2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[BadgersandBlues]

I'm comfortable saying that Buch will never be as good at center as he is on the wing, but I don't agree with the apparent consensus opinion that he has been a disaster at center. We've outscored teams 8 to 5 with him on the ice at 5 on 5 and his underlying metrics aren't too far below what they've been the last couple seasons. I think he's been an adequate (or below average) #2 center. That's far less than what he is as a winger and it isn't remotely good enough for team success when you don't have a #1 center.

But I'm honestly not sure what more can be reasonably expected out of him without Thomas in the lineup. I also don't think that moving him back to wing right now would lead to better team results. I expect that would improve his game, but it would also crater the play of whoever slides into the role he is vacating.

I think he's going to have to eat it and play center for another 40+ games. I don't think that means we are hoping that he can grow and become a long term center option. I still think that the long term plan for him (and the reason for the extension) is for him to either play on the wing with Thomas or Dvorsky as this team is actualizing around the on-their-way youth. And I'm not worried about his ability to play that role well based on what I've seen from him this year.

I couldn't disagree more. He's on a massive PDO bender to start the season, sitting at 1.048 after 11 games (As a reminder, 1.000 is average). He has the 5th best 5v5 save % and the 4th best shooting % on the team. His xGF% is under 45%. He has massively outscored his xGF and he's come in under his xGA - plus his faceoff numbers are putrid. I don't disagree that if we moved him to wing we'd be better off, but he's not even an adequte 2C atm.

 

[Celtic Note]

We certainly have issues with the bottom 6, and guys like Texier and Schenn should be better because they are middle 6 players. At the same time, they are probably meeting realistic expectations for where they are at now as players. If they were preforming better, they'd be exceeding expectations. Guys like Kyrou and Buchnevich need to be better, Buch has sort of an excuse because he's not a center. After a hot start, Kyrou is back to his historical early season struggles. Buchnevich is horrific in the middle, the experiment failed, it needs to end, we are better off with him on the wing and suffering with Schenn or whoever else in a larger role than they should be in.

On a positive note, Broberg continues to be really good.

I don’t disagree that Kyrou needs to step up. I don’t think he is playing poorly though, turnover withstanding. He is really our only threat at the moment with a Buch at center and Thomas on IR. He is easy for the opposition to circle his name as the one forward they need to stop.

Honestly I am not surprised though. We filled up in depth players this off-season and while it was a need to an extent since we are rushing the RE, it wasn’t one of our most prominent issues.

The depth we acquired has some potential. Now is the time if they are going to show it IMO given they all have existing experience.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don’t disagree that Kyrou needs to step up. I don’t think he is playing poorly though, turnover withstanding. He is really our only threat at the moment with a Buch at center and Thomas on IR. He is easy for the opposition to circle as the one forward they need to stop.

Honestly I am not surprised though. We filled up in depth players this off-season and while it was a need to an extent since we are rushing the RE, it wasn’t one of our most prominent issues.

The depth we acquired has some potential. Now is the time if they are going to show it IMO given they all have existing experience.

It's not like he only stopped scoring goals when Thomas got hurt though.

 

[Xerloris]

Kyrou and Buch are not pre-season top 100 players on any respected list I’ve seen. It’s not realistic to expect them to carry this team while the teams best player is out.

I don't expect them to carry us but I would at the very least expect them not to make minor league terrible mistakes like what Kyrou did last night with 3 minutes to go.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Or what about our PP. We are 23rd in the league and Net PP% which factors in short-handed goals against, we are 30th. We also have the fewest PP opportunities per game in the league, so improving PP probably doesn't do much, but we also don't draw enough penalties.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’m starting to think we are much worse than we all thought.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I’m starting to think we are much worse than we all thought.

When you take the engine out of the offense, it's not going to look pretty.


On another note though I'm very excited that they're experimenting with Broberg on the PP. I think this is a really good step to his development that could potentially supplement 15-20 points for him over the length of the season. He's already scoring at a pretty high rate 5v5 although I'm sure it will balance out. But if he sticks on PP1 for the entirety of the year I don't think 50 points is out of the question for him.

 

[Celtic Note]

It's not like he only stopped scoring goals when Thomas got hurt though.

He certainly need to pick it up. He has another level or two of play and he needs to deliver on that. I am not saying that Thomas being out changed his play, rather that it will be harder now than it was with him in the line up. The opposition coaching strategy and line deployment is so much easier now.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I see Perron and ROR as players who drove the play on the Blues. They both played a possession, vision game. We need a couple guys like that.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

This is about the most incisive ESPN NHL Power Rankings that I've read.

Nov. 12, 16 against the Bruins. Goalie goals are a thing of beauty. Goalie fights are a thing of beauty ... in another way. Jordan Binnington has been on the verge of one for years -- and nearly got in one against the Senators this week -- while Bruins netminder Jeremy Swayman also has the fighting spirit, as one might say.

 

[aceoutdoor]

Looking back. I'm pretty happy Krug declined both trades these past 2 offseasons. If we got either Sanheim or Fowler I don't see any way we would have been able to get Broberg.

Thanks for the comment. How would having trading for Sanheim keep us from offer sheeting Broberg? Cap reasons, draft picks gone etc?

 

[Blanick]

So it looks like the Blues are going to go back with Schenn as the #2 C. I really don't like this but with Thomas being out it is probably the best we can do. Honestly though I felt like Holloway did pretty well at center in the Philly game. I know its difficult because Thomas is out until Christmas but to me we have to get Buchnevich back to the wing.

The best version of Buch is the winger Buch, we are seriously limiting his potential at center. Again with Thomas out it is unlikely he gets put back anytime soon. I think we should give Holloway a longer look at center as I feel he plays a pretty good 200ft game. If it was up to me I would run these lines until Thomas is back.

Buchnevich - Holloway - Kyrou
Texier - Schenn - Neighbours
Saad - Sundqvist - Bolduc*
Toropchenko - Faksa - Walker

Replace Bolduc with Joseph when he is ready to return and send Bolduc down to build chemistry with Dvorsky and build confidence for NHL call ups at the end of the year.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Replace Bolduc with Joseph when he is ready to return and send Bolduc down to build chemistry with Dvorsky and build confidence for NHL call ups at the end of the year.

I disagree with this part. I could be wrong, but I am confident Bolduc's adaptability will win the day and he will adjust.

 

[Blanick]

I disagree with this part. I could be wrong, but I am confident Bolduc's adaptability will win the day and he will adjust.

I don't think Bolduc has played poorly, I just feel like their is another level and with the constant line shuffling he is struggling to find that level and confidence might start dipping if he doesn't put some pucks in the back of the net soon. To me its more about sending him down where we know he can produce to not only build confidence but having him play side by side with Dvorsky to build chemistry. It would also be a benefit to Dvorsky to play with a NHL caliber talent. Just thinking long term because Thomas being injured was worst case scenario and I think by the time he comes back we will be in too deep a hole to climb out.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I don't think Bolduc has played poorly, I just feel like their is another level and with the constant line shuffling he is struggling to find that level and confidence might start dipping if he doesn't put some pucks in the back of the net soon. To me its more about sending him down where we know he can produce to not only build confidence but having him play side by side with Dvorsky to build chemistry. It would also be a benefit to Dvorsky to play with a NHL caliber talent. Just thinking long term because Thomas being injured was worst case scenario and I think by the time he comes back we will be in too deep a hole to climb out.

Yes, it's the line shuffling and our discordant lineups and Bannister's ineptitude. Banny is okay, but may be a tad rigid. It is also a flawed roster no matter how much we love the additions. The flaws are glaring now, as if they were not before.

Long-term, this might be a lost season and sending down Bolduc to score and have fun playing hockey sounds like a great idea. I'm flexible when it comes to this stuff. Everything sounds good to me.

 

[LGB]

IMO Bolduc is just too good to send down. He isn’t lighting up the soreboard, but he legitimately might be our best checking forward. I like the plays he’s making in the offensive zone too.

 

[Blanick]

Yes, it's the line shuffling and our discordant lineups and Bannister's ineptitude. Banny is okay, but may be a tad rigid. It is also a flawed roster no matter how much we love the additions. The flaws are glaring now, as if they were not before.

Long-term, this might be a lost season and sending down Bolduc to score and have fun playing hockey sounds like a great idea. I'm flexible when it comes to this stuff. Everything sounds good to me.

I mean I don't place blame fully on Bannister even though I don't think he is right guy at this point in the Blues timeline. The bigger issue I see is we only have 1 top 6 center and he is hurt. Forcing Buch into the center role was a fools errand. Buch performs at his best when he is on the wing, it is just fact at this point. I would be willing to bet that a Buch-Holloway-Kyrou line would perform better than a Holloway-Buch-Kyrou line simply because Buch is much more effective at the wing.

 

[LGB]

I mean I don't place blame fully on Bannister even though I don't think he is right guy at this point in the Blues timeline. The bigger issue I see is we only have 1 top 6 center and he is hurt. Forcing Buch into the center role was a fools errand. Buch performs at his best when he is on the wing, it is just fact at this point. I would be willing to bet that a Buch-Holloway-Kyrou line would perform better than a Holloway-Buch-Kyrou line simply because Buch is much more effective at the wing.

I like the idea of that line. Sunny at 3C is gross but what are you gonna do.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I mean I don't place blame fully on Bannister even though I don't think he is right guy at this point in the Blues timeline. The bigger issue I see is we only have 1 top 6 center and he is hurt. Forcing Buch into the center role was a fools errand. Buch performs at his best when he is on the wing, it is just fact at this point. I would be willing to bet that a Buch-Holloway-Kyrou line would perform better than a Holloway-Buch-Kyrou line simply because Buch is much more effective at the wing.

Same. I don’t either. Banny is in a poorish situation.

His perceived rigidity could be a strength of vision.

 

[PocketNines]

Thanks for the comment. How would having trading for Sanheim keep us from offer sheeting Broberg? Cap reasons, draft picks gone etc?

As an Armstrong observer, I think LM is right they would not have made this move if they got Sanheim in his prime 12 months earlier. Not for cap reasons or draft pick reasons but just general comfort with the left side having a known quantity taking minutes over there

 

[PocketNines]

I'm sure Bolduc has a curve but his timeline in getting there is not helping the Blues win games. He definitely tries though, you can see him trying. He's not that skilled, relative to the league, is all. I don't see anything in him where I think, oh just let him get that rolling, let him get confidence in that. He has a decent shot but it's not accurate. He's going to have to adapt and contribute bottom 6 attributes if he wants an NHL career

 

[Linkens Mastery]

As an Armstrong observer, I think LM is right they would not have made this move if they got Sanheim in his prime 12 months earlier. Not for cap reasons or draft pick reasons but just general comfort with the left side having a known quantity taking minutes over there

Basically this, I don't see the Blues going out and throwing a Offer-sheet when we have Sanheim and Leddy in the top 4. While we still wouldn't have a #1 D we would be in a much better place than we were this past offseason with Leddy, Suter, POJ, and Perunovich.

 

[stl76]

I don't think Bolduc has played poorly, I just feel like their is another level and with the constant line shuffling he is struggling to find that level and confidence might start dipping if he doesn't put some pucks in the back of the net soon. To me its more about sending him down where we know he can produce to not only build confidence but having him play side by side with Dvorsky to build chemistry. It would also be a benefit to Dvorsky to play with a NHL caliber talent. Just thinking long term because Thomas being injured was worst case scenario and I think by the time he comes back we will be in too deep a hole to climb out.

Wouldn't be upset if Bolduc gets sent down to build confidence/chemistry but not sure it would be best for him at this point. He is a legit NHL player right now IMO, just not a top 6 wing yet. I think he needs to figure out/adjust to the pace of the NHL and get better at finding soft spots in the ozone. If he can consistently find space like this to get his shot off then we will have a top 6 winger on our hands:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1778946936042566061

IMO Bolduc is just too good to send down. He isn’t lighting up the soreboard, but he legitimately might be our best checking forward. I like the plays he’s making in the offensive zone too.

Pretty much how I see it as well. It's almost like Bolduc is trying to focus so much on the small details of the game and the checking/defensively responsible side of things that he is sacrificing offense. I'm still hopeful that once that part of his game becomes second nature, the offense will come.

I'm sure Bolduc has a curve but his timeline in getting there is not helping the Blues win games. He definitely tries though, you can see him trying. He's not that skilled, relative to the league, is all. I don't see anything in him where I think, oh just let him get that rolling, let him get confidence in that. He has a decent shot but it's not accurate. He's going to have to adapt and contribute bottom 6 attributes if he wants an NHL career

Certainly possible Bolduc will never turn the corner into a top 6 scorer and will have to adapt to a checking role to grind out a NHL career. I'm not ready to say he's not that skilled relative to the rest of the league tho.

Obviously his shot is good but it's not just his shot for me. I've seen him score a lot of breakaway goals tucking the puck 5 hole like this below. That sort of goal requires a lot of confidence, smarts, and skill. I don't think most bottom 6ers could do this:

Bolduc backhands opening goal | NHL.com

CGY@STL: Bolduc tucks a backhand home for game's opening goal

www.nhl.com

 

[sfvega]

Bolduc doesn't look bad, but we are at the point where I wouldn't hate sending him down. I thought everything from his call up last year to the start of the season showed that he had earned a spot to start the year. He did and they didn't have a quick hook on him. He doesn't look out of place, but he does look less effective than last year. I'd be fine keeping him up, but I'm 100% more ok with sending him down now than at the start of the season. He deserved a chance and he got one.

 

[PocketNines]

Wouldn't be upset if Bolduc gets sent down to build confidence/chemistry but not sure it would be best for him at this point. He is a legit NHL player right now IMO, just not a top 6 wing yet. I think he needs to figure out/adjust to the pace of the NHL and get better at finding soft spots in the ozone. If he can consistently find space like this to get his shot off then we will have a top 6 winger on our hands:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1778946936042566061

Pretty much how I see it as well. It's almost like Bolduc is trying to focus so much on the small details of the game and the checking/defensively responsible side of things that he is sacrificing offense. I'm still hopeful that once that part of his game becomes second nature, the offense will come.


Certainly possible Bolduc will never turn the corner into a top 6 scorer and will have to adapt to a checking role to grind out a NHL career. I'm not ready to say he's not that skilled relative to the rest of the league tho.

Obviously his shot is good but it's not just his shot for me. I've seen him score a lot of breakaway goals tucking the puck 5 hole like this below. That sort of goal requires a lot of confidence, smarts, and skill. I don't think most bottom 6ers could do this:

Bolduc backhands opening goal | NHL.com

CGY@STL: Bolduc tucks a backhand home for game's opening goal

www.nhl.com

He has a niftiness to his hands, I just wonder if he can make plays like that often enough to where it's a prize we have on our roster as opposed to something that pops up occasionally