2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[Stealth JD]

Blues upcoming schedule looks daunting without Thomas. If they can't get 2 points versus Philly, the tank-a-thon may be on. Obviously, as shown in Toronto, they could win against anyone on any given night and the goalies are more than capable of stealing games they deserve to lose, but heading into the next month of matchups I don't know how many games the Blues would be the favored team to win.

vs. Utah, @ Buffalo, vs. San Jose, @ Islanders - maybe the Blues would be favored...but they've also got a tendency to play down to (or below) their opponent so they could very well be joining Philly, Pittsburgh, Chicago and San Jose in being several games under .500 by the end of the month. Blues have 15 games between now and the end of November. Winning 7-8 of those seems formidable.

 

[Brian39]

No big moves.
Saad- 2nd and B level prospect would be the ask
Leddy- 2nd and B level prospect would be the ask
Suter- Ask for a 2nd, expect a 3rd
Faksa- ask for a 2nd, expect a 3rd
KK/Perunovich- throw aways to open spots for some of the kids

I'm not sure why we would be setting the ask at anything less than a 1st for Saad or Leddy. Retention is the expected norm for deadline deals. If we're shopping him at the deadline and not the summer, then the assumption is that we are eating money and a retention slot for the rest of this year and next year.

Saad is a damn near lock for 20 goals every year and he does that without needing top unit PP time or offensively skewed deployment. His 21 even strength goals last year was tied for 43rd in the league. He's a vet with 2 Cup rings who can play decent defense.

Leddy has played some of the best hockey of his career in his time in St. Louis. He returned a 2nd+ the two times he was traded in 2021/22, which was the final year of his deal. Even if you don't believe his St. Louis play has increased his raw value, he has an additional year at a noticeably better AAV than he did back then. We'll see how he looks after returning from injury, but if he looks bad/limited then why sell low at this deadline?

I get that teams very well might not give us a 1st for either/both, but we have the ability to hold them and try again on draft day when the 2nd rounder you get could be pick 33-48 instead of pick 49-64.

 

[Mike Liut]

No big moves.
Saad- 2nd and B level prospect would be the ask
Leddy- 2nd and B level prospect would be the ask
Suter- Ask for a 2nd, expect a 3rd
Faksa- ask for a 2nd, expect a 3rd
KK/Perunovich- throw aways to open spots for some of the kids

I’d be down with those moves.

 

[Stealth JD]

Faksa is f***ing terrible. So many blind passes to nobody (unless you count the other team). I’d be shocked if he brought back anything…Dallas paid for him to go away and it looks like a wise move that the Blues should’ve been skeptical of at the time.

Between Texier, Schenn, Faksa, Toropchenko, Sundqvist, Walker, Kapanen & Bolduc there aren’t enough healthy scratches to go around for Bannister. Somebody’s got to play. 15 points across 64 games with lousy defense and poor puck management. Fire every one of these damn guys into the sun for all I care.

At least Bolduc is young and has upside. And the best I can say about Kapanen is that he’s not actively hurting you (when he contributes nothing). The opportunity cost is irrelevant because every other guy who is a consideration for his minutes is somehow worse. I love the Aussie, he’s got more heart than most of this roster, but the fact that he’s getting regular minutes is a big damn red flag.

I know we all hated last years bottom six…but this one ain’t much better. Joseph and Saad are fine, if they’re playing on the third line where they belong but we’ve got too many guys playing too high up the lineup out of necessity because the top-6 is a wasteland of qualified talent. Woof.

 

[Reality Czech]

Faksa is f***ing terrible. So many blind passes to nobody (unless you count the other team). I’d be shocked if he brought back anything…Dallas paid for him to go away and it looks like a wise move that the Blues should’ve been skeptical of at the time.

Between Texier, Schenn, Faksa, Toropchenko, Sundqvist, Walker, Kapanen & Bolduc there aren’t enough healthy scratches to go around for Bannister. Somebody’s got to play. 15 points across 64 games with lousy defense and poor puck management. Fire every one of these damn guys into the sun for all I care.

At least Bolduc is young and has upside. And the best I can say about Kapanen is that he’s not actively hurting you (when he contributes nothing). The opportunity cost is irrelevant because every other guy who is a consideration for his minutes is somehow worse. I love the Aussie, he’s got more heart than most of this roster, but the fact that he’s getting regular minutes is a big damn red flag.

I know we all hated last years bottom six…but this one ain’t much better. Joseph and Saad are fine, if they’re playing on the third line where they belong but we’ve got too many guys playing too high up the lineup out of necessity because the top-6 is a wasteland of qualified talent. Woof.

Thank you for joining for this week's episode of overreaction theatre lol.

Gotta love it when fans blame everyone BUT the top players who are earning the big bucks. If our top stars could have contributed at least one goal, then there's a good chance we at least get a point last night. But no, it's always the role players to blame I guess. Buch and Kyrou have been disappointing since they don't have Thomas feeding them great passes all the time. Buch hasn't scored in 8 games and Kyrou 10. That's shameful.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We certainly have issues with the bottom 6, and guys like Texier and Schenn should be better because they are middle 6 players. At the same time, they are probably meeting realistic expectations for where they are at now as players. If they were preforming better, they'd be exceeding expectations. Guys like Kyrou and Buchnevich need to be better, Buch has sort of an excuse because he's not a center. After a hot start, Kyrou is back to his historical early season struggles. Buchnevich is horrific in the middle, the experiment failed, it needs to end, we are better off with him on the wing and suffering with Schenn or whoever else in a larger role than they should be in.

On a positive note, Broberg continues to be really good.

 

[BrokenFace]

Both the top 6 and AND the bottom 6 are problems, even with Thomas healthy. At this point I'm worrying Buch's contract is going to feel like Schenn's way sooner than it should. It would be panic to think that already, but he wasn't quite as effective last year than he was in previous years, and now he's got this goaless streak.

In short, everyone be more like Broberg.

 

[TheOrganist]

We'll see how the year plays out but it's a fairly easy argument to make that the Blues would've been much better served in the long run by trading Buch at the deadline to a contender who would gotten two playoff runs out of him while simultaneously allowing the Blues to get worse which would've increased their draft position...Buch is a really good complimentary piece on a good team but what purpose is he going to serve during the first half of his new deal other than preventing the Blues from drafting 3-5 spots higher than they otherwise would? This is a franchise nowhere close to contending.

 

[Stealth JD]

Thank you for joining for this week's episode of overreaction theatre lol.

Gotta love it when fans blame everyone BUT the top players who are earning the big bucks. If our top stars could have contributed at least one goal, then there's a good chance we at least get a point last night. But no, it's always the role players to blame I guess. Buch and Kyrou have been disappointing since they don't have Thomas feeding them great passes all the time. Buch hasn't scored in 8 games and Kyrou 10. That's shameful.

There's plenty of blame to go around the top-6. But there are really only TWO top-6 guys to blame. Kyrou is at least getting his chances. Buchnevich is a mess...but I attribute that to him not being put in position to succeed. It's really not a surprise that neither of those guys are scoring without Thomas. Don't know what the excuse is for the rest of the roster. It's fine if they're not scoring, so long as they're playing responsibly. But they aren't. The veterans like Faksa, Schenn and Texier should have higher expectations than the AHL'ers and kids, like Walker and Bolduc. This roster is so bad. Not sure how that's an over-reaction when I said it before the season started. It's simply playing out as anticipated.

 

[LGB]

I think Bolduc is playing well.

At this point I'm worrying Buch's contract is going to feel like Schenn's way sooner than it should. It would be panic to think that already, but he wasn't quite as effective last year than he was in previous years, and now he's got this goaless streak.

Hopefully he'll look like old Buch again when we put him on the wing, but I'm also worried.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And I remember telling people that last season, a lot actually went right. If either of the goalies, Thomas, or Parayko got hurt, this team was always going to be screwed. The only way this team was going to be as good as last season or better was those 3 pillars remaining as strong as last season, and improvement from the rest.

This season is going to simply be about seeing if Broberg, Neighbours, Holloway, and Bolduc can develop. Broberg has seemed to hit that next level, can Neighbours and Holloway? Can Bolduc make progress that you would expect from a rookie. Can Dvorsky and Snuggerud show that they are on the path where they can join the team at the end of the season or next season? We have a long and frustrating season ahead of us, but there are some small things that we can find positives in.

 

[Reality Czech]

There's plenty of blame to go around the top-6. But there are really only TWO top-6 guys to blame. Kyrou is at least getting his chances. Buchnevich is a mess...but I attribute that to him not being put in position to succeed. It's really not a surprise that neither of those guys are scoring without Thomas. Don't know what the excuse is for the rest of the roster. It's fine if they're not scoring, so long as they're playing responsibly. But they aren't. The veterans like Faksa, Schenn and Texier should have higher expectations than the AHL'ers and kids, like Walker and Bolduc. This roster is so bad. Not sure how that's an over-reaction when I said it before the season started. It's simply playing out as anticipated.

It's funny how quickly opinions can change around here. Just a week or two ago people were pretty optimistic about the team, but three ugly losses later everyone is acting like we're one of the worst teams in the league. All teams go through ups and downs and obviously these past 3 games have been a pretty big "down."

Despite how badly they've played lately, it's still a team that's one game under .500. think everyone expected this team to be average at best, and we weren't looking THAT bad before all the injuries. Faksa is fine as a 4th line center but asking him to play a 3rd line role isn't gonna work. I'd say Bolduc has been more of a disappointment to me than Faksa, because this was supposed to be his breakout season. He looks like a dime a dozen bottom sixer.

As for Kyrou/Buch, I don't want any excuses. A team's best players have to lead the way and they should be able to make an impact with or without Thomas. If your best players aren't doing their job, then it's gonna be hard to win games regardless of how well or badly the bottom 6 is. It's great that Kyrou has had chances, but I feel like deja vu with this guy not being able to finish prime scoring chances.

Schenn has been a big disappointment as well, so I would put more blame on him and the "top" two forwards than anyone else. Allowing 2 goals against the Flyers despite the misplays should put you in a good position to win, but someone has got to score some friggin goals.

 

[Stealth JD]

It's funny how quickly opinions can change around here. Just a week or two ago people were pretty optimistic about the team, but three ugly losses later everyone is acting like we're one of the worst teams in the league. All teams go through ups and downs and obviously these past 3 games have been a pretty big "down."

It's almost as if there are multiple posters with varying opinions, rather than individual posters bouncing back and forth between optimistic and pessimistic. There are a few of the latter, but I don't know often you actually see people changing their opinions on a game-to-game basis. It's more likely that when things are going well the good is discussed, and when things are going poorly, the bad is discussed.

Even posters who think this team is lousy can celebrate the wins and want more of them, while still being cognizant of the fact that this club will likely lose more than they win moving forward due to the plethora of problems with the roster. And when the team loses, even the optimists can see what's not working and why the team isn't winning every game and which players need to pick up the slack. I think the board is less schizophrenic than you're implying and you're simply using a broad brush to paint an entire fanbase.

 

[PocketNines]

Thank you for joining for this week's episode of overreaction theatre lol.

Gotta love it when fans blame everyone BUT the top players who are earning the big bucks. If our top stars could have contributed at least one goal, then there's a good chance we at least get a point last night. But no, it's always the role players to blame I guess. Buch and Kyrou have been disappointing since they don't have Thomas feeding them great passes all the time. Buch hasn't scored in 8 games and Kyrou 10. That's shameful.

and when when someone points to Kyrou who is a top paid player then you whine and pule about how people don't have integrity because they pick "whipping boys"

you defend everything Armstrong does reflexively except for two or three things you select

odd how those criticisms don't spring from an "agenda" because they're yours

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Kyrou and Buchnevich need to be much much f***ing better. Kyrou only has points in 5 out of 11 games and Buchnevich only has points in 3 out of 11. Until those two start putting up points we are not going to win games.

 

[PocketNines]

Kyrou and Buchnevich need to be much much f***ing better. Kyrou only has points in 5 out of 11 games and Buchnevich only has points in 3 out of 11. Until those two start putting up points we are not going to win games.

They don't drive the play. Buchnevich is good enough to be a Cup team's 5th best forward and Kyrou is good enough to be its 6th best forward. Without Thomas, non-accidental offense is not happening, they can't do it.

The issue is, Armstrong is just finding it out now

 

[TheOrganist]

Kyrou and Buchnevich need to be much much f***ing better. Kyrou only has points in 5 out of 11 games and Buchnevich only has points in 3 out of 11. Until those two start putting up points we are not going to win games.

Kyrou and Buch are not pre-season top 100 players on any respected list I’ve seen. It’s not realistic to expect them to carry this team while the teams best player is out.

 

[Reality Czech]

It's almost as if there are multiple posters with varying opinions, rather than individual posters bouncing back and forth between optimistic and pessimistic. There are a few of the latter, but I don't know often you actually see people changing their opinions on a game-to-game basis. It's more likely that when things are going well the good is discussed, and when things are going poorly, the bad is discussed.

Even posters who think this team is lousy can celebrate the wins and want more of them, while still being cognizant of the fact that this club will likely lose more than they win moving forward due to the plethora of problems with the roster. And when the team loses, even the optimists can see what's not working and why the team isn't winning every game and which players need to pick up the slack. I think the board is less schizophrenic than you're implying and you're simply using a broad brush to paint an entire fanbase.

Fair enough, I'm not taking notes on who's saying what. But I didn't see anyone complaining about Faksa or the bottom 6 until we had a 3 game losing streak and now all of a sudden they suck. I think everyone knew this would be a bumpy season based on our roster, and most teams would struggle when your best player and 1C gets injured, especially when it was our thinnest position to begin with.

That's why I try to be neither an optimist or pessimist but rather a realist. It's a long season with a lot of ups and downs and I don't see the point of getting emotional over short stretches of good or bad play. What does bother me is long term trends or players not living up to expectations, and we've got a few players to blame for that.

 

[Reality Czech]

Kyrou and Buch are not pre-season top 100 players on any respected list I’ve seen. It’s not realistic to expect them to carry this team while the teams best player is out.

No one is expecting them to carry us to victory every night, but I can't imagine anyone thinking their play of late is good enough. This is their chance to show if they are capable of being leaders or if they're just complimentary pieces and it's looking a lot more like the latter right now.

If they aren't top 100 players then why are they being paid like top 100 players? (Kyrou 63rd highest this year and Buch will jump into the top 100 next year)

 

[Brian39]

I'm comfortable saying that Buch will never be as good at center as he is on the wing, but I don't agree with the apparent consensus opinion that he has been a disaster at center. We've outscored teams 8 to 5 with him on the ice at 5 on 5 and his underlying metrics aren't too far below what they've been the last couple seasons. I think he's been an adequate (or below average) #2 center. That's far less than what he is as a winger and it isn't remotely good enough for team success when you don't have a #1 center.

But I'm honestly not sure what more can be reasonably expected out of him without Thomas in the lineup. I also don't think that moving him back to wing right now would lead to better team results. I expect that would improve his game, but it would also crater the play of whoever slides into the role he is vacating.

I think he's going to have to eat it and play center for another 40+ games. I don't think that means we are hoping that he can grow and become a long term center option. I still think that the long term plan for him (and the reason for the extension) is for him to either play on the wing with Thomas or Dvorsky as this team is actualizing around the on-their-way youth. And I'm not worried about his ability to play that role well based on what I've seen from him this year.

 

[Brian39]

And I remember telling people that last season, a lot actually went right. If either of the goalies, Thomas, or Parayko got hurt, this team was always going to be screwed. The only way this team was going to be as good as last season or better was those 3 pillars remaining as strong as last season, and improvement from the rest.

This season is going to simply be about seeing if Broberg, Neighbours, Holloway, and Bolduc can develop. Broberg has seemed to hit that next level, can Neighbours and Holloway? Can Bolduc make progress that you would expect from a rookie. Can Dvorsky and Snuggerud show that they are on the path where they can join the team at the end of the season or next season? We have a long and frustrating season ahead of us, but there are some small things that we can find positives in.

This aligns with my recollection of the offseason/camp consensus around here. I think even the most optimistic voices agreed that losing Thomas for an extended period would be a full-blown disaster for our chances of success in 2024/25.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This aligns with my recollection of the offseason/camp consensus around here. I think even the most optimistic voices agreed that losing Thomas for an extended period would be a full-blown disaster for our chances of success in 2024/25.

Right, not trying to say that I was the voice of reason, I think almost everyone would have agreed. I think some had high expectations for guys like Texier though, remember a bunch of people insisting he should play center.

My comment is probably more directed at people that thought the acquisitions had the potential for making a significant impact, and that thought process underestimated how much went right with the main drivers of the success.

 

[Mike Liut]

We have to come to the realization we are 2-3 years away from competing for even a playoff spot. And we better hope Dvorsky, Snuggs, Lindstein pan out

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Looking back. I'm pretty happy Krug declined both trades these past 2 offseasons. If we got either Sanheim or Fowler I don't see any way we would have been able to get Broberg.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Looking back. I'm pretty happy Krug declined both trades these past 2 offseasons. If we got either Sanheim or Fowler I don't see any way we would have been able to get Broberg.

It's still plausible that we could have. Definitely happy with the current situation though and have no regrets with how things turned out.