2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[bleedblue1223]

This has sort of been discussed in a few threads, so I'll just put it here.

With Lindstein and Jiricek, I do think we have a decent chance of them developing into a good top pair. Lindstein looks very good so far, seems to standout when playing against his peer group, and hopefully he continues to make advancements at the pro level. I'll be even more encouraged with him if his production improves next season. With Jiricek, I'm making an assumption that we were heavily scouting him for awhile before his injury. Pro teams scout those players years in advance and then heavily for the upcoming draft as soon as the current draft concludes. We knew we'd be drafting somewhat high in the 2024 draft during the 22/23 season, so I think it's safe to say we watched a lot of Jiricek while he was healthy, and he didn't drop on our board.

If the scouts are right on Jiricek and he develops, he has upside of being top 4 quality in 2-3 years. This isn't a stylistic or upside comparison, but guys like Miller and Harley have made that development from recent drafts from recent draft positions, Guhle looks like he's on that path. Those guys also have a handful of dmen that busted that were drafted around them. My point isn't that our future is solved with these 2, and maybe it's a captain obvious point of, if the scouts are right, then our future is set, but I do think we should acknowledge the upside in him.

And I do hope we get Jiricek to go the CHL route. Playing against pros at a young age can be a big benefit, I think he'd benefit more by getting used to NA ice, and developing his game against his peer group, allowing him to develop the offensive side of his game a bit more. He's not like his brother where he can step into the AHL immediately, even moreso with coming off his injury, but I think juniors would be a wise route to take.

To contend, we will likely need more star power. That can come from the prospects we have all hitting their potential, but since that has a low chance of happening, it can simply come via trade when we are pushing to contend. I'm honestly not too worried about this. If the rebuild works and we become a 100 point regular season team that needs more star power to get over the hump in the playoffs, I'll assume that we'll have the assets to make that type of trade.

 

[Xerloris]

This has sort of been discussed in a few threads, so I'll just put it here.

With Lindstein and Jiricek, I do think we have a decent chance of them developing into a good top pair. Lindstein looks very good so far, seems to standout when playing against his peer group, and hopefully he continues to make advancements at the pro level. I'll be even more encouraged with him if his production improves next season. With Jiricek, I'm making an assumption that we were heavily scouting him for awhile before his injury. Pro teams scout those players years in advance and then heavily for the upcoming draft as soon as the current draft concludes. We knew we'd be drafting somewhat high in the 2024 draft during the 22/23 season, so I think it's safe to say we watched a lot of Jiricek while he was healthy, and he didn't drop on our board.

If the scouts are right on Jiricek and he develops, he has upside of being top 4 quality in 2-3 years. This isn't a stylistic or upside comparison, but guys like Miller and Harley have made that development from recent drafts from recent draft positions, Guhle looks like he's on that path. Those guys also have a handful of dmen that busted that were drafted around them. My point isn't that our future is solved with these 2, and maybe it's a captain obvious point of, if the scouts are right, then our future is set, but I do think we should acknowledge the upside in him.

And I do hope we get Jiricek to go the CHL route. Playing against pros at a young age can be a big benefit, I think he'd benefit more by getting used to NA ice, and developing his game against his peer group, allowing him to develop the offensive side of his game a bit more. He's not like his brother where he can step into the AHL immediately, even moreso with coming off his injury, but I think juniors would be a wise route to take.

To contend, we will likely need more star power. That can come from the prospects we have all hitting their potential, but since that has a low chance of happening, it can simply come via trade when we are pushing to contend. I'm honestly not too worried about this. If the rebuild works and we become a 100 point regular season team that needs more star power to get over the hump in the playoffs, I'll assume that we'll have the assets to make that type of trade.

just need to build a strong team with a good foundation and then tweak it a little with some high end talent via trade.

 

[Celtic Note]

This has sort of been discussed in a few threads, so I'll just put it here.

With Lindstein and Jiricek, I do think we have a decent chance of them developing into a good top pair. Lindstein looks very good so far, seems to standout when playing against his peer group, and hopefully he continues to make advancements at the pro level. I'll be even more encouraged with him if his production improves next season. With Jiricek, I'm making an assumption that we were heavily scouting him for awhile before his injury. Pro teams scout those players years in advance and then heavily for the upcoming draft as soon as the current draft concludes. We knew we'd be drafting somewhat high in the 2024 draft during the 22/23 season, so I think it's safe to say we watched a lot of Jiricek while he was healthy, and he didn't drop on our board.

If the scouts are right on Jiricek and he develops, he has upside of being top 4 quality in 2-3 years. This isn't a stylistic or upside comparison, but guys like Miller and Harley have made that development from recent drafts from recent draft positions, Guhle looks like he's on that path. Those guys also have a handful of dmen that busted that were drafted around them. My point isn't that our future is solved with these 2, and maybe it's a captain obvious point of, if the scouts are right, then our future is set, but I do think we should acknowledge the upside in him.

And I do hope we get Jiricek to go the CHL route. Playing against pros at a young age can be a big benefit, I think he'd benefit more by getting used to NA ice, and developing his game against his peer group, allowing him to develop the offensive side of his game a bit more. He's not like his brother where he can step into the AHL immediately, even moreso with coming off his injury, but I think juniors would be a wise route to take.

To contend, we will likely need more star power. That can come from the prospects we have all hitting their potential, but since that has a low chance of happening, it can simply come via trade when we are pushing to contend. I'm honestly not too worried about this. If the rebuild works and we become a 100 point regular season team that needs more star power to get over the hump in the playoffs, I'll assume that we'll have the assets to make that type of trade.

Lindstein and Jiricek will need to be more than top 4 guys. They need to be top pair players, with one being a #1D. I like both prospects quite a lot, but that seems like is the absolute pinnacle of their potential.

At forward I like a great deal of our players, particularly given where they were drafted. Our scouting staff has done a pretty fantastic job of getting great value for where our picks have landed (imagine what they could do with actual high picks). BUT, the system still lacks top level talent. We have very good talent. There are plenty of guys I am excited to see play. I don’t however see guys I am confident projects high enough that they would ever fall into elite company.

If we are not going to have an elite D, then we need elite forwards. If we are not going to have elite forwards, then we need elite D. To date, I am not seeing anyone on the team nor in the system that projects as an elite player. Maybe one of Thomas or Kyrou can make a big step, but I am not super confident in that. I think Thomas is pretty close to the player he will become. Kyrou has room to grow, but unless his offense reaches the next level, it might be a stretch.

Finding that player via trade seems like a low probability. And finding that trade without giving up a ton a value is even lower.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Lindstein and Jiricek will need to be more than top 4 guys. They need to be top pair players, with one being a #1D. I like both prospects quite a lot, but that seems like is the absolute pinnacle of their potential.

At forward I like a great deal of our players, particularly given where they were drafted. Our scouting staff has done a pretty fantastic job of getting great value for where our picks have landed (imagine what they could do with actual high picks). BUT, the system still lacks top level talent. We have very good talent. There are plenty of guys I am excited to see play. I don’t however see guys I am confident projects high enough that they would ever fall into elite company.

If we are not going to have an elite D, then we need elite forwards. If we are not going to have elite forwards, then we need elite D. To date, I am not seeing anyone on the team nor in the system that projects as an elite player. Maybe one of Thomas or Kyrou can make a big step, but I am not super confident in that. I think Thomas is pretty close to the player he will become. Kyrou has room to grow, but unless his offense reaches the next level, it might be a stretch.

Finding that player via trade seems like a low probability. And finding that trade without giving up a ton a value is even lower.

That's what I'm saying. I think both have a path to quickly being top 4 caliber, I do think Lindstein has top pair upside, and I think Jiricek certainly does. It's not unreasonable for someone drafted in Jiricek's spot to be top pair caliber at an early age. If he develops like Miller or Harley, our rebuild will be in very good shape IMO. I'll also admit that's no guarantee. When I say top 4, I mean being able to play 20+ in that D+3 season. Can Jiricek be that type of player in year D+3, and then take that top guy spot.

Plenty of teams are able to make those trades though. It won't be easy to make this upcoming core into a contender and then a team that actually wins it all, but that's also true of any team, regardless of how they are building.

 

[Celtic Note]

That's what I'm saying. I think both have a path to quickly being top 4 caliber, I do think Lindstein has top pair upside, and I think Jiricek certainly does. It's not unreasonable for someone drafted in Jiricek's spot to be top pair caliber at an early age. If he develops like Miller or Harley, our rebuild will be in very good shape IMO. I'll also admit that's no guarantee. When I say top 4, I mean being able to play 20+ in that D+3 season. Can Jiricek be that type of player in year D+3, and then take that top guy spot.

Plenty of teams are able to make those trades though. It won't be easy to make this upcoming core into a contender and then a team that actually wins it all, but that's also true of any team, regardless of how they are building.

I will preface this by saying, I think most people would say I do not set the bar low for expectations. My standards are high. Higher than most.

But, I feel like even a 20+ minute a night @ D+3 expectation (maybe hope is a better term?) is a pretty lofty one. A most typical path for that quick of an arrival probably would have to assume something like: 1 year in an amateur/ college / European pro league, 1 year of NHL acclimation and in your second pro year being able to play 20 minutes per night. That’s a Petro quickness of assention.

That means Lindstein likely needs to make the NHL team this year in his case. And then he needs to follow that up by playing a level similar to Faulk in his second season. That’s pretty ambitious IMO.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I will preface this by saying, I think most people would say I do not set the bar low for expectations. My standards are high. Higher than most.

But, I feel like even a 20+ minute a night @ D+3 expectation (maybe hope is a better term?) is a pretty lofty one. A most typical path for that quick of an arrival probably would have to assume something like: 1 year in an amateur/ college / European pro league, 1 year of NHL acclimation and in your second pro year being able to play 20 minutes per night. That’s a Petro quickness of assention.

That means Lindstein likely needs to make the NHL team this year in his case. And then he needs to follow that up by playing a level similar to Faulk in his second season. That’s pretty ambitious IMO.

It's the path that guys like Miller, Guhle, and McAvoy took. Certainly lofty for Jiricek, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a prospect drafted where he was. And yes, there is a longer list of players drafted in that area that never even make it. I don't have the same expectation for Lindstein btw.

In my view, our rebuild is more or less up to how Jiricek develops. If he hits like some of those guys, I think we'll be fine, we'll have guys for the other spots or be able to acquire them along the way.

 

[Majorityof1]

Life of a Blues fan:
1) Here's my preseason draft rankings I spent hundreds of hours compiling...#27 Jiricek...;
2) Please trade up for Buium, please trade up for Buium;
3) uggh, don't take Jiricek:
4) gross, we took Jiricek;
5) I've been listening topeople around the Blues talk and they say they like ths Jiricek guy;
6) <2 days later> I mean Jiricek is a top pairing D and Lindstein could be too, so our D issues are like almost solved.

<This is an exaggeration meant for humor, and not attacking any one individual>

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know you are directing that at anyone in particular or anyone at all. My view on it, is basically, I still would've preferred Buium, but that I trust our scouts on Jiricek, especially since they spent time watching him prior to his injury. I think his upside is still what it always was, and it's in there with the 6 guys ahead of him, he just has greater downside if his offense doesn't develop like some think it would based on watching him.

I'll also want to reiterate that I don't think Jiricek developing like McAvoy, Miller, etc., the guys around his draft spot that quickly developed into a top pair guy is the likliest outcome or close to the likliest outcome, just that it's a reasonable outcome. I'm also not arguing that Lindstein has the same type of upside.

 

[542365]

Lindstein and Jiricek will need to be more than top 4 guys. They need to be top pair players, with one being a #1D. I like both prospects quite a lot, but that seems like is the absolute pinnacle of their potential.

At forward I like a great deal of our players, particularly given where they were drafted. Our scouting staff has done a pretty fantastic job of getting great value for where our picks have landed (imagine what they could do with actual high picks). BUT, the system still lacks top level talent. We have very good talent. There are plenty of guys I am excited to see play. I don’t however see guys I am confident projects high enough that they would ever fall into elite company.

If we are not going to have an elite D, then we need elite forwards. If we are not going to have elite forwards, then we need elite D. To date, I am not seeing anyone on the team nor in the system that projects as an elite player. Maybe one of Thomas or Kyrou can make a big step, but I am not super confident in that. I think Thomas is pretty close to the player he will become. Kyrou has room to grow, but unless his offense reaches the next level, it might be a stretch.

Finding that player via trade seems like a low probability. And finding that trade without giving up a ton a value is even lower.

We're not going to be bad enough to get to the top of the draft, so we're going to have to rely on building an elite team like the 2019 team. That team didn't have any superstars. ROR was an excellent 2-way center, certainly a 1C, but not an elite 1C. Petro same thing, a 1D, but not an elite one. That's got to be the team we're building because we're not going to get the elite 1C or 1D from the draft more than likely. We have to build a team that has a plethora of very good players and win on depth.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I am curious, how would people here classify a successful re-whatever? Is it Cup or bust? Is it regular season success that at a minimum results in 2nd and 3rd round appearances? If we hit the Backes era level of success, is that successful in your eyes?

 

[SirPaste]

I am curious, how would people here classify a successful re-whatever? Is it Cup or bust? Is it regular season success that at a minimum results in 2nd and 3rd round appearances? If we hit the Backes era level of success, is that successful in your eyes?

I would say yes, obviously the Cup is the goal and that's what the team should be striving for but only one team wins it and they are all trying to do the same thing. I would view the retool as a success as being an actual contender, back to perennial playoff team and making some good runs with at least a WC final or 2.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

After going so long with feeling like we'd never win the big prize then seemingly winning one out of nowhere, I never had this feeling that if we don't win a Cup, Blues hockey has failed me.

I'm at the point in my life where a decade of playoff hockey with 2-3 legitimate WCF runs is good enough to feel satiated.

 

[TheOrganist]

I want a team that is built properly to make realistic runs in the playoffs. Starts from the net out. Armstrong made some terrible investments and miscalculations that have been beaten to death...but at least he hasn't compounded the problem over the last 12-18 months. Legit arguments both ways re: if the team should've bottomed out for two more years but I do see hope on the horizon...but we're talking 2027 in my opinion. The defense will take a long time to rebuild and be playoff contending worthy.

 

[Blueswin]

Lindstein and Jiricek will need to be more than top 4 guys. They need to be top pair players, with one being a #1D. I like both prospects quite a lot, but that seems like is the absolute pinnacle of their potential.

At forward I like a great deal of our players, particularly given where they were drafted. Our scouting staff has done a pretty fantastic job of getting great value for where our picks have landed (imagine what they could do with actual high picks). BUT, the system still lacks top level talent. We have very good talent. There are plenty of guys I am excited to see play. I don’t however see guys I am confident projects high enough that they would ever fall into elite company.

If we are not going to have an elite D, then we need elite forwards. If we are not going to have elite forwards, then we need elite D. To date, I am not seeing anyone on the team nor in the system that projects as an elite player. Maybe one of Thomas or Kyrou can make a big step, but I am not super confident in that. I think Thomas is pretty close to the player he will become. Kyrou has room to grow, but unless his offense reaches the next level, it might be a stretch.

Finding that player via trade seems like a low probability. And finding that trade without giving up a ton a value is even lower.

Great points but who was on the Blues cup winning team that was Elite & please don't say Petro. He was good but was he even our best def. in the cup run?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Great points but who was on the Blues cup winning team that was Elite & please don't say Petro. He was good but was he even our best def. in the cup run?

Yes, he was easily our best defenseman on that run.

 

[Xerloris]

Great points but who was on the Blues cup winning team that was Elite & please don't say Petro. He was good but was he even our best def. in the cup run?

That would be ROR and that would also be defensively, not offensively.

 

[wiscrev]

Yes, he was easily our best defenseman on that run.

IMO, questionable. I think most of the D was about the same. [not a Petro fan as you may guess]

 

[bleedblue1223]

IMO, questionable. I think most of the D was about the same. [not a Petro fan as you may guess]

I could maybe see someone make an argument for Parayko. Crazy to say they were all about the same.

 

[SirPaste]

Yes, he was easily our best defenseman on that run.

I agree and I think a good argument could be made that he deserved to win the Conn Smythe as well, not taking anything away from what ROR did.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I agree and I think a good argument could be made that he deserved to win the Conn Smythe as well, not taking anything away from what ROR did.

It was definitely a Conn Smythe by committee. ROR, Petro, and Binnington all had valid claims.

 

[Celtic Note]

Great points but who was on the Blues cup winning team that was Elite & please don't say Petro. He was good but was he even our best def. in the cup run?

If we cannot say Petro, then there aren’t elite D in the league outside of generational talents. That’s taking the meaning of elite into too constricted of a definition IMO.

I realize Petro isn’t a punishing physical defender so a portion of our fan base knocked him. We also were spoiled with Chopper and Pronger, so maybe there is distortion amongst our fan base as to what an elite defender looks like. I also understand that there are hurt feelings because he left for some fans.

I am not sure where you fall in your assessment of the player and this isn’t meant to put words in your mouth. These are just common reasons he was undervalued/appreciated by some.

Petro was a very talented, cerebral, two-way defenseman who likely will get consideration for the HHoF. He got consideration for the Conn Smyth for our run and won a second Cup in a prominent role for Vegas. So if that doesn’t qualify as elite, then maybe our calibration for assessment is off or there are clear biases at play.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm convinced that Army reads HF and is just trolling a particular poster.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1808534563645178204

 

[Blueston]

If we cannot say Petro, then there aren’t elite D in the league outside of generational talents. That’s taking the meaning of elite into too constricted of a definition IMO.

I realize Petro isn’t a punishing physical defender so a portion of our fan base knocked him. We also were spoiled with Chopper and Pronger, so maybe there is distortion amongst our fan base as to what an elite defender looks like. I also understand that there are hurt feelings because he left for some fans.

I am not sure where you fall in your assessment of the player and this isn’t meant to put words in your mouth. These are just common reasons a he was undervalued/appreciated by some.

Petro was a very talented, cerebral, two-way defenseman who likely will get consideration for the HHoF. He got consideration for the Conn Smyth for our run and won a second Cup in a prominent role for Vegas. So if that doesn’t qualify as elite, then maybe our calibration for assessment is off or there are clear biases at play.

Without getting too deep in the weeds, ROR, Petro, Parayko were I think our top skaters on Cup team with Tank, Schenn, Schwartz, and Jaybo right behind. If we are trying to build something similar- which I think we are- our next core COULD be Thomas, Kyrou, Buchy, Parayko, and then some of our kids (Dvo, Neighbours, Snuggy, Jiricek, and Lindstein, for example). I would think that would mean we need a couple of guys to reach level that Thomas is at and a couple more reach level right behind. It's a big ask that the kids reach the level of our Cup guys, but it's not unreasonable for any individually. And we will be able of course to continue adding in the next few years as we ramp up.

 

[BlueDream]

If we cannot say Petro, then there aren’t elite D in the league outside of generational talents. That’s taking the meaning of elite into too constricted of a definition IMO.

I realize Petro isn’t a punishing physical defender so a portion of our fan base knocked him. We also were spoiled with Chopper and Pronger, so maybe there is distortion amongst our fan base as to what an elite defender looks like. I also understand that there are hurt feelings because he left for some fans.

I am not sure where you fall in your assessment of the player and this isn’t meant to put words in your mouth. These are just common reasons he was undervalued/appreciated by some.

Petro was a very talented, cerebral, two-way defenseman who likely will get consideration for the HHoF. He got consideration for the Conn Smyth for our run and won a second Cup in a prominent role for Vegas. So if that doesn’t qualify as elite, then maybe our calibration for assessment is off or there are clear biases at play.

There’s a certain poster here who is going to get an aneurism from reading that.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I do think Petro is pretty guaranteed a spot in the Hall. I know Weber was viewed a bit more highly at his peak, where some viewed him as the best in the league, he just never won a Norris, and Petro was a bit below that during his peak, but Petro has multiple Cups and multiple golds with Canada at various events.