2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[Mike Liut]

Probably Peterson.

Yep, that’s who it was

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yep, that’s who it was

Anything interesting in it?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Probably Peterson.

The guy falling down in camp today?

 

[Mike Liut]

Anything interesting in it?

Not really. Just caught the end of it and never heard who it was. Being a 6’4 center intrigued me and they made it sound like he had a great college career.

 

[execwrite1]

Honestly one of my biggest concerns going into the season now is having Schenn penciled in as our 2C. Last year he struggled to effective at the 2C spot, that is why we tried shifting Buch there. Unless he has a resurgence I would prefer to see him as the 3C or middle six wing. Sadly it looks like the only way that happens is if Dvorsky makes the team as 2C or someone like Texier explodes on the scene and takes the spot away. As of right now I see the lineup penciled as such.

Buchnevich - Thomas -Kyrou
Neighbours - Schenn - Saad
XXXX1 - Texier - XXXX2
Toropchenko - Faksa - XXXX3

The XXXX indicate a spot to be determined in camp made up: Joseph, Kapanen, Sundqvist (injury), Dvorsky, Bolduc, Sylvegard and Walker.

On defense it is a little more straight forward, honestly I still expect another trade off the back end.

Leddy - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Joseph/Peru - Kessel
Tucker

Neighbours Thomas Kyrou
Saad Schenn Buchnevich
Bolduc Dvorsky Toropchenko
Texier Faska Sundqvist

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not really. Just caught the end of it and never heard who it was. Being a 6’4 center intrigued me and they made it sound like he had a great college career.

He may have potential as a defensive 4th line center. Greater chance that he never makes it.

 

[Blanick]

Neighbours Thomas Kyrou
Saad Schenn Buchnevich
Bolduc Dvorsky Toropchenko
Texier Faska Sundqvist

So we traded for Joseph to not play him? Play two rookies (Bolduc and Dvorsky) on the same line? I love Toropchenko but putting him higher in lineup than Texier?

 

[Xerloris]

I just can't believe that the analytics are what they are. He seemed to be rarely in the d zone. He also seemed to be rarely a factor in terms of producing opportunities for linemates. I get that he didn't really have a lot to work with in Kapanen/Vrana/Torpo/Whomever was thrown in there. But I don't think he helps anyone that's on his line either. He has some use in a possession style game, but he seemingly was never put with possession style players. I'd agree that eliminating the role somewhat hurts. We're pretty much pinned into either having Buch and Schenn down the middle or pushing a young player to take the spot like a Dvorsky or Dean even if they aren't ready.

We've seen a lot of Schenn and Buch as centers. In my opinion Buch looks pretty good there, but i don't think he really knows how to win a faceoff, which is a problem in it's own right.

This is why analytics are dangerous. It's clear to anyone that watched Hayes play that he was absolute garbage but people that only believe in analytics will still be high on him.

How many more years of effective Parayko should we reasonably expect?

I agree the team needs to acquire a top 2-3 defender through other means.

I would say he should easily be effective till probably 40. He skates great, doesn't play physical so outside of a freak injury I think he's going to age gracefully like Jbo.

Per Seravalli and Friedman, we’re trading for both Radek Faksa and Mathieu Joseph. No word on returns yet.

I thought they were both Dmen.

So that whole "real dollar" commentary was clearly bullshit, obviously...they just wanted Hayes out pretty badly, clearly.

Makes you wonder what was going on behind the scenes to make Hayes so bad. I mean I get why I hated him but the team wanting him gone so badly?

You sure Sunny even will play meaningful again? How many ACL tears is this now?

2? I'm not sure if they're the same knee but he was looking like Sunny of old last year.

Well, Army did reference a deal where both sides would have to be comfortably uncomfortable. This is it IMO. I would’ve preferred fewer years or less AAV or to have traded him but it’s unlikely to be a disaster contract.

Just not sure how well a 34-36 year old Buch making $8M/year fits into the new core in a few years.

cap should be 105m pretty easily at that point.

Why would Buch want to be a part of this rebuild at his age?

It's possible that he actually likes it here so when he said he wanted to stay, he proved it and stayed instead.

Blues have 10 bottom 6 forwards now

better than the 2 we had last year to go with 6 guys that should not have been in the NHL.












All in all this morning I felt like a top 5 pick was within our grasp but now with the bottom 6 looking like actual NHL players I think we may actually make the playoffs. Our bottom 6 last year was so f***ing awful.

 

[Thallis]

When was the last significant Blues deal you did? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have been pretty negative on every move for a while. What would you have liked us to do this summer?

Trade Buch, preferably trade Binnington earlier in the summer, and stand pat, maybe trade Saad for picks. You should know where I stand in terms of where we are as a franchise. My biggest fear for years is that we're following the path we're on: play middling hockey for years trying to make what we have worse before we get outclassed by teams that have done real rebuilds and we finally decide that we need to do follow suit.

Following any "LA model" is folly. We're in a worse place than they were when they bottomed out, they got higher and better picks than we've gotten or are looking to get, and to top it all off, LA is still not good enough to do real damage in the post season.

For the record the numbers for Buch are whatever to me. Maybe a bit overpay, but nothing that kills you. I just think it's a sign of a directionless franchise that's too afraid to do what it needs to be a legitimate threat in the future.

 

[Hrkac Circus]

Looks like the Avalanche signed Calle Rosen.

 

[Xerloris]

Trade Buch, preferably trade Binnington earlier in the summer, and stand pat, maybe trade Saad for picks. You should know where I stand in terms of where we are as a franchise. My biggest fear for years is that we're following the path we're on: play middling hockey for years trying to make what we have worse before we get outclassed by teams that have done real rebuilds and we finally decide that we need to do follow suit.

Following any "LA model" is folly. We're in a worse place than they were when they bottomed out, they got higher and better picks than we've gotten or are looking to get, and to top it all off, LA is still not good enough to do real damage in the post season.

For the record the numbers for Buch are whatever to me. Maybe a bit overpay, but nothing that kills you. I just think it's a sign of a directionless franchise that's too afraid to do what it needs to be a legitimate threat in the future.

I just don't think going full tank like you're wanting is ideal. How many teams that do that turn it around and become legitimate threats in the playoffs as soon as they get their superstar pick? They spend many more years still trying to turn it around because that one player isn't enough to win all by themselves.

 

[Beauterham]

Honestly one of my biggest concerns going into the season now is having Schenn penciled in as our 2C. Last year he struggled to effective at the 2C spot, that is why we tried shifting Buch there. Unless he has a resurgence I would prefer to see him as the 3C or middle six wing. Sadly it looks like the only way that happens is if Dvorsky makes the team as 2C or someone like Texier explodes on the scene and takes the spot away. As of right now I see the lineup penciled as such.

Buchnevich - Thomas -Kyrou
Neighbours - Schenn - Saad
XXXX1 - Texier - XXXX2
Toropchenko - Faksa - XXXX3

The XXXX indicate a spot to be determined in camp made up: Joseph, Kapanen, Sundqvist (injury), Dvorsky, Bolduc, Sylvegard and Walker.

On defense it is a little more straight forward, honestly I still expect another trade off the back end.

Leddy - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Joseph/Peru - Kessel
Tucker

There was a story on the Athletic a while ago where Army was quoted that, for then, Buchnevich was pencilled in as 2nd line C and Schenn as 3rd line C. However that could still change.

In that case I'd expect something like:
Bolduc - Thomas - Neighbours
Saad - Buchnevich - Kyrou
Texier - Schenn - Joseph
Walker/Kapanen - Faksa - Toropchenko

 

[wiscrev]

There was a story on the Athletic a while ago where Army was quoted that, for then, Buchnevich was pencilled in as 2nd line C and Schenn as 3rd line C. However that could still change.

In that case I'd expect something like:
Bolduc - Thomas - Neighbours
Saad - Buchnevich - Kyrou
Texier - Schenn - Joseph
Walker/Kapanen - Faksa - Toropchenko

I just don't think going full tank like you're wanting is ideal. How many teams that do that turn it around and become legitimate threats in the playoffs as soon as they get their superstar pick? They spend many more years still trying to turn it around because that one player isn't enough to win all by themselves.

This+

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I totally get the argument for trading him, but that was contingent on getting good value for him. It's possible that we would have had a hard time getting good value in the current market. That being said, when you have a good player who likes it here and seems committed to the team and the city then it's hard to let that go. Clearly he wants to help be a part of turning this team around and that makes me feel good as a Blues fan.

100% agree. Reading JR's article tonight which extensively quoted Buchy's agent was fascinating. I don't know that we had ever really gotten a full profile with extensive quotes from Buchy on who he is an what he wanted, but JR actually did a great job doing so without actually even speaking to Buchy (who is in Russia on holiday), but getting great quotes form Bannister and especially the agent. I was left with the feeling that the person and player he described Buchy to be, and what was important to him in extending here, sounded incredibly similar to our GM-in-waiting.

That makes me even more excited about this extension, because while I doubt he can be worth the back couple of years of his contract, he can fill the kind of key elder statesmen taking on lesser role to help team win Cup role as Steen, If we had gotten the ransom we were asking for him at the deadline I'd have done it, but I think this extension is much better outcome than what he would have returned at deadline. And our incubation period on that team potentially gets shorter now that we don't have to replace our 2nd best forward.

 

[Spektre]

Since Army is taking flyers on players, why not sign McLeod for 1 year? The need for a center is there

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Since Army is taking flyers on players, why not sign McLeod for 1 year? The need for a center is there

Wasn't he part of the 2016 Canada WJC scandal and currently banned from the NHL? No thank you. I'd rather resign Vrana

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Blues have 10 bottom 6 forwards now

After a couple seasons where we struggled to have 6, I don't have a problem with that. I agree, though, if you are questioning whether we have enough top 6 guys to fill out our top 6.

 

[Spektre]

Wasn't he part of the 2016 Canada WJC scandal and currently banned from the NHL? No thank you. I'd rather resign Vrana

Ahhh yes I see.. well never mind

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I'm hoping Tex and POJ can hit the next level here next year. Both are still 25 or younger so if they can force their way into being good complimentary pieces that would go a long way.

I've long seen POJ as potential buy low reclamation prospect. He seemed to have a coach who saw him still as an error prone kid on team trying to compete and maybe never evolved off that viewpoint, pigeonholing him like Berube did at times with Dunn. And the composition of that d core was rather off last year too. Admittedly, it's more likely than not that the coach who watched him every night was right to limit his icetime, but it's not unheard of for a change of scenery to help propel a young d to a much higher level.

I'm not as high on him as I was on Broberg (who i suspect isn't gonna be available to buy low), but I'd much rather stick him out there and see what he can do than Tucker (unless he learns to skate over the summer) or peru (unless he puts on about 3 inches and 25 pounds). We already know that the other 2 are highly unlikely to be legit top 4 guy on playoff team.

 

[simon IC]

I like the POJ signing. I already have him pencilled in ahead of Perunovich. I hope I'm right.

 

[mk80]

Having the Joseph brothers will be fun. Let’s hope we don’t see them in the box together this season. Although MJ shouldn’t have got a penalty in this situation.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Trade Buch, preferably trade Binnington earlier in the summer, and stand pat, maybe trade Saad for picks. You should know where I stand in terms of where we are as a franchise. My biggest fear for years is that we're following the path we're on: play middling hockey for years trying to make what we have worse before we get outclassed by teams that have done real rebuilds and we finally decide that we need to do follow suit.

Following any "LA model" is folly. We're in a worse place than they were when they bottomed out, they got higher and better picks than we've gotten or are looking to get, and to top it all off, LA is still not good enough to do real damage in the post season.

For the record the numbers for Buch are whatever to me. Maybe a bit overpay, but nothing that kills you. I just think it's a sign of a directionless franchise that's too afraid to do what it needs to be a legitimate threat in the future.

Thank you. That was thoughtfully done and I appreciate it. You certainly lay out the perils of this approach, but I'm much more afraid of being red wings and tanking and losing lottery and never getting franchise player or good enough to even make playoffs.

I don't think I'm being overly dramatic when I say that Dvo, Lindstein, and Jiricek are the 3 keys to whether this version of rebuild can work. If Dvo can become quality 2c (don't need him to be kopitar but something akin to krecji), and 1 of the 2 d to become legit top pairing guy (they've both been comped to brodin, so let's say that level) and the other to be legit top 4d, then the things that need to happen for us to become legit contender feel much more attainable.

We would still need i woud think to for 1 or more guys to level up, or maybe find an additional higher end core piece. but if those 3 don't hit then those are big pieces missing and we would likely need at least 1 if not more additional high picks to get there.

 

[Thallis]

Thank you. That was thoughtfully done and I appreciate it. You certainly lay out the perils of this approach, but I'm much more afraid of being red wings and tanking and losing lottery and never getting franchise player or good enough to even make playoffs.

I don't think I'm being overly dramatic when I say that Dvo, Lindstein, and Jiricek are the 3 keys to whether this version of rebuild can work. If Dvo can become quality 2c (don't need him to be kopitar but something akin to krecji), and 1 of the 2 d to become legit top pairing guy (they've both been comped to brodin, so let's say that level) and the other to be legit top 4d, then the things that need to happen for us to become legit contender feel much more attainable.

We would still need i woud think to for 1 or more guys to level up, or maybe find an additional higher end core piece. but if those 3 don't hit then those are big pieces missing and we would likely need at least 1 if not more additional high picks to get there.

This biggest issue I have with our approach is that these guys need to do more than hit. For Lindstein, hitting is a top 4 defenseman. We need him hit the very top of his ceiling and probably past what people thought for this to work. Jiricek needs to become our best defenseman compared to who we have now and not by a small margin. If he does, we'll still likely need to find a top pairing LHD to play with him, which is also not easy considering how it took 5ish years for us to fill that hole for Pietrangelo. I see Dvorsky's top end as something like a Timo Meyer, big productive first liner, but ultimately a complimentary guy. I think in order to compete we'll need one other player at or beyond Thomas's level and I just don't see where that's coming from unless we have someone come from effectively nowhere, but even that might not be enough if these other guys aren't hitting as bonafide top of the lineup players.

There's obviously risk in a full rebuild, but Vegas is really the only team that has gone on to win the cup in a long time without the value foundation of high picks. I just think in general the margin for error with a rebuild is higher than what we're attempting, which is essentially threading the needle. Dallas is the closest to pulling it off, but even their best player is a top 5 draft pick.

 

[Xerloris]

There's obviously risk in a full rebuild, but Vegas is really the only team that has gone on to win the cup in a long time without the value foundation of high picks.

I mean I guess #2 overall Jack Eichel and #4 over all Pietrangelo don't count as high picks? I'm sure there are other high picks in there.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

This biggest issue I have with our approach is that these guys need to do more than hit. For Lindstein, hitting is a top 4 defenseman. We need him hit the very top of his ceiling and probably past what people thought for this to work. Jiricek needs to become our best defenseman compared to who we have now and not by a small margin. If he does, we'll still likely need to find a top pairing LHD to play with him, which is also not easy considering how it took 5ish years for us to fill that hole for Pietrangelo. I see Dvorsky's top end as something like a Timo Meyer, big productive first liner, but ultimately a complimentary guy. I think in order to compete we'll need one other player at or beyond Thomas's level and I just don't see where that's coming from unless we have someone come from effectively nowhere, but even that might not be enough if these other guys aren't hitting as bonafide top of the lineup players.

There's obviously risk in a full rebuild, but Vegas is really the only team that has gone on to win the cup in a long time without the value foundation of high picks. I just think in general the margin for error with a rebuild is higher than what we're attempting, which is essentially threading the needle. Dallas is the closest to pulling it off, but even their best player is a top 5 draft pick.

That is what I am saying, if Lindstein and Jiricek can be our top pair, Dvo at the level you describe, then we are in realm of possibilities, but still need someone else to level up or get another star. That isn't easy, but we have bee accumulating lots of high picks, so hopefully either we hit big on one or we can package for that guy. It's not easy, but it's the path we seem to have chosen and it's I think not an unreasonable one. And I'm a huge Lindstein fan, so of the things that have to happen, him outperforming expectations is something that i rather expect but obviously most prospects won't.