Snubbed4Vezina
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2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.
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Snubbed4Vezina
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Here's the Blues roster for next month's prospect showcase with the Blackhawks and Wild:
Thallis
No half measures
Hot damn hockey starts next month
I've been checking the boards waiting for Doug's big move. I assumed something was coming; though figured it would be a trade. Did not see an offer sheet coming, let alone two...but love the weaponization of cap space and (potential) use of the draft picks. Bold moves...got to give him some credit for being willing to go down that road. Nicely done.
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PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Beauterham
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NCAA players usually don't come to showcases like this as they need to pay the costs out of their own pocket. That's why Ralph, P.Fischer and Snuggerud aren't on the list. Players who's season in Europe starts soon aren't on the list aswell (Lindstein, Stenberg, the Russians, etc.). Jiricek probably hasn't been cleared yet.
There hasn't been an official update about where Stancl and Kaskimaki are going to play, but seeing they ARE on the list, they probably start next season in the US (Stancl in the CHL, Kaskimaki in the AHL).
Jake Gudelj is the only invite (yet), but he was also invited to our development camp earlier, so I guess they liked what they saw from him.
Snubbed4Vezina
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I am going to finally comment on Pietrangelo moving on. For some reason, several members on HF have brought up Pietro (in relation to the two OS) and his "unwillingness" to sign in STL. Nonsense.
This is almost exactly like the Pujols situation, in that market forces drove the move. It was all set up this way to try to get the Angels another WS win. Pujols was all but forced to take the Angels' offer. It wasn't the front office's fault nor was it the fault of the owners. There is no fault or blame. The market forced the deal while the parties involved played up their best kabuki.
Same with Pietrangelo.
Everyone is blaming either the player or the GM, when there is no blame to be attributed. None at all.
It was a market force. Pietrangelo to VGK was the writing on the wall to put VGK over the top towards their first Cup win.
This is almost exactly like the Pujols situation, in that market forces drove the move. It was all set up this way to try to get the Angels another WS win. Pujols was all but forced to take the Angels' offer. It wasn't the front office's fault nor was it the fault of the owners. There is no fault or blame. The market forced the deal while the parties involved played up their best kabuki.
Same with Pietrangelo.
Everyone is blaming either the player or the GM, when there is no blame to be attributed. None at all.
It was a market force. Pietrangelo to VGK was the writing on the wall to put VGK over the top towards their first Cup win.
bleedblue1223
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Funny. I've refrained from commenting on the Pietro situation, but I just finally had to speak my piece.
bleedblue1223
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Memento
Future Authoress.
What happened with Pietrangelo was done and over. We can't change the past or stay angry. The real issue was something nobody had ever foreseen: Bouwmeester's career ending in Anaheim. Even losing Pietrangelo to Vegas wouldn't have hurt as much if Bouwmeester hadn't been forced to retire. Again, this is nobody's fault that we essentially lost our best left-handed defenseman, something we scrambled to replace (paying two seconds: one for Scandella and compounded that by signing him to an extension, one for Leddy, paying Krug a massive contract, being forced to pay Leddy a massive contract after Krug and Scandella busted and Dunn was poached by Seattle).
Hopefully one of Broberg - if Edmonton doesn't match - or Lindstein, or maybe even Lukas Fischer or Colin Ralph or someone completely out of the blue can solve the issue that we've been missing since 2020: an elite left-handed defensive defenseman with the ability to move the puck. Hopefully Jiricek and/or Kessel and a highly picked righty defenseman can be stabilizing figures on the right side when Faulk is gone and Parayko declines.
It's why I love these moves. We have a solid forward core and adding another younger potential big third-line center/wing - one who could potentially move up, if needed - to it always helps, but Broberg is the real prize. We didn't pay them more than two years, so if they wash out, it's no real risk...but if Broberg hits, we could have that elusive, elite number one, all situations defenseman that we've truly been lacking, and that's worth two non-first-round picks any day of the year.
Hopefully one of Broberg - if Edmonton doesn't match - or Lindstein, or maybe even Lukas Fischer or Colin Ralph or someone completely out of the blue can solve the issue that we've been missing since 2020: an elite left-handed defensive defenseman with the ability to move the puck. Hopefully Jiricek and/or Kessel and a highly picked righty defenseman can be stabilizing figures on the right side when Faulk is gone and Parayko declines.
It's why I love these moves. We have a solid forward core and adding another younger potential big third-line center/wing - one who could potentially move up, if needed - to it always helps, but Broberg is the real prize. We didn't pay them more than two years, so if they wash out, it's no real risk...but if Broberg hits, we could have that elusive, elite number one, all situations defenseman that we've truly been lacking, and that's worth two non-first-round picks any day of the year.
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Thallis
No half measures
They will until the echoes of the move are no longer felt, i.e. the Blues are a real competitor again.
Friedman had some Blues news on his show today. He reported that the Blues made a run at trading for Necas during the draft, and said we were trying on a few other deals as well. I wonder what all we had cooking up.
It’s funny because things did feel a little quiet for us at the draft and the first day of free agency from a media reporting perspective, but it sounds like there was quite a bit actually going on behind the scenes. Not a huge surprise that we play things close to the vest, but it’s kinda crazy to think about how active Army has been this offseason when you think about the moves that he’s made, in addition to all the ones that didn’t go through.
In less surprising news that I’m sure we could have speculated about, he said Holloway and Broberg were at the center of trade talks for Buch during the season, that we didn’t think it would be successful if we only targeted one of them with an offer sheet, and he doesn’t think this would have happened if Ken Holland was still there (due to his friendship with Army).
An Edmonton reporter (Bob Stauffer) also reported today that EDM management was directed to get Broberg and Holloway signed back in January.
It’s funny because things did feel a little quiet for us at the draft and the first day of free agency from a media reporting perspective, but it sounds like there was quite a bit actually going on behind the scenes. Not a huge surprise that we play things close to the vest, but it’s kinda crazy to think about how active Army has been this offseason when you think about the moves that he’s made, in addition to all the ones that didn’t go through.
In less surprising news that I’m sure we could have speculated about, he said Holloway and Broberg were at the center of trade talks for Buch during the season, that we didn’t think it would be successful if we only targeted one of them with an offer sheet, and he doesn’t think this would have happened if Ken Holland was still there (due to his friendship with Army).
An Edmonton reporter (Bob Stauffer) also reported today that EDM management was directed to get Broberg and Holloway signed back in January.
bleedblue1223
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I'd be curious what the other trades were. We know they were interested in guys like Stephenson and Drouin on free agency, Edmundson too.
For that last part, that's just weak by the club trying to deflect blame. At that point in the season, Broberg wasn't going to sign any extension. He was wanting a trade or at a bare minimum to see what Edmonton was going to do with him down the stretch. The bigger issue is Edmonton not locking these guys up earlier this summer, unless Army told the agents to just sit tight and that they'd have a big payday coming.
And even then, if Holland just didn't do what upper management wanted, why didn't upper management do anything about it back then?
For that last part, that's just weak by the club trying to deflect blame. At that point in the season, Broberg wasn't going to sign any extension. He was wanting a trade or at a bare minimum to see what Edmonton was going to do with him down the stretch. The bigger issue is Edmonton not locking these guys up earlier this summer, unless Army told the agents to just sit tight and that they'd have a big payday coming.
And even then, if Holland just didn't do what upper management wanted, why didn't upper management do anything about it back then?
Yeah that part I’m not sure about either. I just posted it because it’s somewhat interesting, but I don’t know Bob Stauffer’s exact credibility. I’ve heard his name before and he’s been around for a long time, but he’s not Friedman.
Good point about Stephenson and Drouin, I had almost forgotten about us going after those guys. So Army has been in the mix for tons of players this Summer.
If we can get at least one of these guys from Edmonton, I’ll be very happy with this offseason. I’m already content with it because we added a bunch of decent players without giving up anything, but these offer sheets are truly what could have a big impact for us in the future, if Broberg hits his ceiling.
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So glad we didn't get Drouin. He is one of the most overrated players. I never got the appeal.
bleedblue1223
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On a cheap deal, I would've been fine with him at LW with Thomas.
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Brian39
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Completely agree.
It could also be that the player's agents were actively seeking an offer sheet at the open of free agency and declined to sign a low ball Edmonton deal in case a GM came around to their sales pitches. Either way, I agree with you that the offer sheet plan very likely started to materialize early in the summer.
In fairness, they didn't renew his contract. It was described as a mutual parting of ways, but that could very well be spin. Or the 'mutual decision' could have been the following discussion:
Owners: Do this thing
Holland: No
Owners: I don't think we're going to bring you back if you don't do this thing
Holland: Cool, I don't want to be back if I don't have the autonomy to handle that thing the way I want
I tend to think this is all spin for the fanbase. Even if it isn't, Broberg wasn't signing an extension with them while he was riding the bus in the AHL earning a $70k salary. Any expectation that he could have been extended at that point is ludicrous. If that is in fact something that caused a rift with Holland then it is squarely on ownership not understanding the business of hockey. Actually now that I write it out I'm starting to believe it isn't just spin and this is yet another example of Edmonton ownership being terrible.
Linkens Mastery
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Who said we are trying to be contenders at the current time? We saw a couple players who we think could step in and fill holes we have, it doesnt mean we are saying we are cup or bust this season, but if Broberg, Holloway, Texier, or anyone else can grow into a spot we are a step closer to becoming a good team again especially with the prospects we have coming up.All this and we're still far away from contending.
Itsnotatrap
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Yeah, guys like Blais and Sundqvist are interesting to a lot of us, but they are for backwards looking and nostalgic reasons. These type of players are interesting to a lot of us for forward looking reasons.
It’s the most assertive way the organization could grab a bit of control back into the future course with the sunk costs of some decisions past.
It’s the most assertive way the organization could grab a bit of control back into the future course with the sunk costs of some decisions past.
Brian39
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No, but we are potentially adding a couple nice young players that have the upside to be genuine contributors on a long-term timeline.All this and we're still far away from contending.
I think Broberg is pretty damn unlikely to ever hit the top pair (maybe even fringe #1) upside that was projected in his draft year when he was drafted 8th overall and in the discussion for best D man in the draft class. But that doesn't mean that he can't still become a genuine contributor. Plenty of damn good NHL D men aren't ready to contribute in their early 20s, develop through their mid-20s and then genuinely contribute to a winner in their late 20s.
Montour was 22 for his debut and didn't stick full time until he was 23. He grew through his 20s and was a big piece of Florida's blue line for their win when he was in his age 29 season.
Shea Theodore bounced up and down from the AHL and NHL in his age 20 and 21 seasons before seizing on his opportunity in Vegas in his age 22 season. He had several more years of growth after that season and was the #2 D man on their Cup win in his age 27 season.
Devon Toews was 24 when he made his NHL debut. He was a nice D man for 2 years on the Island and then really broke out as a legit stud in his age 26 season after being traded to the Avs. He won a Cup as the #2 D man on the Avs in his age 27 season.
I'm not saying that he's going to hit those highs, but my point is that this is an addition based on what Broberg could be at 25+. It's not about opening the window right now in his age 23 season. It is about giving a 23 year old with tons of tools the opportunity to grow in the NHL to see if he can develop into a legit contributor for those age 25 through 30 seasons when we're looking to contend again.
