Prospect Info: 2023 WJC Thread

[Devs3cups]

the only thing i care about in regards to the WJC, devils players...thanks

It's all there!

 

[glenwo2]

Luke scores off of his knees....

Dad not impressed.

 

[Devs3cups]

View attachment 631206

Luke scores off of his knees....

Dad not impressed.

Seems like he’s always like that during their games lol. Business as usual.

 

[glenwo2]

Seems like he’s always like that during their games lol. Business as usual.

I'd like to think he's busy analyzing the game and Luke's game so he can give him some constructive critique afterward....

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Luke’s, Nemec’s and Hauser’s are much shorter than most.

Luke Hughes (D, New Jersey Devils): Hughes is past this level. Skates so well that he’s almost never in trouble out there. Transports with such ease and confidence. Gets his shots through.

Simon Nemec (D, New Jersey Devils): Captain. Short little passes and evasions. Steered the game effortlessly. So subtle. Big in big moments (minus his penalties in the quarterfinal), incredibly efficient the rest. Made some really difficult passes through seams.

Topias Vilen (D, New Jersey Devils): There were questions coming into the tournament as to which Finnish blueliner would or could fill the shoes of Topi Niemela and Kasper Puutio, who were both tremendous for them in the summer tournament but aged out. Then, Vilen averaged 26:01 in the tournament. His strengths are defensively (defending the rush, breaking up plays, boxing out) but he tried to activate when he could, too. I have concerns about his upside, but he’s a solid defenseman at this level.

Petr Hauser (F, New Jersey Devils): Good tournament. Nothing about his game jumps out, but he’s effective.

 

[Satans Hockey]

For being the most hyped prospect since McDavid, this Bedard kid seems to be pretty down to earth kinda person. I like it. Keep him out of Metro.

I hope he goes out West, at least if the standings stay the way they are, 4 of the worst 5 teams in the league are in the West.

 

[Xirik]

View attachment 630554View attachment 630555

Marking your territory I see.

 

[StevenToddIves]

You very brave stance of liking one defensive prospect over the other one is duly noted.

Few have the fortitude to walk the lonely path you chose when you decided to like Jiricek more, but try not to give into despair!

@StevenToddIves liked Jirecek more too and we only viciously attack him 30% of the time over it when he posts here, tops.

Jiricek vs. Nemec is a curious debate. Why do we make the argument as infantile as "who is better?" when every shred of empirical evidence and/or projection points to them both becoming elite NHL defensemen, albeit different "types" of defensemen?

In my rankings last year, I think I made it pretty clear I felt it was extremely close in the top 4, which I had as (in order) Slafkovsky, Wright, Jiricek, Nemec. But it's not as easily definable as "who is the best prospect?" between players who are close in talent level, because development arcs are historically proven to be wildly divergent among different prospects. This is to say that any one of those 4 players could end up being the best NHLer after all is said and done, as could a handful of other high-talent 2022 draftees from Mintyukov to Miroshnichenko to Cooley to Gauthier and so on.

Now, of course when I rank Jiricek #3 and Nemec #4 I have my reasons. But it's just so close. While I raved about Jiricek's shot and defense and physicality and Nemec's elite passing skill and great skating and savvy with the puck, I was also careful to point out that Nemec was also good defensively and far from soft, while Jiricek was also excellent with the puck and moved around the ice far better than his critics falsely claimed. These are both special prospects, after all.

I keep harkening back to the 2017 draft, because how many Dallas fans are complaining about having Miro Heiskanen on their team? Ultimately, the fact is that Dallas passed on an historically good defenseman in Cale Makar, to take a very, very good defenseman in Heiskanen. It's an argument I bring up every time a wayward Devils fan complains about the pick of Nico Hischier in that same draft. Was Nico the best player from 2017? No, clearly that was Makar. But was Nico the best 2-way center in the 2017 draft? Absolutely, and Heiskanen was clearly far from the best defenseman, as he's not close to Makar.

Draft projection is not a crystal ball. Many people said Makar was the highest upside pick in 2017, but there was also some risk attached. The Devils reversed this in 2021 when they took Luke Hughes at #4 overall, a player who was widely said (including, ad nauseam, by myself) to have the highest upside in his own draft class, but also who came with risk. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear that Luke Hughes is the most similar-to-Makar defenseman taken in the last 10-15 years.

Back to Jiricek and Nemec, is the argument upside? Because both players had a very high floor -- both played with tremendous success in highly-competitive European men's leagues at the time they were drafted, while neither possessed a singular weakness or character concern which would define them as "risky" picks. To me, Jiricek had the higher upside, while the stat-obsessed draftniks tended to say the upside guy was Nemec, because he was faster and put up better numbers. My personal feeling is that Jiricek's shot has the potential to be absolutely generational -- I think he's the next defenseman who has 30+ goal upside. It's the neutron bomb of point shots, but it's not just that -- Jiricek gets it off with an economical release, while he knows where and when to shoot and how to find the open areas to unleash such a weapon. But Nemec surely has the higher floor to me, because his excellent skating gives him a bit more cushion in his positioning and gaps while his incredibly elite passing ability is guaranteed to make him a devastating weapon on the breakout and in the offensive zone at any level.

This year, everyone knows Conor Bedard is going #1 overall. But what if you're picking #2? Do you go for the Quinton-Byfield-type "holy shit what a skill set" guy in Fantilli? Do you go for the surefire, high-floor/high-ceiling 2-way center in Carlsson? Or do you roll the dice with Michkov -- a kid's whose upside is closer to Bedard (no I'm not kidding) than Fantilli or Carlsson, but comes with a lot more risk, as well?

I'm not sure I even have an argument at all, I'm simply saying there's a lot of ways to think about these things or even to simply look at them. I probably would've taken Jiricek or Wright at #2 overall, but I was also quite happy to get Nemec, and I'm not really second-guessing the Devils pick anymore. But this might be because I tend to overthink everything and am not really a knee-jerk reaction kind of draft analyst. It's like in 2021 when the Devils used the #29 pick on Stillman and everyone went apeshit. Now, while I did not like the Stillman pick on many levels (I really would have loved Aatu Raty there), I said at the time the worst pick for the Devils was actually not Stillman, but the largely lauded #68 overall selection of Samu Salminen -- allowing sublime (and criminally underrated) defense prospect Stanislav Svozil to go one pick later to the division rival Columbus Blue Jackets. And if we go back and watch the 2023 WJC, I think it's pretty clear that the only D who outplayed Jiricek for the tournament was Svozil, who was simply electrifying all tournament long. But again, Svozil was passed on 68 times and I could write a dissertation on my theories why so many teams blew it with such an outstanding young defender.

Ultimately, whether you prefer Jiricek or Nemec, you could offer a great argument. But what you cannot argue without compromising your integrity is that both of these young talents are elite defense prospects for the NHL.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I apologize for not writing about the last couple of games of the WJC, but I was pretty busy and also upset about what I felt was the railroading of Team USA vs Canada in the semi-finals.

Every year I try to put up a tournament all-star team, because I'm far less biased than the people who actually vote on it. This year, I felt it was pretty easy.

F Conor Bedard, Canada (2023)
F Jiri Kulich, Czechia (Buffalo)
F Jimmy Snuggerud, USA (St. Louis)
D Stanislav Svozil, Czechia (Columbus)
D David Jiricek, Czechia (Columbus)
G Carl Lindbom, Sweden (Vegas)

Honorable mentions:
F Dylan Guenther, Canada (Arizona)
D Ethan Del Mastro, Canada (Chicago)
G Tomas Suchanek, Czechia (Undrafted, available again for re-draft 2023)

Though the Devils did not have a player on my all-star mentions, all four players were terrific. Simon Nemec was by far the best defender for Slovakia while Topias Vilen was the same for Finland. Petr Hauser impressed a ton with his physicality, great shot and under-appreciated passing for Czechia. Luke Hughes was uneven -- spectacular at times, but also a bit too mistake-prone. Still, he was the second-best defenseman for Team USA after only Sean Behrens (Colorado), who was consistently terrific all tournament long.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

I apologize for not writing about the last couple of games of the WJC, but I was pretty busy and also upset about what I felt was the railroading of Team USA vs Canada in the semi-finals.

Every year I try to put up a tournament all-star team, because I'm far less biased than the people who actually vote on it. This year, I felt it was pretty easy.

F Conor Bedard, Canada (2023)
F Jiri Kulich, Czechia (Buffalo)
F Jimmy Snuggerud, USA (St. Louis)
D Stanislav Svozil, Czechia (Columbus)
D David Jiricek, Czechia (Columbus)
G Carl Lindbom, Sweden (Vegas)

Honorable mentions:
F Dylan Guenther, Canada (Arizona)
D Ethan Del Mastro, Canada (Chicago)
G Tomas Suchanek, Czechia (Undrafted, available again for re-draft 2023)

Though the Devils did not have a player on my all-star mentions, all four players were terrific. Simon Nemec was by far the best defender for Slovakia while Topias Vilen was the same for Finland. Petr Hauser impressed a ton with his physicality, great shot and under-appreciated passing for Czechia. Luke Hughes was uneven -- spectacular at times, but also a bit too mistake-prone. Still, he was the second-best defenseman for Team USA after only Sean Behrens (Colorado), who was consistently terrific all tournament long.

Thank you! Finally a sensible post about L. Hughes and S. Nemec. Good but not great, thats how i felt about them too. Nothing to awe at really, apart from the occasional flashes here and there. Theyre not like some unique diamonds ready to burn the league next year. Borderline if either of them is even a net positive impact player before 2025 in NHL. This board tends to over-hype pretty much every player and prospect the Devils have

Jiricek did really stand out.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Thank you! Finally a sensible post about L. Hughes and S. Nemec. Good but not great, thats how i felt about them too. Nothing to awe at really, apart from the occasional flashes here and there. Theyre not like some unique diamonds ready to burn the league next year. Borderline if either of them is even a net positive impact player before 2025 in NHL. This board tends to over-hype pretty much every player and prospect it has

Jiricek did really stand out.

Or under-hype. Remember the backlash on Shakir Mukhamadullin? Well, Shakir looks like one hell of a prospect right now. And people acting like the Chase Stillman pick was the worst in Devils history have to keep in mind he's still got a pretty clear path to an NHL bottom 6 one day. Certain people are acting like Alexander Holtz is already some sort of bust, and the kid was just drafted in 2020. Not enough people are talking about Arseni Gritsyuk, who has top-6, high-scoring upside at the NHL level.

I think people need to avoid being hysterical. All prospects develop at different paces. I think Tage Thompson is a pretty good example of that on an obvious level, but so is Jonas Siegenthaler on a far more subtle level.

The only picks which really get my proverbial goat is picks which seem to be made on a more political or bias-level than actually hockey scouting. The perfect example of this would be Benjamin Baumgartner in the 2020 6th round -- you pretty much could've just picked a name from a hat and had higher chances for a future NHL player.

In the end, all NHL Stanley Cup contenders are teams which have drafted well in the decade prior to becoming contenders. The converse to that would be the frustration which is Edmonton -- since getting Draisaitl and McDavid top 3 in 2014/2015, the only impact NHL skater they've drafted has been Evan Bouchard and the only top-50-type prospects they have are probably Xavier Bourgault and Dylan Holloway, who would be towards the back end of such a list. Can you imagine if they made the obvious pick of Trevor Zegras instead of Philip Broberg(!), or if they took Matt Tkachuk over Puljujarvi?

As for the Devils

 

[My3Sons]

I apologize for not writing about the last couple of games of the WJC, but I was pretty busy and also upset about what I felt was the railroading of Team USA vs Canada in the semi-finals.

You finally realized you owe me an apology? It’s about time. In any event I reluctantly forgive you but don’t let it happen again!!

 

[Guadana]

Arseni Gritsyuk

I heard 50-90 nhl games.
He is Arseniy btw. This is the time for bias opinions. Its better to sell. And its fun to discuss if we talk about good side of bias.

Baumgartner was praised by scouching btw. Time when I listened his opinion closely. He was very high on Casey. May be his stat method cross the roads sometimes with what Devils are using.
Only sometimes. He doesn't like what our organization is doing. There were fun moment when Devils picked Casey and he said something like "I think I understand why I should rank lower than I did" or something like that. He was wrong even when he was right. Shame on me I know that.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Jiricek vs. Nemec is a curious debate. Why do we make the argument as infantile as "who is better?" when every shred of empirical evidence and/or projection points to them both becoming elite NHL defensemen, albeit different "types" of defensemen?

In my rankings last year, I think I made it pretty clear I felt it was extremely close in the top 4, which I had as (in order) Slafkovsky, Wright, Jiricek, Nemec. But it's not as easily definable as "who is the best prospect?" between players who are close in talent level, because development arcs are historically proven to be wildly divergent among different prospects. This is to say that any one of those 4 players could end up being the best NHLer after all is said and done, as could a handful of other high-talent 2022 draftees from Mintyukov to Miroshnichenko to Cooley to Gauthier and so on.

Now, of course when I rank Jiricek #3 and Nemec #4 I have my reasons. But it's just so close. While I raved about Jiricek's shot and defense and physicality and Nemec's elite passing skill and great skating and savvy with the puck, I was also careful to point out that Nemec was also good defensively and far from soft, while Jiricek was also excellent with the puck and moved around the ice far better than his critics falsely claimed. These are both special prospects, after all.

I keep harkening back to the 2017 draft, because how many Dallas fans are complaining about having Miro Heiskanen on their team? Ultimately, the fact is that Dallas passed on an historically good defenseman in Cale Makar, to take a very, very good defenseman in Heiskanen. It's an argument I bring up every time a wayward Devils fan complains about the pick of Nico Hischier in that same draft. Was Nico the best player from 2017? No, clearly that was Makar. But was Nico the best 2-way center in the 2017 draft? Absolutely, and Heiskanen was clearly far from the best defenseman, as he's not close to Makar.

Draft projection is not a crystal ball. Many people said Makar was the highest upside pick in 2017, but there was also some risk attached. The Devils reversed this in 2021 when they took Luke Hughes at #4 overall, a player who was widely said (including, ad nauseam, by myself) to have the highest upside in his own draft class, but also who came with risk. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear that Luke Hughes is the most similar-to-Makar defenseman taken in the last 10-15 years.

Back to Jiricek and Nemec, is the argument upside? Because both players had a very high floor -- both played with tremendous success in highly-competitive European men's leagues at the time they were drafted, while neither possessed a singular weakness or character concern which would define them as "risky" picks. To me, Jiricek had the higher upside, while the stat-obsessed draftniks tended to say the upside guy was Nemec, because he was faster and put up better numbers. My personal feeling is that Jiricek's shot has the potential to be absolutely generational -- I think he's the next defenseman who has 30+ goal upside. It's the neutron bomb of point shots, but it's not just that -- Jiricek gets it off with an economical release, while he knows where and when to shoot and how to find the open areas to unleash such a weapon. But Nemec surely has the higher floor to me, because his excellent skating gives him a bit more cushion in his positioning and gaps while his incredibly elite passing ability is guaranteed to make him a devastating weapon on the breakout and in the offensive zone at any level.

This year, everyone knows Conor Bedard is going #1 overall. But what if you're picking #2? Do you go for the Quinton-Byfield-type "holy shit what a skill set" guy in Fantilli? Do you go for the surefire, high-floor/high-ceiling 2-way center in Carlsson? Or do you roll the dice with Michkov -- a kid's whose upside is closer to Bedard (no I'm not kidding) than Fantilli or Carlsson, but comes with a lot more risk, as well?

I'm not sure I even have an argument at all, I'm simply saying there's a lot of ways to think about these things or even to simply look at them. I probably would've taken Jiricek or Wright at #2 overall, but I was also quite happy to get Nemec, and I'm not really second-guessing the Devils pick anymore. But this might be because I tend to overthink everything and am not really a knee-jerk reaction kind of draft analyst. It's like in 2021 when the Devils used the #29 pick on Stillman and everyone went apeshit. Now, while I did not like the Stillman pick on many levels (I really would have loved Aatu Raty there), I said at the time the worst pick for the Devils was actually not Stillman, but the largely lauded #68 overall selection of Samu Salminen -- allowing sublime (and criminally underrated) defense prospect Stanislav Svozil to go one pick later to the division rival Columbus Blue Jackets. And if we go back and watch the 2023 WJC, I think it's pretty clear that the only D who outplayed Jiricek for the tournament was Svozil, who was simply electrifying all tournament long. But again, Svozil was passed on 68 times and I could write a dissertation on my theories why so many teams blew it with such an outstanding young defender.

Ultimately, whether you prefer Jiricek or Nemec, you could offer a great argument. But what you cannot argue without compromising your integrity is that both of these young talents are elite defense prospects for the NHL.

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

Clearly you have no bias, right?

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Clearly you have no bias, right?

Facts can't be bias.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Jiricek vs. Nemec is a curious debate. Why do we make the argument as infantile as "who is better?" when every shred of empirical evidence and/or projection points to them both becoming elite NHL defensemen, albeit different "types" of defensemen?

In my rankings last year, I think I made it pretty clear I felt it was extremely close in the top 4, which I had as (in order) Slafkovsky, Wright, Jiricek, Nemec. But it's not as easily definable as "who is the best prospect?" between players who are close in talent level, because development arcs are historically proven to be wildly divergent among different prospects. This is to say that any one of those 4 players could end up being the best NHLer after all is said and done, as could a handful of other high-talent 2022 draftees from Mintyukov to Miroshnichenko to Cooley to Gauthier and so on.

Now, of course when I rank Jiricek #3 and Nemec #4 I have my reasons. But it's just so close. While I raved about Jiricek's shot and defense and physicality and Nemec's elite passing skill and great skating and savvy with the puck, I was also careful to point out that Nemec was also good defensively and far from soft, while Jiricek was also excellent with the puck and moved around the ice far better than his critics falsely claimed. These are both special prospects, after all.

I keep harkening back to the 2017 draft, because how many Dallas fans are complaining about having Miro Heiskanen on their team? Ultimately, the fact is that Dallas passed on an historically good defenseman in Cale Makar, to take a very, very good defenseman in Heiskanen. It's an argument I bring up every time a wayward Devils fan complains about the pick of Nico Hischier in that same draft. Was Nico the best player from 2017? No, clearly that was Makar. But was Nico the best 2-way center in the 2017 draft? Absolutely, and Heiskanen was clearly far from the best defenseman, as he's not close to Makar.

Draft projection is not a crystal ball. Many people said Makar was the highest upside pick in 2017, but there was also some risk attached. The Devils reversed this in 2021 when they took Luke Hughes at #4 overall, a player who was widely said (including, ad nauseam, by myself) to have the highest upside in his own draft class, but also who came with risk. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear that Luke Hughes is the most similar-to-Makar defenseman taken in the last 10-15 years.

Back to Jiricek and Nemec, is the argument upside? Because both players had a very high floor -- both played with tremendous success in highly-competitive European men's leagues at the time they were drafted, while neither possessed a singular weakness or character concern which would define them as "risky" picks. To me, Jiricek had the higher upside, while the stat-obsessed draftniks tended to say the upside guy was Nemec, because he was faster and put up better numbers. My personal feeling is that Jiricek's shot has the potential to be absolutely generational -- I think he's the next defenseman who has 30+ goal upside. It's the neutron bomb of point shots, but it's not just that -- Jiricek gets it off with an economical release, while he knows where and when to shoot and how to find the open areas to unleash such a weapon. But Nemec surely has the higher floor to me, because his excellent skating gives him a bit more cushion in his positioning and gaps while his incredibly elite passing ability is guaranteed to make him a devastating weapon on the breakout and in the offensive zone at any level.

This year, everyone knows Conor Bedard is going #1 overall. But what if you're picking #2? Do you go for the Quinton-Byfield-type "holy shit what a skill set" guy in Fantilli? Do you go for the surefire, high-floor/high-ceiling 2-way center in Carlsson? Or do you roll the dice with Michkov -- a kid's whose upside is closer to Bedard (no I'm not kidding) than Fantilli or Carlsson, but comes with a lot more risk, as well?

I'm not sure I even have an argument at all, I'm simply saying there's a lot of ways to think about these things or even to simply look at them. I probably would've taken Jiricek or Wright at #2 overall, but I was also quite happy to get Nemec, and I'm not really second-guessing the Devils pick anymore. But this might be because I tend to overthink everything and am not really a knee-jerk reaction kind of draft analyst. It's like in 2021 when the Devils used the #29 pick on Stillman and everyone went apeshit. Now, while I did not like the Stillman pick on many levels (I really would have loved Aatu Raty there), I said at the time the worst pick for the Devils was actually not Stillman, but the largely lauded #68 overall selection of Samu Salminen -- allowing sublime (and criminally underrated) defense prospect Stanislav Svozil to go one pick later to the division rival Columbus Blue Jackets. And if we go back and watch the 2023 WJC, I think it's pretty clear that the only D who outplayed Jiricek for the tournament was Svozil, who was simply electrifying all tournament long. But again, Svozil was passed on 68 times and I could write a dissertation on my theories why so many teams blew it with such an outstanding young defender.

Ultimately, whether you prefer Jiricek or Nemec, you could offer a great argument. But what you cannot argue without compromising your integrity is that both of these young talents are elite defense prospects for the NHL.

Great read STI Raty would have been nice and well worth the risk sucks he went to the asslanders as well...As with Svozil I wanted him to be the pick was actually surprised he didn't go late in the first, but in a way thought after taking Hughes that their organizational depth at LHD had more to do with them passing on Svozil...Do you think that had a lot to do with them passing on him or a scout was just real high on Samu ?

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

Did feel if not for that injury he wouldn't have gotten out of top 4 picks for sure and maybe with all the Wright drama going in would have solidified himself as second overall pick....Both will be good and that knee injury imo is only reason he dropped to you at 6...We will get plenty of games to compare them in the future hopefully both have long careers

 

[Guadana]

Did feel if not for that injury he wouldn't have gotten out of top 4 picks for sure and maybe with all the Wright drama going in would have solidified himself as second overall pick....Both will be good and that knee injury imo is only reason he dropped to you at 6...We will get plenty of games to compare them in the future hopefully both have long careers

Cmon. He is a troll. He even doesn`t believe in what he is talkin about. We saw Jiricek in NHL, he saw it too. Everybody understand that Jiricek is a fun prospect until he playing with real competition, where he is just a big\slow snail, before and especially after the injury. Guy is trying to provocate you, don`t feed him. He will eat his tears when Jack and Jesper and even The Great Majesty of all hockey players Miles Wood will start to dance the circles around him again.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

Facts can't be bias.

Lmao what?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Cmon. He is a troll. He even doesn`t believe in what he is talkin about. We saw Jiricek in NHL, he saw it too. Everybody understand that Jiricek is a fun prospect until he playing with real competition, where he is just a big\slow snail, before and especially after the injury. Guy is trying to provocate you, don`t feed him. He will eat his tears when Jack and Jesper and even The Great Majesty of all hockey players Miles Wood will start to dance the circles around him again.

We've seen it time and time again, physically superior defensmen dominating the WJC. Hell even guys like Bahl were highly effective there. Here are the last 10 top defensmen at the tourney.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Lmao what?

I think i was clear?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think i was clear?

Clearly stupid yes.

There’s nothing remotely factual about it. Just a subjective opinion that lots of people disagree with.

I don’t think anyone suggested the Slovak league was an amazing league anyways but Nemec put up insane numbers there and internationally and has the tools to be an elite defensmen.

 

[Lou is God]

I think i was clear?

You also posted this in the poll thread on who was better, Bedard or Matthews:

Laine's better than both of these guys.

Nothing but clown takes by you.

 

[stastny12]

I think i was clear?

Did you use the question mark because you are not sure if you were clear?