Prospect Info: 2023 WJC Thread

[Jason MacIsaac]

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

Why are you on the Devils board?

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Cmon. He is a troll. He even doesn`t believe in what he is talkin about. We saw Jiricek in NHL, he saw it too. Everybody understand that Jiricek is a fun prospect until he playing with real competition, where he is just a big\slow snail, before and especially after the injury. Guy is trying to provocate you, don`t feed him. He will eat his tears when Jack and Jesper and even The Great Majesty of all hockey players Miles Wood will start to dance the circles around him again.

And i think, that everybody who is considering slovak league as top competitive league in europe is troll too, so?

 

[GettingYourMoms]

We've seen it time and time again, physically superior defensmen dominating the WJC. Hell even guys like Bahl were highly effective there. Here are the last 10 top defensmen at the tourney.
View attachment 631677

Physically superior 18/19yo defenseman who is dominating WJC is also dominating in 2nd best league in the world so your comparison is invalid and i am again right.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Slovak league is hardly competitive. And Jiricek was allways better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively, until his knee injury.

This is kind of a baseless, knee-jerk reaction to a pretty detailed post, so I'll keep it simple in my response. I've been watching Jiricek since he was 16, and have always loved him as a prospect. But to summarily dismiss Nemec's historic accomplishments in the Slovakian men's league as a 16-18 year old is patently absurd. No defenseman had ever even approached Nemec's accomplishments in that league, and no Slovakian defenseman of any age had ever enjoyed the offensive success Nemec had in the Slovakian league playoffs.

Again, I had Jiricek ranked #3 and Nemec #4, and believe me -- as much as my rankings are scrutinized -- I definitely was aware of what order these two players were in. However, to just say "Jiricek was allways [sic] better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively" is clearly subjective in that this was a source of great, great debate in the months leading up to the draft, with many top scouts and draft analysts having them in different orders.

These are both great prospects. Right now, I'd say Jiricek's development arc looks a bit steeper than Nemec, but in his own right Nemec has certainly not disappointed. These are both elite defense prospects for the NHL.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I heard 50-90 nhl games.
He is Arseniy btw. This is the time for bias opinions. Its better to sell. And its fun to discuss if we talk about good side of bias.

Baumgartner was praised by scouching btw. Time when I listened his opinion closely. He was very high on Casey. May be his stat method cross the roads sometimes with what Devils are using.
Only sometimes. He doesn't like what our organization is doing. There were fun moment when Devils picked Casey and he said something like "I think I understand why I should rank lower than I did" or something like that. He was wrong even when he was right. Shame on me I know that.

Again, I respect Scouching because he puts the work in and really researches diligently, but his rankings are just so off-base year in and year out compared to the guys with a greater scouting background, or even to my own rankings. In terms of guys who overvalue stats in the draft, at least he's a million times better than Byron Bader.

There were myriad problems with Benjamin Baumgartner as a draft pick which lead me to believe his pick could have been a gift of sorts to the analytics department. But again, we were dealing with an over-age, under-sized center with no discernible plus tools, so it's tough to defend the pick regardless of who was behind it. And to say "it's just a 6th round pick" is also shameful, since the Devils drafted Jesper Bratt in the 6th round. If you're just going to "throw a dart", then at least draft a goalie.

 

[Guadana]

And i think, that everybody who is considering slovak league as top competitive league in europe is troll too, so?

I think you mix up the forum.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

This is kind of a baseless, knee-jerk reaction to a pretty detailed post, so I'll keep it simple in my response. I've been watching Jiricek since he was 16, and have always loved him as a prospect. But to summarily dismiss Nemec's historic accomplishments in the Slovakian men's league as a 16-18 year old is patently absurd. No defenseman had ever even approached Nemec's accomplishments in that league, and no Slovakian defenseman of any age had ever enjoyed the offensive success Nemec had in the Slovakian league playoffs.

Again, I had Jiricek ranked #3 and Nemec #4, and believe me -- as much as my rankings are scrutinized -- I definitely was aware of what order these two players were in. However, to just say "Jiricek was allways [sic] better prospect than Nemec offensively and defensively" is clearly subjective in that this was a source of great, great debate in the months leading up to the draft, with many top scouts and draft analysts having them in different orders.

These are both great prospects. Right now, I'd say Jiricek's development arc looks a bit steeper than Nemec, but in his own right Nemec has certainly not disappointed. These are both elite defense prospects for the NHL.

both played with tremendous success in highly-competitive European men's leagues at the time they were drafted. This line was like a red rag to a bull when i´ve read it. Tipsport ELH is competitive european men´s league, Slovak Tipos is absolutely not. It´s like saying AHL is comparable to league which is below ECHL level, same bs and every european will say the same.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Physically superior 18/19yo defenseman who is dominating WJC is also dominating in 2nd best league in the world so your comparison is invalid and i am again right.

I was talking about his WJC, not his AHL season. Also, his footspeed was completely exposed at the NHL level, talk to me when he is doing it in the NHL.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Great read STI Raty would have been nice and well worth the risk sucks he went to the asslanders as well...As with Svozil I wanted him to be the pick was actually surprised he didn't go late in the first, but in a way thought after taking Hughes that their organizational depth at LHD had more to do with them passing on Svozil...Do you think that had a lot to do with them passing on him or a scout was just real high on Samu ?

It was just poor draft strategy passing on Svozil -- I mean last year, the Devils took another LD in Dmitri Orlov despite all the prospect talent depth at that position. I'm not sure what the reason was really -- as for myself, I had Svozil top 15-20 overall and Salminen ranked somewhere in the 125-range.

I honestly think that, until last year, there was not enough cohesion in the Devils draft strategy under Tom Fitzgerald. I do think he corrected this problem last year, and enjoyed a terrific draft. But as for Salminen over Svozil, there's just no explanation which makes sense to me. I'd be pretty confident in saying he was the weakest pick of the entire 2021 3rd round.

 

[My3Sons]

And i think, that everybody who is considering slovak league as top competitive league in europe is troll too, so?

What about choosing a “your mom” joke as a name and then expecting to be taken seriously? Is that trolling or just the height of sophistication?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

It was just poor draft strategy passing on Svozil -- I mean last year, the Devils took another LD in Dmitri Orlov despite all the prospect talent depth at that position. I'm not sure what the reason was really -- as for myself, I had Svozil top 15-20 overall and Salminen ranked somewhere in the 125-range.

I honestly think that, until last year, there was not enough cohesion in the Devils draft strategy under Tom Fitzgerald. I do think he corrected this problem last year, and enjoyed a terrific draft. But as for Salminen over Svozil, there's just no explanation which makes sense to me. I'd be pretty confident in saying he was the weakest pick of the entire 2021 3rd round.

Isn't Orlov having success in the KHL? He would have anchored Russia's lineup and could have been just as impressive.

 

[StevenToddIves]

both played with tremendous success in highly-competitive European men's leagues at the time they were drafted. This line was like a red rag to a bull when i´ve read it. Tipsport ELH is competitive european men´s league, Slovak Tipos is absolutely not. It´s like saying AHL is comparable to league which is below ECHL level, same bs and every european will say the same.

I'm going to end this debate here, because it's clownish. I have never had anything except accolades and high-level praise for David Jiricek. Quite simply, I'm a draft guy before I'm a Devils guy. If I think a Devils draft pick was great, I'm going to say it. If I think another team's draft pick was great, I'm going to say it. If I think the Devils blew a draft pick, I'm going to say it.

You pretty clearly don't read our draft threads and only posted on the Devils threads because you saw a debate between "your" prospect and "our" prospect. Now, while we welcome other teams' fans onto Devils threads, we hope they will add great perspectives to the debates on the Devils threads.

"Jiricek is better than Nemec" is a reasonable perspective, but not when the backing debate from a fan of Jiricek's NHL team is "because the Slovakian league is not competitive" or "because it's a fact". This does not add anything to the discussion, because you're not talking about the players in terms of skill sets or projectable tools. You're just weakly trying to support "your" guy by weakly bashing "our" guy, and instead of a rational debate it becomes like a grade-school playground argument.

Is the Czech ELH better than the Slovakian league? Of course, everyone knows that. But it's also really difficult to be the best teenaged defenseman ever in the Slovakian league, because only one guy can claim this ever and it's Simon Nemec. He basically accomplished the most he could possibly accomplish in the league, so it's counterproductive by definition to bash the league.

As for Devils fans, we got pretty tired of hearing these types of arguments when people were -- almost ridiculously -- claiming Kappo Kakko was a comparable prospect to Jack Hughes because he played in a very tough Finnish men's league while Jack played in the USHL. Now, while everyone knows the Finnish league is a better league than the USHL, obviously this did not make Kakko a superior prospect. Just three years later, Hughes is one of the top 25 offensive hockey players on the planet and Kakko is a decent middle-6 winger.

I watch all the teams and know all their prospects. Jiricek is a guy I have high expectations of and Nemec is, as well. You can go back to my draft capsules from last year if you'd like and find detailed reasons why they are both terrific prospects. If you want to add to the debate, we only ask that you do it with logic and reasoning instead of blind hyperbole.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Isn't Orlov having success in the KHL? He would have anchored Russia's lineup and could have been just as impressive.

I'm very high on Orlov, I think I wrote him up in more detail last year before the draft than anyone else in the business. Tremendous skater and excellent defender with untapped offensive upside. I think @Guadana is pretty high on Orlov, too. But I do not regard him quite on the level with Svozil, who I think has two-way, top-pairing, star potential in the NHL. This is not a slight on Orlov, as Svozil lacks any discernible weakness and combines elite-level IQ, compete level and passing acumen, a combination which historically is a pretty surefire road to NHL success.

 

[Guadana]

Isn't Orlov having success in the KHL? He would have anchored Russia's lineup and could have been just as impressive.

He played very well in KHL, has 2 points in 6 games. And he produced 6 points in 3 games in ВХЛ (russian AHL analog). He was injured.

He looks like a VERY GOOD pick for his place on the draft. "Marino`s like" player.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm very high on Orlov, I think I wrote him up in more detail last year before the draft than anyone else in the business. Tremendous skater and excellent defender with untapped offensive upside. I think @Guadana is pretty high on Orlov, too. But I do not regard him quite on the level with Svozil, who I think has two-way, top-pairing, star potential in the NHL. This is not a slight on Orlov, as Svozil lacks any discernible weakness and combines elite-level IQ, compete level and passing acumen, a combination which historically is a pretty surefire road to NHL success.

No discernible weakness? Have you ever tasted his foie Gras? It’s way too pasty and lacks pepper. Totally subpar. He’d better stick to hockey because he will never make it as a Michelin starred chef.