Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v4 | Sun, May 21 | vs BAL | 1:30pm ET/10:30am PT | Kremer vs Gausman
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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Really disappointing another winnable game where the pitching seems to fail to close out games as it has the past few seasons.
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
ChuckNorris4Cup
Registered User
- May 31, 2018
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Wasn't even crushed
Leafs at Knight
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did I say Swanson sucks? Nope. I said the bullpen is a joke. That’s 2 straight games they blew it. If you want to defend it go nuts
Damn it's a real shame the season is over after 3 games
Absolute disgraceful gutter trash of a bullpen smh my head.
Absolute disgraceful gutter trash of a bullpen smh my head.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Swanson has been excellent, minus Babe Ruth hitting a homer off his last night. Romano on the other hand….just scary every time he pitches
I mean, I get that it sucks to lose the way they have the last three games, but we also just watched the Jays have probably the most dominant week of baseball any bullpen has ever had.
15 IP
0 ER
0 H
2 BB
26 K
That's how baseball goes sometimes. They're not that good and they're not this bad. They just had a few unfortunate shitty games at bad times.
15 IP
0 ER
0 H
2 BB
26 K
That's how baseball goes sometimes. They're not that good and they're not this bad. They just had a few unfortunate shitty games at bad times.
But you’re not allowed to say anyone or anything sucks on this team everyone gets so bent out of shape. The bullpens sucks people. Belt sucks. Biggio sucks. It’s just facts at this point.
21st in fWAR (fewest IP of any BP), 14th in ERA, 9th in K/9, 2nd in XFIP
Of our 6 worst hitters, 5 of them have unsustainably low BABIP per their career norms.
The other is Brandon Belt, who is currently striking out 15% more often than last year.
The other is Brandon Belt, who is currently striking out 15% more often than last year.
Yep, they're right around the middle of the pack with a few concerns (HR, mainly) and some ridiculously good peripherals (K and BB rates, xwOBA). It's early, but they've been fine and it's probably a really good pen.
There's also something to be said about making the comment after a really good or bad stretch. The BP is mid-pack after their worst 3 game stretch of the year.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
You said the bullpen sucks when Swanson was the one who just gave up the HR. What other connection is there to draw? That you'd pop in today to say "the bullpen sucks" when they have a good outing, then clarify that you only meant about how Garcia coughed up some runs a couple of days ago? or how Cimber was bad before he went on the DL? If you're saying the bullpen sucks because they "blew it" two games in a row, and the two games had their winning runs surrendered by the two best arms in the pen, it would be obtuse to the highest possible degree to try and pretend you're not drawing a direct line to the pitchers that blew it and saying that they suck.
The fact that you're trying to defend your argument entirely by separating it from the context in which it exists is baffling. And yet it's also remarkably on brand in its obliviousness and how reactionary it is.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Piling this on after I finished quoting the last post because this needs to be said:
This is laughably stupid reasoning. You're not disallowed from saying anything bad. You're disallowed from saying bad things that are blatantly not supported by actual evidence. And saying "it's just facts" is so far removed from being a real defence for your point that it's basically worthless.
People don't get on you because you criticize the team. They get on you because you criticize the team in stupid ways, based on beliefs that are patently false, backed by supposed evidence that doesn't exist, and with all the nuance and rationality of a tiny child throwing a screaming tantrum because they didn't get the toy they wanted for christmas.
you almost to the last, only express things in the most extreme ways. Things are either great and perfect and the best ever or they're the worst and unforgivably terrible and have never been more awful in the history of ever. There is no in between. There is no recognizing that it's always more complicated than you let on.
As of right now the Jays' pen is:
21st in fWAR
14th in ERA
19th in FIP
6th in stranded runners %
5th in K%
4th in BB%
9th in opposing batting average
26th in HR/9
Realistically the pen is mostly middle of the pack to good, it's just that when things falter they go really bad. That doesn't make them "suck" or be the worst or any of the other colorfully strident takes you tend to use. It makes them OK but needing to shore up the areas they're performing poorly in.
If you want to be particularly granular about it, the Jays have had 9 relievers appear in games this season. Though fair warning that small sample size issues apply across the board:
1) Mayza has mostly been excellent in spite of getting BABIP'd to a significant degree
2) Romano's been very good for the most part
3) Swanson has been very good for the most part
4) Pearson has been great in his extremely limited run so far
5) Richards has been decent and possesses the team's best strikeout numbers
6) Garcia has had terrible results but all the underlying numbers suggest he shouldn't be this bad. He seems like a strong candidate for some positive regression
7) Bass has been roundly terrible. There's no way around the fact that he's gotten lit up across the board with his velocity and control down.
8) Pop has been roughed up a fair bit. Though he's also young-ish and has enough promising outings and a decent enough history that there's hope he can turn it around
9) Cimber was a tire fire in spite of getting a ton of BABIP help, though we did just find out he was hurt so maybe that's it?
So the pen's awfulness has mostly been confined to 2 and a half pitchers (the half being Cimber since he at least has an excuse) and blips here and there. Otherwise it's been good to great. But no, let's just wash away all that context to stomp our feet and shriek about how terrible everything is, yeah?
You'll find lots of posters suggesting that they need to solve some issues with the pen. But that's a far cry from the incredibly broad and insultingly shallow screaming about how it all sucks and everything is terrible and that there's no room for actual analysis in favor of shouting and flailing. And then pretending you're the victim because people won't put up with that crap.
Ok so instead of saying our bullpens sucks I’ll say our bullpen is not nearly good enough.
The fact that I would need to show facts that Belt and or Biggio suck would tell me that person doesn’t know anything. They are both abysmal.
At this point saying Belt sucks is like saying the sky is blue. We f***ing know. Not like we can do anything about it.
He's striking out in essentially half his ABs but we don't control the lineup. At the same time it's such a trivial thing to get pissy about because ultimately he's on a one year contract and can easily be benched when the Jays decide is enough is enough.
Same with Biggio. He is what he is and him getting sent down is probably the beginning of the end.
It's the fact you continually f***ing harp on it like you somehow know better than everyone else and then get pissy when people point how much of a dipshit you are.
He's striking out in essentially half his ABs but we don't control the lineup. At the same time it's such a trivial thing to get pissy about because ultimately he's on a one year contract and can easily be benched when the Jays decide is enough is enough.
Same with Biggio. He is what he is and him getting sent down is probably the beginning of the end.
It's the fact you continually f***ing harp on it like you somehow know better than everyone else and then get pissy when people point how much of a dipshit you are.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
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