Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v11 | Wed, Sept 21 | @ NYY | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Berrios vs Cole

[ShaneFalco]

Hazel's interview with Vlad the other day - did she not seem a little pissed? He would talk about how he's hitting well and she'd keep throwing it back at him basically saying, ummm no you're not though

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Eovaldi v Gausman .. it was obvious before game even started .. Eovaldi has top of rotation stuff .. Gausman is at best a 2 guy who you would worry about pitching in a game 2 playoff game .. highlights what Jays Have been missing since world series in 1993 .. we need 2 top of rotation aces who get us 2 wins in this series even when batts are dead .. you can get massively outplayed in baseball and have a 2-2 series outcome .. it all comes down to ACES in clutch games and playoffs .. Ed Rogers can't make his way to da toilet without a screw up .. he is not his dad .. classic next generation screw up .. take a look back to 1992 and 1993 starters .. we had 3/4 guys on each of those teams far far better than Gausman .. MORRIS CONE KEY HENTGEN .. this team has a bunch of excellent 3-5 guys but no one who can take team on their back and pitch a win when required ., those guys would get 2 runs in 1st and its lights out baby .. game over .. see ya tomorrow

 

[LaP]

No argument there.
After what's happened this year, pressure is on to make big changes to get better results.
I just don't think the process heading into this season was really that flawed.

The process maybe was not but the evaluation of some players definitely was. Even if we defend Atkins by saying it was impossible to predict Manoah, Kirk and Vlad terrible seasons i don't think we can use that excuse for Varsho. Varsho had only one relatively good season in career and was 26 already. Yes he's good defensively but offensively he had not shown much over a long period of time. I think he can be a fine defensive center fielder but as a left fielder having to bring offense Atkins dropped the ballon this imo.

I already know what will happen at the end of the season. People will blame Vlad. But let's be honest here even if you add 10 HR and 20 RBI to Vlad (which would bring his OPS up and would be a good season) it doesn't move the needle much. Vlad has a terrible season, he is very frustrating to watch this year and it is a cause for concern but the problems of this team are way deeper. We are depth into October and the Jays have only one 20+ HR player and only one 70+ RBI player.

Jays are 18th for HR. Add 20 HR and they would still be only 14th. Jays are 17th for RBI. Add 30 RBI and they would still be only 12th. Jays are 21st for stolen base. They are 5th for OBP and 7th for 2B which is great but without speed on base it's pretty much useless. I think too many fans don't realize how slow this team is on base. Yes they get on base and they hit doubles. But more often than not a guy at 1st wont score on a double. A guy at 2nd will often not score on a single. A guy at 3rd might not score on a sac fly. Rarely a guy at 1st will go to 3rd on a single. And yeah they don't steal base like ever. As someone who grew up watching Grissom, Walker, Alou and cie man this is hard to watch.

Personally i would not blame the players even if some of them are awful. It's a poorly built team with no power and no speed. It's not a bad team. The players making it are good and would help other teams like Hernandez, Guriel and Moreno are doing this season. It's just poorly built and it's on the GM imo.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

The process maybe was not but the evaluation of some players definitely was. Even if we defend Atkins by saying it was impossible to predict Manoah, Kirk and Vlad terrible seasons i don't think we can use that excuse for Varsho. Varsho had only one relatively good season in career and was 26 already. Yes he's good defensively but offensively he had not shown much over a long period of time. I think he can be a fine defensive center fielder but as a left fielder having to bring offense Atkins dropped the ballon this imo.

I already know what will happen at the end of the season. People will blame Vlad. But let's be honest here even if you add 10 HR and 20 RBI to Vlad (which would bring his OPS up and would be a good season) it doesn't move the needle much. Vlad has a terrible season, he is very frustrating to watch this year and it is a cause for concern but the problems of this team are way deeper. We are depth into October and the Jays have only one 20+ HR player and only one 70+ RBI player.

Jays are 18th for HR. Add 20 HR and they would still be only 14th. Jays are 17th for RBI. Add 30 RBI and they would still be only 12th. Jays are 21st for stolen base. They are 5th for OBP and 7th for 2B which is great but without speed on base it's pretty much useless. I think too many fans don't realize how slow this team is on base. Yes they get on base and they hit doubles. But more often than not a guy at 1st wont score on a double. A guy at 2nd will often not score on a single. A guy at 3rd might not score on a sac fly. Rarely a guy at 1st will go to 3rd on a single. And yeah they don't steal base like ever. As someone who grew up watching Grissom, Walker, Alou and cie man this is hard to watch.

Personally i would not blame the players even if some of them are awful. It's a poorly built team with no power and no speed. It's not a bad team. The players making it are good and would help other teams like Hernandez, Guriel and Moreno are doing this season. It's just poorly built and it's on the GM imo.

Giving a GM credit for having the "right process" is a pretty low bar, but here we are. Assuming there is such a thing as an objectively correct process in baseball, pretty much every team in the league that is competing tries to optimize their roster by making what appear to be the "right" decisions on paper. That's like congratulating a chef for following the recipe but choosing substandard ingredients. Following the recipe is the least you can do. Results still matter, and the front office could have still observed sound processes while acquiring a different group of players. Maybe a Cody Bellinger here instead of a Varsho, moving Kirk instead of Moreno, or even going big with the purported Acuna/Bichette trade. Saying they followed "sound process" ignores the fact that the same thing could still be true with a different set of choices that produced actual results.

 

[GoonieFace]

They fielded a good team. The players choked on it, the manager choked on it. The only thing you can blame Atkins/Shapiro for is hiring Schneider in the first place. Hitting coaches probably should have been canned as well. Now, hopefully they realize the work to be done to turn the ship around

 

[ShaneFalco]

Atkins will be, and should be, fired

 

[DuklaNation]

Varsho is mediocre bat, with power, speed, glove. I don't trade one of the best MLB prospects plus a solid OF bat for him. That's an overpayment.

Kirk is a singles hitter and is too slow. Too flawed a player to be given this much playing time.

The offense as a whole isn't that bad but when you play small ball, got to do it the whole way, not just sometimes.

 

[fancy lad]

They fielded a good team. The players choked on it, the manager choked on it. The only thing you can blame Atkins/Shapiro for is hiring Schneider in the first place. Hitting coaches probably should have been canned as well. Now, hopefully they realize the work to be done to turn the ship around

I'm also not mad at the team they went with other than the managerial choice. I always hated it. schneider was, (i assumed unless i am not remembering it correctly) a freaking INTERIM manager after montoyo got the axe. After that playoff debacle it's still crazy to me that they stuck with him.

As for the team, the only thing i'll say is I didn't mind the moves, but i always thought they were valuing relief pitchers and defence over offence just a little too much. I would think that being a good hitter is harder than the other two, but that's up for debate i think. Still the team on paper was pretty good. good enough i would think.

Kirk is a singles hitter and is too slow. Too flawed a player to be given this much playing time.

that one kills me. We were all kind of blinded by the cute fat kid who played well enough to pick him over someone with so much more to offer. I admit i was guilty of it at the time too.

Fack.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Vlad’s getting plenty of good pitches to hit, he just can’t hit a fastball for some reason.

I think it was 7th inning, two on, two outs, down by 1. Vladdy up, and he got completely gassed on two fastballs right down the pipe. Situation like that you're hoping he'd connect with one for a timely hit.

 

[LaP]

I'm also not mad at the team they went with other than the managerial choice. I always hated it. schneider was, (i assumed unless i am not remembering it correctly) a freaking INTERIM manager after montoyo got the axe. After that playoff debacle it's still crazy to me that they stuck with him.
As for the team, the only thing i'll say is I didn't mind the moves, but i always thought they were valuing relief pitchers and defence over offence just a little too much. I would think that being a good hitter is harder than the other two, but that's up for debate i think. Still the team on paper was pretty good. good enough i would think.
that one kills me. We were all kind of blinded by the cute fat kid who played well enough to pick him over someone with so much more to offer. I admit i was guilty of it at the time too.
Fack.

Fitness was always going to be a problem for Kirk. I expected it to be a problem toward 28-29 years old. Usually a lack of fitness is manageable in the middle of the 20ies. But it was always going to be a problem sooner than later. It's sad cause he has the skills to be a Darrin Fletcher like catcher no doubt in my mind. But he wont be unless he can bring his weight down significantly.

 

[Eyedea]

Eovaldi v Gausman .. it was obvious before game even started .. Eovaldi has top of rotation stuff .. Gausman is at best a 2 guy who you would worry about pitching in a game 2 playoff game .. highlights what Jays Have been missing since world series in 1993 .. we need 2 top of rotation aces who get us 2 wins in this series even when batts are dead .. you can get massively outplayed in baseball and have a 2-2 series outcome .. it all comes down to ACES in clutch games and playoffs .. Ed Rogers can't make his way to da toilet without a screw up .. he is not his dad .. classic next generation screw up .. take a look back to 1992 and 1993 starters .. we had 3/4 guys on each of those teams far far better than Gausman .. MORRIS CONE KEY HENTGEN .. this team has a bunch of excellent 3-5 guys but no one who can take team on their back and pitch a win when required ., those guys would get 2 runs in 1st and its lights out baby .. game over .. see ya tomorrow

Eovaldi has #1 stuff but Gausman doesn't? What am I reading lmao

 

[shaner8989]

Varsho is mediocre bat, with power, speed, glove. I don't trade one of the best MLB prospects plus a solid OF bat for him. That's an overpayment.

Kirk is a singles hitter and is too slow. Too flawed a player to be given this much playing time.

The offense as a whole isn't that bad but when you play small ball, got to do it the whole way, not just sometimes.

Mediocre? Lmao. He’s f***ing trash. I said it at the time of the trade how f***ing pathetic it was and it’s even worse now. Best defensive catcher in baseball and was number 1 prospect in baseball for a pos who can’t even get in the lineup because he’s so f***ing bad.

Quick now someone go try and find some stupid ass stat that shows Varsho to be a good hitter cause that’s how we roll around here.

 

[MK78]

Atkins will be, and should be, fired

Chaim Bloom just became available. LOL.

 

[Eyedea]

Mediocre? Lmao. He’s f***ing trash. I said it at the time of the trade how f***ing pathetic it was and it’s even worse now. Best defensive catcher in baseball and was number 1 prospect in baseball for a pos who can’t even get in the lineup because he’s so f***ing bad.

Quick now someone go try and find some stupid ass stat that shows Varsho to be a good hitter cause that’s how we roll around here.

Varsho’s one of the biggest gamers in baseball Shaner.

 

[MS]

I don’t want to use it as an excuse for the awful performance in that series, but I still can’t get over how terrible the crowds and atmosphere were for that series.

How on earth do you get the smallest crowds of the season for a September series when you’re sitting in a playoff spot playing your biggest rival for that position?

Games in April-May were getting 40k fans with the building hopping. This looked like identical to games in 2018 when they were playing out the string 20 games out.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

The across the board decline in production offensively is so very frustrating.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Eovaldi has #1 stuff but Gausman doesn't? What am I reading lmao

Movement on fastball, when he can bring his fastball, is amazing from A&M to Yanks to Red Sox .. bad luck with injuries for sure .. but when healthy can shut down any team and carry a team on his back to win with no run support .. we need starters who can shut down a game .. BB all about pitching especially in playoffs when hitting goes away

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Movement on fastball, when he can bring his fastball, is amazing from A&M to Yanks to Red Sox .. bad luck with injuries for sure .. but when healthy can shut down any team and carry a team on his back to win with no run support .. we need starters who can shut down a game .. BB all about pitching especially in playoffs when hitting goes away

Gausman is better then Evoladi.

 

[Eyedea]

Movement on fastball, when he can bring his fastball, is amazing from A&M to Yanks to Red Sox .. bad luck with injuries for sure .. but when healthy can shut down any team and carry a team on his back to win with no run support .. we need starters who can shut down a game .. BB all about pitching especially in playoffs when hitting goes away

Gausman has some of the best “stuff” in terms of fastball movement and perceived velocity. He’s been one of the best pitchers in baseball since the covid shortened season and is pretty much in that same tier of the Cole’s and Wheeler’s.

 

[CherryToke]

I don’t want to use it as an excuse for the awful performance in that series, but I still can’t get over how terrible the crowds and atmosphere were for that series.

How on earth do you get the smallest crowds of the season for a September series when you’re sitting in a playoff spot playing your biggest rival for that position?

Games in April-May were getting 40k fans with the building hopping. This looked like identical to games in 2018 when they were playing out the string 20 games out.

Might have something to do with getting caved in vs playoff teams all season. People know what this team is by now.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Hazel's interview with Vlad the other day - did she not seem a little pissed? He would talk about how he's hitting well and she'd keep throwing it back at him basically saying, ummm no you're not though

Why does he continue to use an interpretator?

 

[MK78]

Why does he continue to use an interpretation?

It boggles the mind. There was an all star game interview this year where spoke english pretty damn well. I've been trying to find it but I can't.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Stupid

 

[Lightsol]

I know Vladdy and Springer have underachieved this season which is the primary reason for our lack of offensive production, but in retrospect, I think we would have been better off keeping Hernandez, Gurriel Jr. and Moreno.

Last Year: "Yeah, we need to get rid of Teo and Gurriel! They're embarrassing with all the dancing in the dugout and shit! The team needs to be more serious! Not to mention they're shit defensively and we lost because of it!"
This Year; "Dammit, why didn't we keep Teo and Gurriel even though they sucked defensively? They could hit!"

 

[go_leafs_go02]

Really hope Kirk isn't back next year. Such a liability on the bases.