WJC: 2023 Team Canada Roster Talk Part 2

[ORRFForever]

It is indeed only one game.

I will say this: a lot of the team's ability to come back will come down to the coaches, both in terms of deployment and tactics. My personal opinion is that the 2013 team failed because the coaching was by far the most inept in the tournament, let's hope this staff is creative enough to get things moving in a different direction.

That's fair.

2(?) years ago, Canada started off terribly at the World Championship. HF was throwing dirt on their graves when the adversity brought the team together and they won Gold. Then those same fans who <bleeped> on the team, jumped on the bandwagon.

Same thing happened at the Olympics in 2002 - remember when Sweden kicked our asses in Game ONE ?

It's sickening but it's HFBoards.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

One team showed up to play hard. The other showed up to put on a skills competition.

Was that ''skills competition'' a symptom of championship hangover or more pure cockyness.

Nah jokes aside get your freaking system back on track and even try to compete to win something
your roster supposed to be a best so paly like that and don't underestimte your opponents.

 

[yessir29292]

Just curious what people think for future tournaments. Taking the 2 best goalies then take the future goalie in order to develop them. What could it have hurt taking Gabriel D'Aigle as an extra.

I feel like Canadian goalie development is at its worst ever and needs to be figured out.

That’s what u17 and 18s are for. There’s no chance Canada would put a 16 year old in net, so no point in bringing one.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bedard is very highly hyped, Fantilli is pretty highly hyped, and NHL reinforcements are coveted. Realistically all three are marginal NHLers of course so while Canada gets three top players it isn't like Canada is getting Lemieux and Yzerman in 1985 or Stamkos, Tavares, and O'Reilly in 2010 or something. Bedard can be a difference maker but the jury is out on Fantilli.

Never should have been compared to the 2005 team, as no team since then has been close to that level in talent or actual performance.

I think the bolded is where the hype went off the rails. TSN acted like Canada got 3 players back from the NHL who were playing big roles and had an impact at the NHL level already, so they'd just wipe the floor with junior competition when in fact they got 3 guys back who probably aren't quite NHL ready and are just another in a line of "very very good" junior players at the moment.

Also, Bedard's looked good but Fantilli hasn't. He's trying to be too fancy offensively and he's lost defensively. Hopefully just first game jitters, but if there was ever any talk of Bedard losing his top draft spot to Fantilli, I think we're seeing a massively clear separation between the two.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I'm still flabbergasted Gaudreau made the team. He's been absolutely terrible all season. I don't even know why they brought other goalies to camp, Gaudreau did everything so poorly this year that clearly nothing he could've done was going to get him cut.

 

[ORRFForever]

Was that ''skills competition'' a symptom of championship hangover or more pure cockyness.

The latter. It also came from watching TSN and reading their press clippings.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I think the bolded is where the hype went off the rails. TSN acted like Canada got 3 players back from the NHL who were playing big roles and had an impact at the NHL level already, so they'd just wipe the floor with junior competition when in fact they got 3 guys back who probably aren't quite NHL ready and are just another in a line of "very very good" junior players at the moment.

Also, Bedard's looked good but Fantilli hasn't. He's trying to be too fancy offensively and he's lost defensively. Hopefully just first game jitters, but if there was ever any talk of Bedard losing his top draft spot to Fantilli, I think we're seeing a massively clear separation between the two.

Fantilli just gotta stick to his strengths offensively: size and speed. He has neat hands but his potential is on the boards and getting ready to launch shots, not stickhandling through opponents one-on-one. The defensive gaffe is notable, but that is easy to learn from and I doubt he'll do that again in the near future.

 

[ORRFForever]

Fantilli just gotta stick to his strengths offensively: size and speed. He has neat hands but his potential is on the boards and getting ready to launch shots, not stickhandling through opponents one-on-one. The defensive gaffe is notable, but that is easy to learn from and I doubt he'll do that again in the near future.

Stankoven started off terribly in the summer and, by the end, he was our MVP - behind MacTavish. I sure wish posters (again, NOT directed at you GSJ) would take a time out.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Edit: As an aside, I still don't understand what's the big deal with the Michigan attempts. So long as the player can get the shot off, there is still a practical usage of using them in a one score game. I'd get the distaste if it were perfomed in the middle of a pounding because it is a high skill move, and at that point there's no reason to embarass the opponent.

Like I said in a previous post, for me it wasn't the attempts on their own. It was that it seemed to be a microcosm of the team's mindset that carried over into everything they did where they tried to be highlight reel rather than just play the game.

Brandt Clarke was even quoted as saying as much about their first period performance. Trying to be fancy and playing it up for the fans rather than just getting the job done.

 

[Bubbles]

It's two issues. One, goaltending needs to be improved in Canada regardless of the WJC. Canada can get good goaltending at the WJC without producing a lot of NHL goaltenders, but there is no excuse for the state of Canadian goaltending at the top level. As far as the goaltenders selected, they should stick to the goaltenders who have played the best over the last calendar year or so. Gaudreau was picked solely because of what he did behind a team that apparently stomped the u18 tournament two years ago, and that's irrelevant. His play this year and his play at the camp clearly did not matter.

I'd rather them take three goaltenders even when it is a home tournament but I don't think it's a big deal either way. I don't know what development the third goaltender is going to get in that you're only going to have two goaltenders on the ice for most of the practice anyway and the third guy is very unlikely to touch the ice in a game.

Excellent point. Canadian goaltending has fallen so far in the last 10 year or so. The fall of the Quebec goaltending factory is a huge problem, and a lack of a national development program for goalies is seriously hindering Canada. Many European countries have NDP for goalies and you can see the results.

Canadians are looking at tandem of Jarry and Kuemper at the next major tournament. Yikes.

Even Gord Miller mentioned Milic's outstanding playoff performance last year, which if HC actually watched they would have made Milic the starter.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Not sure why Clarke wasn't on pp1.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Not sure why Clarke wasn't on pp1.

Because Zellweger is better.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Like I said in a previous post, for me it wasn't the attempts on their own. It was that it seemed to be a microcosm of the team's mindset that carried over into everything they did where they tried to be highlight reel rather than just play the game.

Brandt Clarke was even quoted as saying as much about their first period performance. Trying to be fancy and playing it up for the fans rather than just getting the job done.

I can sort of see that perspective. Only issue is that for the majority of its detractors, they wouldn't like it if Canada was playing exceptionally, it's just a big no no for whatever reason.

For what it's worth, Canada has to touch stuff up offensively but my main concern is still on the defensive end (both from forwards and the D), and while I don't think that hit was worthy of an ejection, the standard is set and Canada has to be careful not to kill themselves with such physicality.

 

[MessierII]

This is why I had an issue with the team trying to pull off the Michigan twice in the first period. It wasn't necessarily those two plays on their own, it was more how it seemed to encapsulate the mindset this team had throughout the game where they were trying to hotdog and be too fancy instead of play a winning style of game. Toe drags, constant tick-tack-toe passing when a clear shot was available, trying to stickhandle around all five opponents, etc. That's what Canada was doing for too much of the game tonight.

Hopefully tonight was the wake up call they needed to actually go back to playing sound hockey.

The Michigan is fine if you score. If you don’t score why are you trying a Michigan?

 

[novisor]

I'm not too worried about the loss. Face some adversity now, rather than in the medal round (a la 2021 team vs USA). I am also glad that the Czechs seem to be on the upside, which is welcomed (especially given no Russia at the tournament). Would like to seem them medal soon.

About the penalty: whether it's by the (IIHF) book or not, that kind of call needs to become a thing of the past. That was not a hit to the head, anyone who thinks otherwise probably wants hitting out of the game altogether. Stop ruining the sport.

Those challenges for offsides need to go as well. Being offside by a c*** hair is not the purpose of the rule. Ridiculous.

 

[novisor]

I think the bolded is where the hype went off the rails. TSN acted like Canada got 3 players back from the NHL who were playing big roles and had an impact at the NHL level already, so they'd just wipe the floor with junior competition when in fact they got 3 guys back who probably aren't quite NHL ready and are just another in a line of "very very good" junior players at the moment.

Also, Bedard's looked good but Fantilli hasn't. He's trying to be too fancy offensively and he's lost defensively. Hopefully just first game jitters, but if there was ever any talk of Bedard losing his top draft spot to Fantilli, I think we're seeing a massively clear separation between the two.

Aren't NHL players who are in this tournament by definition not 100% NHL ready? Otherwise they wouldn't be released.

Minus 2013 RNH, 2005 Bergeron.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Not that it would have made any difference over last night's game, but I still don't understand how Ryan Greene got cut.

I mean I know why. He played junior hockey in America, so Hockey Canada is biased against that.

But he's better than at least a quarter of the guys that made the roster.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Aren't NHL players who are in this tournament by definition not 100% NHL ready? Otherwise they wouldn't be released.

Minus 2013 RNH, 2005 Bergeron.

Guenther has 11 points in in 21 games, I think it's tough to argue he's not NHL ready. But Arizona isn't trying to win.

 

[Mathieukferland]

TSN showed that this was the sixth time in tournament history that Canada did not win its opening game. Results of the other five times:

1979: 5th
1980: 5th
1984: 4th
1998: 8th
2016: 6th

The 1979 and 1980 tournaments don't mean much as Canada was still just sending the Memorial Cup champions plus a few ringers, but the results in the other three years are very poor. The 1998 team notable fell apart when faced with further adversity and the 2016 team displayed a terrible attitude and never seemed willing to accept that there was a problem. This is more trivia than anything else however. We'll see where things stand after the New Year's Eve game.

Here’s another one


The last two times Canada had a coach From the WHL, they lost both times in the quarter final…

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm not too worried about the loss. Face some adversity now, rather than in the medal round (a la 2021 team vs USA). I am also glad that the Czechs seem to be on the upside, which is welcomed (especially given no Russia at the tournament). Would like to seem them medal soon.

About the penalty: whether it's by the (IIHF) book or not, that kind of call needs to become a thing of the past. That was not a hit to the head, anyone who thinks otherwise probably wants hitting out of the game altogether. Stop ruining the sport.

Those challenges for offsides need to go as well. Being offside by a c*** hair is not the purpose of the rule. Ridiculous.

I agree.

My only problem is your final paragraph. I agree, it's a pain, but I'm not sure how you split that "hair" your mentioned because, it's either offside or onside, with nothing in between.

I might change the rule to say, "Once the puck has been in the zone for more than 10(?) seconds, there is no review". Of course, people will argue about 10.1 or 10.9 seconds so there is no easy answer.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The same Clarke that was all over the ice tonight? End to end rush to boot.

Dude was pretty handily the best D in the offensive zone, and he didn’t hurt anything in his own end.

The dude needs more minutes.

He played great but he’s gotta learn to hit the hit if he’s going to just keep loading up shots from the point.

 

[Trash Panda]

He played great but he’s gotta learn to hit the hit if he’s going to just keep loading up shots from the point.

Kinda like the goal he scored that was called back for offsides?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah I have no idea what he will do. The powerplay unit is fine. Other than that some changes need to be made. If the depth lines are not going to be utilized in the way we expected (getting in hard on the forecheck) then he needs to spread around some of the dynamic players to make the other lines threatening.

Fantilli needs to be moved to 13th forward position. He completely neutralized his own line and made two costly plays the directly resulted in goals against.

He’ll be a decent player but he’s out of league right now.

Kinda like the goal he scored that was called back for offsides?

Yes. That’s why I said he needs to hit the net.
The other like 8 times he wired it high and wide don’t help help the team

 

[ColbyChaos]

Because Zellweger is better.

Korchinski is better than both but the silvertips coach being team Canadas coach was going to produce some favoritism to his guys he already coaches

 

[Scheifele55]

Someone educate me why not only is Benjamin Gaudreau on Team Canada but he is starting. WHY? He is not even the best goalie on the Sarnia Sting and his numbers are AWFUL! 3.62 GAA, .868 Save %! This team has an almost .600 win % and he's 9-8-3. I know OHL scoring is up, however, his .868 save % is not WJHC like.