HF Habs: 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread

[waitin425]

Xhekaj is not a 2nd pairing defender. You have some real rose-coloured glasses if you think that.

Mailloux is not a top pair anything either. He can’t defend.

Mailloux defended just fine this weekend when I watched him. He is learning pretty quickly to close gaps, utilize his body and long reach and cut off defenders from high percentage areas. Admittedly it is his weakness at this point, but he is most definitely a top pairing at his current role. I've watched him live 3 times this year, and caught a few games on TV. He is improving with each week, and his development curve indicates to me that he has top pairing potential in the NHL.

Without his sordid past, he would have been at the TC selection camp and quite possibly made this team.

Xhekaj is playing like a 2nd pairing right now.

 

[le_sean]

Mailloux defended just fine this weekend when I watched him. He is learning pretty quickly to close gaps, utilize his body and long reach and cut off defenders from high percentage areas. Admittedly it is his weakness at this point, but he is most definitely a top pairing at his current role. I've watched him live 3 times this year, and caught a few games on TV. He is improving with each week, and his development curve indicates to me that he has top pairing potential in the NHL.

Without his sordid past, he would have been at the TC selection camp and quite possibly made this team.

Xhekaj is playing like a 2nd pairing right now.

Analytically we are awful at defence so Xhekaj playing that role means nothing. He is not someone you want pencilled in there. Could he become one? Maybe. But right now he’s got stretches of bad games and then some decent ones.

I also don’t think you want that type of defenceman as a top-4. You never want those guys fighting semi-regularly. Just my opinion.

 

[waitin425]

Caufield is relevant to our future. Allen is not.

How do you not understand this.


If Hutson is the next Scott Niedermeyer and and Mailloux the next Chris Pronger — maybe the Habs will have relevant and good enough depth. But this is yet another case of a Habs fan counting our chickens before they bust.

It’s improbable that all your listed players remain relevant and good and part of a competitive Habs team… AND are better than other teams in the NHL.

Your advocating for adding more eggs to the roost so that we have a greater chance they became chickens. I get it.

But feeding our currently hatched chickens a steady diet of organic corn (ie wins) vs. that tough to digest flint corn (ie losses) may in fact result with a stronger roost of chickens that help to strengthen the flock and encourage growth for the yet to hatch eggs.

I'd rather build a strong flock over the Edmonton Oilers.

 

[DAChampion]

But this is yet another case of a Habs fan counting our chickens before they bust.

10/10 wordsmithing !

 

[1909]

Analytically we are awful at defence so Xhekaj playing that role means nothing. He is not someone you want pencilled in there. Could he become one? Maybe. But right now he’s got stretches of bad games and then some decent ones.

I also don’t think you want that type of defenceman as a top-4. You never want those guys fighting semi-regularly. Just my opinion.

4 fights in 26 games is not that often. But, I agree that right now, he is a bottom-pairing guy who can play between 14 and 17 minutes per game,

 

[BergevinBurner]

If both our pick and Florida's pick end up being around top 10 picks, I wonder if management will try to trade 1 of them for a young player already in the league. Similar to the Dach and DeBrincat trades last draft.

 

[ReimanSum1908]

Analytically we are awful at defence so Xhekaj playing that role means nothing. He is not someone you want pencilled in there. Could he become one? Maybe. But right now he’s got stretches of bad games and then some decent ones.

I also don’t think you want that type of defenceman as a top-4. You never want those guys fighting semi-regularly. Just my opinion.

Thank you for that dose of realism in the analysis of the contingent of young defensemen, particularly the tantalizing yet clearly-overrated-at-this-juncture Xhekaj; too many are enamored with his physical tools and attitude, blinding them to many of his deficiencies. Although that's true of others as well, who should be expected to struggle and develop further given their ages.

 

[ReHabs]

Your advocating for adding more eggs to the roost so that we have a greater chance they became chickens. I get it.

But feeding our currently hatched chickens a steady diet of organic corn (ie wins) vs. that tough to digest flint corn (ie losses) may in fact result with a stronger roost of chickens that help to strengthen the flock and encourage growth for the yet to hatch eggs.

I'd rather build a strong flock over the Edmonton Oilers.

View attachment 620887

Im not a big tank guy but this is a lost season and Allen is stealing Ws in games we should otherwise lose. If that doesn’t annoy you then fine, we disagree.

Your analogy falls apart too — not all ‘chickens’ are equal. We want elite players not warm bodies. This is a famously top-heavy draft and bozo HuGo have the Habs trending out of the bottom10 but not in the playoffs. It must be fixed asap.

 

[waitin425]

Im not a big tank guy but this is a lost season and Allen is stealing Ws in games we should otherwise lose. If that doesn’t annoy you then fine, we disagree.

After our next loss Ill be a tank guy again. Just riding the wave. I know we will finish with the 12th to 16th pick. That does suck.

 

[ReHabs]

After our next loss Ill be a tank guy again. Just riding the wave. I know we will finish with the 12th to 16th pick. That does suck.

So you agree that Allen, who is irrelevant to our future, is f***ing up the tank.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Your advocating for adding more eggs to the roost so that we have a greater chance they became chickens. I get it.

But feeding our currently hatched chickens a steady diet of organic corn (ie wins) vs. that tough to digest flint corn (ie losses) may in fact result with a stronger roost of chickens that help to strengthen the flock and encourage growth for the yet to hatch eggs.

I'd rather build a strong flock over the Edmonton Oilers.

View attachment 620887

I’m going out on a limb here and assuming you’re a chicken farmer

 

[waitin425]

So you agree that Allen, who is irrelevant to our future, is f***ing up the tank.

Yes I agree.

But I'm on the fence if a tank is needed. There are benefits to winning as well as I tried to explain above.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Ok, but what the other…. 16 conditions

The other conditions are basically around Calgary also having Florida's 1st round pick due to Tkachuk trade. We COULD end up with Florida's pick in 2025 instead.

We receive the BETTER of the picks if neither is top 10.

We receive the pick that isn't top 10, if one pick is in top 10 & one isn't.

However, if Florida's 2025 1st is a lottery pick (top 2) then Calgary doesn't get that one. It transfers to 2026.

So there's sub-scenarios, if Calgary doesn't have Florida's 2025 1st.

Our best scenario is to pass on 2024. Hope Florida wins the lottery, and that Calgary finishes bottom 5 (only pick #1 is protected) in that scenario. Or, hope they both finish bottom 10.

If Calgary's pick is #1 OA, we get the better of Florida's & Calgary's picks in 2026 - unprotected.

We also get additional draft picks depending on how long we have to wait, or if either pick gets traded.

I'd wait on 2025.

 

[26Mats]

I never said the Monahan trade was bad.

The fact is Allen is not a good goalie but he's been stealing games. If you can't deal with that observation in the Tank discussion then maybe you shouldn't read these comments.

Well I'll say it: the Monahan trade might be bad. Even if we get a 1st for him at the TDL, getting two late round picks may end up being worse than getting a top 3 pick this year - if that's what we would have gotten had we not had Monahan. We'll see how much different the team is without him...

 

[le_sean]

Im not a big tank guy but this is a lost season and Allen is stealing Ws in games we should otherwise lose. If that doesn’t annoy you then fine, we disagree.

Your analogy falls apart too — not all ‘chickens’ are equal. We want elite players not warm bodies. This is a famously top-heavy draft and bozo HuGo have the Habs trending out of the bottom10 but not in the playoffs. It must be fixed asap.

Just some context about the season he’s having. Sucks more for the Coyotes who were built to suck and would have like 10 points if it wasn’t for Vejmelka.

 

[rahad]

That is debatable.

Blues - 2019
Kings - 2014 and 2012
Bruins - 2011
Ducks - 2007
Hurricanes - 2006
Lightning - 2004
Devils - 2003

You get the picture.

Our current crop can reach the depth levels of those Stanley Cup winners above.

Suzuki, CC, Dach, Slaf, Guhle, Xhekaj, Hutson, Mailloux

could reach the levels of ....

ROR, Tank, Pietro, Schenn, etc
Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Williams, etc.
Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Doughty, Richards, etc
Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Chara, etc
Selanne, Kunitz, Pronger, Niedermayer, Getz, Perry, Etc
Staal, Williams, Stillman, Brindamour, Frantisek Kaberle (?), etc. lol
Marty, Stillman, Richards, Lecavalier, Dan Boyle, Kubina
Elias, Langenbrunner, Gomez, Rafalski, Neidermeyer.

Our missing piece is probably a goalie at this point, which can be had anywhere in the draft with a little luck.

Dude are you serious? DO you see any Selke trophies winners in the habs roster like Bergeron, ROR or Kopitar (elite 2 way center). If Suzuki become as good as Kopitar , we might have a chance.

Don't see any Norris winner like Doughty, Norris lvl of D like Chara, Pronger, Niedermayer Pietro

Or maybe 50 goals/90+points like Lecavalier (6ft4 center)....

I could be wrong. But your list have multiple 90+ points players in it.....
Multiple future Hall of famer....

 

[Gravity]

Dude are you serious? DO you see any Selke trophies winners in the habs roster like Bergeron, ROR or Kopitar (elite 2 way center). If Suzuki become as good as Kopitar , we might have a chance.

Don't see any Norris winner like Doughty, Norris lvl of D like Chara, Pronger, Niedermayer Pietro

Or maybe 50 goals/90+points like Lecavalier (6ft4 center)....

I could be wrong. But your list have multiple 90+ points players in it.....
Multiple future Hall of famer....

Suzuki shooting at 26% has f***ed with some people's brains creating unrealistic expectations

 

[waitin425]

Dude are you serious? DO you see any Selke trophies winners in the habs roster like Bergeron, ROR or Kopitar (elite 2 way center). If Suzuki become as good as Kopitar , we might have a chance.

Don't see any Norris winner like Doughty, Norris lvl of D like Chara, Pronger, Niedermayer Pietro

Or maybe 50 goals/90+points like Lecavalier (6ft4 center)....

I could be wrong. But your list have multiple 90+ points players in it.....
Multiple future Hall of famer....

Very serious.

Suzuki is regularly compared to the likes of Bergeron and ROR.

Guhle is establishing himself at the tender age of 21 and his ceiling is in fact in the top 10 defencemen.

Caufield is playing like an absolute stud and future 40-50 goal scorer.

You are in fact very wrong about the multiple 90+ points players. The only player in that list to score more than 90 points in the year they won the cup was Staal (100+).

My argument was highlighting the fact that to win the cup you dont need a superstar forward. That you could win the cup with some very good players and depth. Many of the players who won cups in those years went on to have better individual years or had previously had them, but my point was to highlight you can win cups with superb depth.

Edit...Marty had 94 the year they won the cup and Teemu had 94

For example....Look at this lineup....

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Just some context about the season he’s having. Sucks more for the Coyotes who were built to suck and would have like 10 points if it wasn’t for Vejmelka.

I mean, it shows Allen is middle of the pack goaltender, which we all kind of knew. He has off games & the odd slump, but is generally consistently ok.

Buffalo looked into trading for him last summer. Apparently, Montreal wanted a 1st. Buffalo said, no. Now look where they are. Bottom of the league again.

Pretty sure if Sabres had offered pick #28, Allen is a Sabre right now. At some point, Sabres need to get off the tank train and start building.

 

[waitin425]

I mean, it shows Allen is middle of the pack goaltender, which we all kind of knew. He has off games & the odd slump, but is generally consistently ok.

Buffalo looked into trading for him last summer. Apparently, Montreal wanted a 1st. Buffalo said, no. Now look where they are. Bottom of the league again.

Pretty sure if Sabres had offered pick #28, Allen is a Sabre right now. At some point, Sabres need to get off the tank train and start building.

Do you think we could swing a trade today with the Sabres for Allen?

Allen for the Sabres top 10 protected pick. Shifts to next year otherwise?

 

[rahad]

Very serious.

Suzuki is regularly compared to the likes of Bergeron and ROR.

Guhle is establishing himself at the tender age of 21 and his ceiling is in fact in the top 10 defencemen.

Caufield is playing like an absolute stud and future 40-50 goal scorer.

You are in fact very wrong about the multiple 90+ points players. The only player in that list to score more than 90 points in the year they won the cup was Staal (100+).

My argument was highlighting the fact that to win the cup you dont need a superstar forward. That you could win the cup with some very good players and depth. Many of the players who won cups in those years went on to have better individual years or had previously had them, but my point was to highlight you can win cups with superb depth.

Edit...Marty had 94 the year they won the cup and Teemu had 94

For example....Look at this lineup....

View attachment 620916

By who? I like to know who regulary compare Suzuki to Patrice Bergeron? Beside habs fanboy, I don't see any comparison. You do know that list have multiple hall of famer right?

Niedermayer , Pronger.... You see any of our player with the same career as Niedermayer or Pronger?

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Do you think we could swing a trade today with the Sabres for Allen?

Allen for the Sabres top 10 protected pick. Shifts to next year otherwise.

I don't see them trading a 2023 pick for Allen if they refused to trade a late 2022 pick. I just think they're really dumb not to have done it when they had 2 other higher 1st round picks, and a total of 6 picks in top 100.

There comes a point in a tank job, where a team needs to start trading assets for players to "build" a team. Think of NJ picking up a goalie & a D through trades of picks & young players (Ty Smith). Then also adding through UFA this last off-season.

Buffalo isn't doing any of that. They're being cheap.

They do have three 2nd round picks this year. I'd take Buffalo & Philadelphia's 2nd round picks for Allen & the rights to Devon Levi.

 

[waitin425]

By who? I like to know who regulary compare Suzuki to Patrice Bergeron? Beside habs fanboy, I don't see any comparison. You do know that list have multiple hall of famer right?

Niedermayer , Pronger.... You see any of our player with the same career as Niedermayer or Pronger?

Man if you don't see potential in our young core, that is completely fine. I am not going to say Mailloux or Barron or Harris or Hutson is our next Neidermeyer and I am not going to say Guhle or Xhekaj is our next Pronger. Our team in this very moment is not a Cup Contender.

But we have many pieces in place to grow from. And those players above could very well end up having HOF careers. Suzuki has elite potential and could very well have a career arc like Bergeron or ROR. Plenty of posters over the year have made those comparables. Sure I'm a fanboy. Or, more accurately just a fan of our team. You know, being a Habs fan is not a derogatory term. Being an optimist and hoping that some of our players reach their potential is not being blinded by "fanboy" optimism.

The initial argument that sparked all of this, was tank or not to tank. Only in Habsland will advocating for the benefits of winning, and players reaching potential will have you labeled as a "fanboy".

If you desire a tank, feel free to go for it. I for one would love a top 5 pick this year. But, I'm not a tank at all costs kind of guy. Some winning can have benefits long term to our rebuild.

 

[DAChampion]

I honestly think that this season could not be going better in terms of medium-term potential for the franchise. The Habs:

1) Can expect two picks in the range 6-15, leaving aside lottery fluctuations.
2) At least one more pick in the 17-32 range by trading one or many of Edmundson, Savard, Anderson, Dvorak, Monahan
3) Excellent progression of young players on the roster: Slafkovsky, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris, Suzuki, Dach, Caulfield
4) Excellent progression of several prospects, such as Barron, Mailloux, Farrel, Hutson, EDIT: Also Roy, Beck, Mesar.
5) Drouin's contract will be coming off the books.

What else can you reasonably expect?

 

[JoelWarlord]

I wouldn't worry too much about Allen ruining the tank. He hasn't had his annual 6-8 week injury yet and even his good play this year has amounted to a .901 playing a heavy #1 goalie workload. Throughout his career, he's always stumbled with a bigger workload, and they've played him a lot so far this year (19 of 28 games). He's been good so far but it's a long season and there are still 50+ games remaining and a lot of runway for him to run cold at the same time Caufield/Suzuki hit a shooting slump.

Looking at things overall even with a very good early run of goaltending, red hot top line, and a surprisingly effective group of rookie defencemen, the Habs are still only in 20th place in the league and just 5 points up on Philly for 27th. There's a lot of time left for things to drop off when we stop getting the bounces and the goaltending luck. Bottom five is likely out of reach, but it is what it is, I don't think trading Allen and picking up another Montembeault gets us there.