Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VIII - Chaim Bloom FIRED

[Dennis Bonvie]

In fact, as a little tack on to my past post, I have a pretty bold prediction. I accept saying I'm wrong if this is not the case, but I think we will see foreign multinationals and sovereign wealth funds start buying up MLB teams and I think the Boston Red Sox, as well as the New York Yankees, will become one of them. Whether it is Saudi's PIF, the Al Nayan family from the UAE, Qatari Sports Group, Softbank in Japan, it doesn't matter. Within a decade, I see John Henry selling the Red Sox and NESN up to a foreign investment fund so he can focus on Liverpool, the Penguins, as well as looking at buying an NFL team and maybe even dip back in and buy the Pirates off Bob Nutting.

And you know what the sad thing is about all of that? I'd probably be okay with it.

Your best post ever.

It’s from fangraphs. The point was that there is established talent on this team. Cora wasn’t given nothing, which is what some act like. There is literally no other point.

Not on the pitching staff.

Unless you mean "once upon a time" talent.

 

[CDJ]

Half of us knew in the 6th inning on Monday that we would be losing to the Royals. How could you look the players in the eye after you crushed their season and tell them you’re doing their best for them?

 

[KrejciMVP]

the redsox should show up to work today and act like professionals and play. I don't see the royals moping and they arent it in. This organization needs a complete change from ownership down its so obvious. stop being the boston crysox

 

[CDJ]

Your best post ever.



Not on the pitching staff.

Unless you mean "once upon a time" talent.

There’s talent on the pitching staff. The bullpen is fine- they have one of the better 8th/9th tandems in baseball. The rotation has been awful for the past month but from May-July it was good. There’s injuries and some guys have worn down (Paxton to the max) but it’s not a team that should win only 70 games and Cora has not been a miracle worker with this group no matter what some people want to believe. They came in projected to be an average team with a little upside depending on what some young guys did and they’re going to finish average, largely in part due to bad defense (Bloom’s fault) + unintelligent and uninspired baseball devoid of fundamentals (Cora’s fault)…..which if that’s not at least partially on the coach then idk what the f*** the point of coaching is

I don’t blame bad defense on Cora- well, outside of when he kept stubbornly trotting his adopted child Kikè out to SS to continue to cost us games despite having shrewd front office acquisition Pablo Reyes on the roster. There were times Pablo played 2B and Kikè played SS- LMFAO.

I do blame dumb baseball devoid of fundamentals on him. That just means the team lacks focus and isn’t connecting with the manager. And it’s been a couple years of this now, and this years roster is pretty different than last years and even had a different leadership core


I actually don’t mind the pitching staff, I think their lives have been made difficult by the defense. And no, infield practice isn’t saving them. That’s not on Cora. There have been so many errors called hits- Raffy alone has made 10 of them- and this just adds to pitch counts and causes the bullpen to be taxed earlier. That’s in addition to the runs the errors directly cause, and boy does it seem like they always do lead to runs.

 

[KrejciMVP]

And just so I am clear, by all means fire Cora. But don't then turn around and argue Bloom should keep his job.

And yes, managers these days do what the GM/analytics say to do. Remember Kevin Cash in the WS? If Cora sabotaged the game he'd be out on his ass right now.

Cora will land on his feet managing a well built team. Any manager will struggle with this flawed Bloom team. Their pitching just isnt built to compete with the contenders. Bats can only carry you so far

 

[EvilDead]

Your best post ever.

Tell me why Henry wouldn't sell this team. What reason does he have to stay here? What's keeping him connected to the Red Sox and the city of Boston? Every single move since 2019 has reeked of cost cutting and getting ready to prime the team for a sale. Nothing tells me he's committed here long term. Nothing tells me Tom Werner's committed long term. It all smells of priming the team for a sale to the highest bidder because Henry's bored and is more interested in vacations with his new wife rather than building a winner. On top of that, Henry and Werner have done this before with the Marlins and Padres. They've done the exact same things whenever they want to prime an asset for sale. Please tell me how this isn't FSG getting ready to move on at some point in the next decade? Henry's 73 and so is Werner. At the very least they will listen to offers so they can sell and go off into the sunset, at most they want to flip a big asset and move on to something that requires less attention which would be a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates. Silvio Berlusconi did the exact same thing when he sold AC Milan in 2017 and then moved on to own AC Monza only a year later and ran it until his death this year.

Edit: misread the post, my bad

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Tell me why Henry wouldn't sell this team. What reason does he have to stay here? What's keeping him connected to the Red Sox and the city of Boston? Every single move since 2019 has reeked of cost cutting and getting ready to prime the team for a sale. Nothing tells me he's committed here long term. Nothing tells me Tom Werner's committed long term. It all smells of priming the team for a sale to the highest bidder because Henry's bored and is more interested in vacations with his new wife rather than building a winner. On top of that, Henry and Werner have done this before with the Marlins and Padres. They've done the exact same things whenever they want to prime an asset for sale. Please tell me how this isn't FSG getting ready to move on at some point in the next decade? Henry's 73 and so is Werner. At the very least they will listen to offers so they can sell and go off into the sunset, at most they want to flip a big asset and move on to something that requires less attention which would be a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates. Silvio Berlusconi did the exact same thing when he sold AC Milan in 2017 and then moved on to own AC Monza only a year later and ran it until his death this year.

Your best post ever was not sarcasm.

I agreed.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

There’s talent on the pitching staff. The bullpen is fine- they have one of the better 8th/9th tandems in baseball. The rotation has been awful for the past month but from May-July it was good. There’s injuries and some guys have worn down (Paxton to the max) but it’s not a team that should win only 70 games and Cora has not been a miracle worker with this group no matter what some people want to believe. They came in projected to be an average team with a little upside depending on what some young guys did and they’re going to finish average, largely in part due to bad defense (Bloom’s fault) + unintelligent and uninspired baseball devoid of fundamentals (Cora’s fault)…..which if that’s not at least partially on the coach then idk what the f*** the point of coaching is

I don’t blame bad defense on Cora- well, outside of when he kept stubbornly trotting his adopted child Kikè out to SS to continue to cost us games despite having shrewd front office acquisition Pablo Reyes on the roster. There were times Pablo played 2B and Kikè played SS- LMFAO.

I do blame dumb baseball devoid of fundamentals on him. That just means the team lacks focus and isn’t connecting with the manager. And it’s been a couple years of this now, and this years roster is pretty different than last years and even had a different leadership core


I actually don’t mind the pitching staff, I think their lives have been made difficult by the defense. And no, infield practice isn’t saving them. That’s not on Cora. There have been so many errors called hits- Raffy alone has made 10 of them- and this just adds to pitch counts and causes the bullpen to be taxed earlier. That’s in addition to the runs the errors directly cause, and boy does it seem like they always do lead to runs.

Good points on team defense. Definitely hurt the pitching staff.

Still, its a crappy staff.

 

[EvilDead]

Ah so now we have figured out a way to blame the players giving up on their manager on Bloom. How about the manager actually commands respect? That’s 90% of the job!

Cora won with a stacked roster and some cheating 5 years ago but by all means, keep doing mental gymnastics for a guy that the players have lost respect for (and deservedly so, he quit on them first)

Yes...he won when he had the most stacked MLB team in history and was essentially the KC Jones of the 2018 Boston Red Sox. Thank you for proving my point. He had little to nothing to do with that team's success. If anything...outside of being a motivational speaker and peer to the players, he was essentially reading off the notes of the front office. Anyone could have won with that Red Sox team. Anyone. The only reason Farrell didn't because David Price was being a pill and causing problems to the point that they needed a player's manager. Now take a wild guess as to what Cora is.

When the Bruins tuned out Claude they replaced him and immediately got to the cup with the same core after not being a playoff team. Must have been Sweeney’s fault! Claude was even more successful and didn’t cheat the game! Probably why he commanded respect longer tbh

The Bruins got a lucky bounce to get into that Stanley Cup finals by not having to play Tampa Bay. If Columbus doesn't win that series, the Lightning would've won because the Bruins were always at a mismatch with that team. I love that era of the team, but the 2010s Bruins' core wasn't on the same level of the Blackhawks, Kings, Penguins, and Lightning. They were good. Don't get me wrong. They were very good, in fact. The Bruins were always in it, but lack of depth when the injuries piled up always killed them come playoff time while those Kings, Blackhawks, Pens, and Lightning teams were wagons.

Your best post ever was not sarcasm.

I agreed.

Didn't mean to be hostile, my apologies.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Half of us knew in the 6th inning on Monday that we would be losing to the Royals. How could you look the players in the eye after you crushed their season and tell them you’re doing their best for them?

He's gonna keep this bit up but not acknowledge the GM punted at trade deadline. I respect it at this point.

Again, if Cora deliberately sabotaged a game he'd be gone by now.

 

[Johnnyduke]

It’s from fangraphs. The point was that there is established talent on this team. Cora wasn’t given nothing, which is what some act like. There is literally no other point.

Where's that stat about innings from starting pitching and how the Red Sox only beat out the Oakland As?

And if you want to try and blame it on Cora pulling guys too early, the 3rd time through thing is something we constantly hear about. From fans on here, from analytical savants etc. I know it's a tough pickle to be in!

 

[GatorMike]

Two years ago, Cora had a far less talented roster two games away from the World Series.

I find it difficult to believe that he's gotten dumber over the past two seasons.

The talent just isn't up to playoff standards at the moment. It's getting better, but it's not there yet.

 

[BMC]

Because the game's changed drastictally in the decade since Francona got fired and arguably, at least in the United States, for the worse. Nowadays they hand managers a three ring binder on how they should manage a damn baseball game rather than allowing the managers themselves get a feel for the flow of the game and make their own decisions. The games are very rarely ran by the managers in the dugouts these days. Prime evidence of this is with the decisions made by Dave Roberts when the Sox won in 2018. All the erroneous decisions he made were informed by a strategy outlined by the Dodgers' analytics department in that three ringed binder. The games are ran by the people up top in the front office. Which is why it's all the more frustrating when Bloom makes these roster decisions that flop and everyone could've told you that they would've flopped.

This isn't to say Cora's some great manager. He isn't. He was brought in to be a peer to keep locker room cohesion, because most of the manager's decisions are thought out for him and taken out of his hands. Cora's just a scapegoat for Bloom to hide behind so he can get his next puppet for any future kabuki theater distractions to deflect blame to when the team the front office assembled does bad. If Bloom wants to build trust in the front office, he should open dialogue with the players in it and stop playing backseat manager. Hell, if he wants to be manager so bad, he should get down from his perch and get in the trenches. He doesn't have to think. His analytics binder will tell him the answers he needs.

There is so much truth in this post I wish I could love it more than once.

Analytics is sucking the life out of baseball much as it is in hockey. Stats can be very helpful in identifying trends in production but front offices are now treating them like Gospel & not to be deviated from in any way shape or form. It sucks and I hate it.

 

[GatorMike]

Tell me why Henry wouldn't sell this team. What reason does he have to stay here? What's keeping him connected to the Red Sox and the city of Boston? Every single move since 2019 has reeked of cost cutting and getting ready to prime the team for a sale. Nothing tells me he's committed here long term. Nothing tells me Tom Werner's committed long term. It all smells of priming the team for a sale to the highest bidder because Henry's bored and is more interested in vacations with his new wife rather than building a winner. On top of that, Henry and Werner have done this before with the Marlins and Padres. They've done the exact same things whenever they want to prime an asset for sale. Please tell me how this isn't FSG getting ready to move on at some point in the next decade? Henry's 73 and so is Werner. At the very least they will listen to offers so they can sell and go off into the sunset, at most they want to flip a big asset and move on to something that requires less attention which would be a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates. Silvio Berlusconi did the exact same thing when he sold AC Milan in 2017 and then moved on to own AC Monza only a year later and ran it until his death this year.

Does an owner with one foot out the door continue to upgrade the stadium? Does he build the MGM Music Hall? Does he commit $1.6 billion to the Fenway Corners project?

 

[RoccoF14]

29 Rarity Score on the Immaculate Grid today. Pretty easy grid, but I lucked out with a Hail Mary on the Yankee/Rockie spot...

 

[KrejciMVP]

Does an owner with one foot out the door continue to upgrade the stadium? Does he build the MGM Music Hall? Does he commit $1.6 billion to the Fenway Corners project?

grasping at straws now. This has nothing to do with the product on the diamond

He's gonna keep this bit up but not acknowledge the GM punted at trade deadline. I respect it at this point.

Again, if Cora deliberately sabotaged a game he'd be gone by now.

sabotaging games is so absurd

 

[GatorMike]

grasping at straws now. This has nothing to do with the product on the diamond

Right. Because the discussion was whether or not FSG was getting ready to sell. My point was that ownership groups that are getting ready to bail on a franchise don't move forward with billion dollar construction projects.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yes...he won when he had the most stacked MLB team in history and was essentially the KC Jones of the 2018 Boston Red Sox. Thank you for proving my point. He had little to nothing to do with that team's success. If anything...outside of being a motivational speaker and peer to the players, he was essentially reading off the notes of the front office. Anyone could have won with that Red Sox team. Anyone. The only reason Farrell didn't because David Price was being a pill and causing problems to the point that they needed a player's manager. Now take a wild guess as to what Cora is.



The Bruins got a lucky bounce to get into that Stanley Cup finals by not having to play Tampa Bay. If Columbus doesn't win that series, the Lightning would've won because the Bruins were always at a mismatch with that team. I love that era of the team, but the 2010s Bruins' core wasn't on the same level of the Blackhawks, Kings, Penguins, and Lightning. They were good. Don't get me wrong. They were very good, in fact. The Bruins were always in it, but lack of depth when the injuries piled up always killed them come playoff time while those Kings, Blackhawks, Pens, and Lightning teams were wagons.



Didn't mean to be hostile, my apologies.

You're not much of a baseball historian, eh?

 

[CDJ]

29 Rarity Score on the Immaculate Grid today. Pretty easy grid, but I lucked out with a Hail Mary on the Yankee/Rockie spot...

Spoiler: Grid

One of my better rounds today

 

[Fenway]

Tell me why Henry wouldn't sell this team. What reason does he have to stay here? What's keeping him connected to the Red Sox and the city of Boston? Every single move since 2019 has reeked of cost cutting and getting ready to prime the team for a sale. Nothing tells me he's committed here long term. Nothing tells me Tom Werner's committed long term. It all smells of priming the team for a sale to the highest bidder because Henry's bored and is more interested in vacations with his new wife rather than building a winner. On top of that, Henry and Werner have done this before with the Marlins and Padres. They've done the exact same things whenever they want to prime an asset for sale. Please tell me how this isn't FSG getting ready to move on at some point in the next decade? Henry's 73 and so is Werner. At the very least they will listen to offers so they can sell and go off into the sunset, at most they want to flip a big asset and move on to something that requires less attention which would be a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates. Silvio Berlusconi did the exact same thing when he sold AC Milan in 2017 and then moved on to own AC Monza only a year later and ran it until his death this year.

Edit: misread the post, my bad

The only reason John Henry might not sell is Queen Linda.

The Queen is now one of the most powerful people in Boston because of the Sox and Globe.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Two years ago, Cora had a far less talented roster two games away from the World Series.

I find it difficult to believe that he's gotten dumber over the past two seasons.

The talent just isn't up to playoff standards at the moment. It's getting better, but it's not there yet.

I 100% agree Cora didn’t get dumber.

I 100% disagree that this year’s roster is more talented than the one that was in the ALCS.

Bloom is on record that he didn’t like that ALCS team which explains a lot.

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

There’s talent on the pitching staff. The bullpen is fine- they have one of the better 8th/9th tandems in baseball. The rotation has been awful for the past month but from May-July it was good. There’s injuries and some guys have worn down (Paxton to the max) but it’s not a team that should win only 70 games and Cora has not been a miracle worker with this group no matter what some people want to believe. They came in projected to be an average team with a little upside depending on what some young guys did and they’re going to finish average, largely in part due to bad defense (Bloom’s fault) + unintelligent and uninspired baseball devoid of fundamentals (Cora’s fault)…..which if that’s not at least partially on the coach then idk what the f*** the point of coaching is

I don’t blame bad defense on Cora- well, outside of when he kept stubbornly trotting his adopted child Kikè out to SS to continue to cost us games despite having shrewd front office acquisition Pablo Reyes on the roster. There were times Pablo played 2B and Kikè played SS- LMFAO.

I do blame dumb baseball devoid of fundamentals on him. That just means the team lacks focus and isn’t connecting with the manager. And it’s been a couple years of this now, and this years roster is pretty different than last years and even had a different leadership core


I actually don’t mind the pitching staff, I think their lives have been made difficult by the defense. And no, infield practice isn’t saving them. That’s not on Cora. There have been so many errors called hits- Raffy alone has made 10 of them- and this just adds to pitch counts and causes the bullpen to be taxed earlier. That’s in addition to the runs the errors directly cause, and boy does it seem like they always do lead to runs.

I gotta give you credit. You sure are using up a whole lot of energy and words rewriting history when it's not even actually close to being true.

The majority of outlets predicted the Red Sox to finish dead last with a below .500 record, basically in the 75-80 win range. Just to name a few:

ZiPS: Last place, 79 wins

The 2023 Start of Spring ZiPS Projected Standings: American League

How does the American League stack up as we head to the opening of spring training?

blogs.fangraphs.com

Only 2 predicted them in 3rd place, 4 of them in last.

MLB predictions 2023: Expert picks for full baseball standings, playoff fields and World Series champions

Here are the predictions from our CBS Sports MLB staff for the 2023 season

www.cbssports.com

Last place, 80 wins. And this is a quote: "There are some who might look at the Red Sox and be surprised by the number of projected wins." He thought it could have been a whole lot less.

MLB predictions 2023: Final standings, playoff projections, World Series odds for every team

The Sporting News' model has projected the upcoming 2023 MLB season. Here's a look at each team's projected campaigns.

www.sportingnews.com

Every power ranking that I remember back then had the Red Sox in the mid to low teens, more in the tier of the Marlins, Angels and other middling teams.

Cora went with his "adopted child" Kiké because he had no other SS available? The situation was so bad they had to think about putting Dalbec there. And guess who was the person responsible for that? Like trading for a Mondesi who was injured at the time.

The lack of fundamentals and lack of defensive awareness / talent has got nothing to do with Cora. Baserunning is not directly manager related, that's why they have base coaches. Teaching mid twenties or thirty year olds defense is also just going to get you that far.

Cora had so little pitching at times that he was basically forced to use an opener for weeks.

I am absolutely ok with arguing and questioning Cora, anyone in the organization can or could have done a better job, Cora included. But as I stated previously it's entirely unnecessary and disingenuous to open up a new battlefield on a person who is not even close to being the biggest weak link in the organization.

Deserving of more blame are the owners, front office and even (some of) the players. There is no point in making Cora the main culprit of this average Red Sox season. It's misguided criticism.

 

[CDJ]

I gotta give you credit. You sure are using up a whole lot of energy and words rewriting history when it's not even actually close to being true.

The majority of outlets predicted the Red Sox to finish dead last with a below .500 record, basically in the 75-80 win range. Just to name a few:

ZiPS: Last place, 79 wins

The 2023 Start of Spring ZiPS Projected Standings: American League

How does the American League stack up as we head to the opening of spring training?

blogs.fangraphs.com

Only 2 predicted them in 3rd place, 4 of them in last.

MLB predictions 2023: Expert picks for full baseball standings, playoff fields and World Series champions

Here are the predictions from our CBS Sports MLB staff for the 2023 season

www.cbssports.com

Last place, 80 wins. And this is a quote: "There are some who might look at the Red Sox and be surprised by the number of projected wins." He thought it could have been a whole lot less.

MLB predictions 2023: Final standings, playoff projections, World Series odds for every team

The Sporting News' model has projected the upcoming 2023 MLB season. Here's a look at each team's projected campaigns.

www.sportingnews.com

Every power ranking that I remember back then had the Red Sox in the mid to low teens, more in the tier of the Marlins, Angels and other middling teams.

Cora went with his "adopted child" Kiké because he had no other SS available? The situation was so bad they had to think about putting Dalbec there. And guess who was the person responsible for that? Like trading for a Mondesi who was injured at the time.

The lack of fundamentals and lack of defensive awareness / talent has got nothing to do with Cora. Baserunning is not directly manager related, that's why they have base coaches. Teaching mid twenties or thirty year olds defense is also just going to get you that far.

Cora had so little pitching at times that he was basically forced to use an opener for weeks.

I am absolutely ok with arguing and questioning Cora, anyone in the organization can or could have done a better job, Cora included. But as I stated previously it's entirely unnecessary and disingenuous to open up a new battlefield on a person who is not even close to being the biggest weak link in the organization.

Deserving of more blame are the owners, front office and even (some of) the players. There is no point in making Cora the main culprit of this average Red Sox season. It's misguided criticism.

https://x.com/redsoxstats/status/1697666217358602618?s=46&t=8IeqF1lIB1Nis6scLszIqA

Middle of the road team by fWAR projections, not some last place talentless pit. More projected talent than a lot of playoff teams

There were lineups that had Reyes and Kikè in them and Reyes wasn’t playing SS. We yelled about it in the moment. It was f***ing stupid. But again the overall defense is more the fault of roster construction. Just not that particular part of the defense. That’s on Cora.

As for the bolded ITS HIS STAFF THAT HE OVERSEES. And yes if the players are playing dumb baseball devoid of fundamentals it’s on the players, and it’s also on the coaches. Alex Cora is a coach. They’re supposed to command focus and respect. They’ve quit on him and people can claim whatever they want to claim but it traces directly back to him punting on monday. That was something that could break a team, and it appears it did. There was going to be a lasting impact from that loss and we have seen it. They are dead men walking right now.


But, again, he is completely absolved of all blame because he won 5 years ago with a stacked team with the biggest payroll while cheating. It’s all on the players, the front office, and ownership. Everybody but him.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Great debate in here about stating their case of “They don’t suck as bad as you think “

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

https://x.com/redsoxstats/status/1697666217358602618?s=46&t=8IeqF1lIB1Nis6scLszIqA

Middle of the road team by fWAR projections, not some last place talentless pit. More projected talent than a lot of playoff teams

There were lineups that had Reyes and Kikè in them and Reyes wasn’t playing SS. We yelled about it in the moment. It was f***ing stupid. But again the overall defense is more the fault of roster construction. Just not that particular part of the defense. That’s on Cora.

As for the bolded ITS HIS STAFF THAT HE OVERSEES. And yes if the players are playing dumb baseball devoid of fundamentals it’s on the players, and it’s also on the coaches. Alex Cora is a coach. They’re supposed to command focus and respect. They’ve quit on him and people can claim whatever they want to claim but it traces directly back to him punting on monday. That was something that could break a team, and it appears it did. There was going to be a lasting impact from that loss and we have seen it. They are dead men walking right now.


But, again, he is completely absolved of all blame because he won 5 years ago with a stacked team with the biggest payroll while cheating. It’s all on the players, the front office, and ownership. Everybody but him.

And yet only blame Cora while praising management with “Trust the process “

I do trust the process now of bad decisions