Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VIII - Chaim Bloom FIRED
- Thread starter Fenway
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It’s what it looks like when a team quits on its manager.
McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
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Terrier
Registered User
Not watching, but I noticed the football score, very appropriate. Looking forward to Bruins preseason on NESN.
Bananaland is you calling out Cora for punting but not the GM for punting at the deadline. If more pitchers were available than is being reported and Cora left Bearclaw in to still make a point he would have been fired the next morning. Unless of course the GM is a sackless puppet (entirely possible).
Imagine convincing yourself that that one game ruined this team's playoff hopes. They were never crawling out of the hole.
Because the game's changed drastictally in the decade since Francona got fired and arguably, at least in the United States, for the worse. Nowadays they hand managers a three ring binder on how they should manage a damn baseball game rather than allowing the managers themselves get a feel for the flow of the game and make their own decisions. The games are very rarely ran by the managers in the dugouts these days. Prime evidence of this is with the decisions made by Dave Roberts when the Sox won in 2018. All the erroneous decisions he made were informed by a strategy outlined by the Dodgers' analytics department in that three ringed binder. The games are ran by the people up top in the front office. Which is why it's all the more frustrating when Bloom makes these roster decisions that flop and everyone could've told you that they would've flopped.
This isn't to say Cora's some great manager. He isn't. He was brought in to be a peer to keep locker room cohesion, because most of the manager's decisions are thought out for him and taken out of his hands. Cora's just a scapegoat for Bloom to hide behind so he can get his next puppet for any future kabuki theater distractions to deflect blame to when the team the front office assembled does bad. If Bloom wants to build trust in the front office, he should open dialogue with the players in it and stop playing backseat manager. Hell, if he wants to be manager so bad, he should get down from his perch and get in the trenches. He doesn't have to think. His analytics binder will tell him the answers he needs.
And just so I am clear, by all means fire Cora. But don't then turn around and argue Bloom should keep his job.
And yes, managers these days do what the GM/analytics say to do. Remember Kevin Cash in the WS? If Cora sabotaged the game he'd be out on his ass right now.
And yes, managers these days do what the GM/analytics say to do. Remember Kevin Cash in the WS? If Cora sabotaged the game he'd be out on his ass right now.
I would argue this is more what happens when a team quits on its front office AND manager, but hey...couldn't be Bloom right? :^)
To be honest? I don't blame them.
Also if anyone knows what Sam Kennedy actually does pass it along. Does he have any baseball power?
The WEEI operator not firing the network break quickly enough, nor fading the ballpark down.
Joe Castiglione said thinking he was off-air “at least that stiff didn’t shut us out.”
Joe Castiglione said thinking he was off-air “at least that stiff didn’t shut us out.”
Feel bad for Joe. He's experienced the highest of highs recently as the Red Sox's radio play by play man and now he has to slog through the lowest of lows again.
Harsh words from the Globe beat writer
www.bostonglobe.com
In one of the ugliest losses in franchise history, the Red Sox absorbed a 13-2 beating from the Royals before a crowd of 15,470 at Kauffman Stadium.
Salvador Perez homered twice and drove in four runs, part of a 17-hit attack as Kansas City scored its most runs this season.
The Sox were held to five hits, four of them singles.
This was not just one of those nights in a long season. It was embarrassing. The Royals have the second-worst record in baseball and came into the series having lost six straight, 10 of 11 and 19 of their last 24 games.
Red Soxâ losing streak at five after drubbing at hands of Royals, one of the ugliest losses in franchise history - The Boston Globe
James Paxton got a road trip off to a bad start for the Red Sox, allowing six runs in 1â innings. It was the worst start of Paxtonâs career, the first time he had lasted fewer than two innings while allowing so many earned runs.
www.bostonglobe.com
In one of the ugliest losses in franchise history, the Red Sox absorbed a 13-2 beating from the Royals before a crowd of 15,470 at Kauffman Stadium.
Salvador Perez homered twice and drove in four runs, part of a 17-hit attack as Kansas City scored its most runs this season.
The Sox were held to five hits, four of them singles.
This was not just one of those nights in a long season. It was embarrassing. The Royals have the second-worst record in baseball and came into the series having lost six straight, 10 of 11 and 19 of their last 24 games.
It astonishes me that the Red Sox are out of the playoff mix before Labor Day when SIX teams out of 15 advance.
Remember the anger of 12 years ago?
I sound like a broken record but I DESPISE FSG ( in fairness there are some good people there )
King John and Queen Linda care far more about Liverpool than the Red Sox because of the financial rewards available to soccer teams - MLB teams don't have that option.
.What I don't understand is the lack of teaching fundamentals in the entire system.
Remember the anger of 12 years ago?
I sound like a broken record but I DESPISE FSG ( in fairness there are some good people there )
King John and Queen Linda care far more about Liverpool than the Red Sox because of the financial rewards available to soccer teams - MLB teams don't have that option.
.What I don't understand is the lack of teaching fundamentals in the entire system.
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Don't you understand, Fenway? Teaching sound fundamental baseball gets in the way of analytics and making players more in line with the modern baseball and the data models that show how to win baseball games in the modern day and buzz words and corporate speak and buzz words and corporate speak and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. :^)
To be fair to Henry, the Sox aren't the only offender of this paralysis by analysis. Many ball clubs do this and its becoming an issue in MLB where base knowledge of fundamentals aren't getting taught. That said, some of the clubs some here want to point out as examples of winning baseball clubs with the magic formula also don't have the problem of a disinterested owner (Henry) and a cheapskate (Werner) running the damn thing. As much as people want to take a dump on Cohen for taking a bath and swallowing all those bad money contracts with the Mets, he has the ability to do that given he's a multi billion dollar wall street hedge fund boss. If and when he decides to put the right people in place, the Mets will be an unstoppable force. Baseball's trajectory, salary cap be damned, I believe will see the same kind of owners that are predominant in the Premier League. Multi billionaires, American or not, spending massive capital on talent. Todd Boehly does it with the Dodgers and they are contenders every year. The Mets could end up that way if Cohen puts the right people in charge. For the Red Sox to match, they need a cash injection and quick and I wouldn't be surprised if someone like the Saudis came knocking on the door to buy a baseball team FSG were the first in line to sell up.
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In fact, as a little tack on to my past post, I have a pretty bold prediction. I accept saying I'm wrong if this is not the case, but I think we will see foreign multinationals and sovereign wealth funds start buying up MLB teams and I think the Boston Red Sox, as well as the New York Yankees, will become one of them. Whether it is Saudi's PIF, the Al Nayan family from the UAE, Qatari Sports Group, Softbank in Japan, it doesn't matter. Within a decade, I see John Henry selling the Red Sox and NESN up to a foreign investment fund, a private equity firm, or some big conglomerate probably from Asia so he can focus on Liverpool, the Penguins, as well as looking at buying an NFL team and maybe even dip back in and buy the Pirates off Bob Nutting.
And you know what the sad thing is about all of that? I'd probably be okay with it.
And you know what the sad thing is about all of that? I'd probably be okay with it.
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DKH
Worst Poster/Awful Takes
- Feb 27, 2002
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If there is a Winter Weekend no way John Henry goes
My hot take
Henry won 4 WS in 15 years and had the passion but he married someone 1/2 his age who loves being in England in the summer
Tom Werner sucks and is a cheap prick by mature and although he was the one who wanted and got Sandoval he thought he could create a NESN kid show - and panda heads would be showing up at Fenway
Cora gone
Bloom will be the piñata and survive based on his Farm development and getting below tax
But does Bloom really know what he’s doing ? Skeptical
Boston fans I guess thought they were becoming indifferent which is the worst thing a team can have - but they are angry and the media didlikes the smarmy owners
Really, who the hell is responsible?
Henry is adding to portfolio so I don’t see him selling
@Fenway im pretty sure Will McDonagh didliked Tom Werner and Werner took out Sean
Everything that guy touches eventually turns to shit
I think he is running this team unless I hear otherwise and can’t see him ever replacing Bloom till people start going after him
With Bloom Henry and even Cora, Tom Werner is skating free
Team has quit and I would bet Yankees catch them
My hot take
Henry won 4 WS in 15 years and had the passion but he married someone 1/2 his age who loves being in England in the summer
Tom Werner sucks and is a cheap prick by mature and although he was the one who wanted and got Sandoval he thought he could create a NESN kid show - and panda heads would be showing up at Fenway
Cora gone
Bloom will be the piñata and survive based on his Farm development and getting below tax
But does Bloom really know what he’s doing ? Skeptical
Boston fans I guess thought they were becoming indifferent which is the worst thing a team can have - but they are angry and the media didlikes the smarmy owners
Really, who the hell is responsible?
Henry is adding to portfolio so I don’t see him selling
@Fenway im pretty sure Will McDonagh didliked Tom Werner and Werner took out Sean
Everything that guy touches eventually turns to shit
I think he is running this team unless I hear otherwise and can’t see him ever replacing Bloom till people start going after him
With Bloom Henry and even Cora, Tom Werner is skating free
Team has quit and I would bet Yankees catch them
Mr Cartmenez
Registered User
The only reason why I'd approve firing Cora is because he'd immediately get another big managerial job from one of the teams in New York or Houston. Otherwise I don't see a reason to let him go, just to replace him with some unknown and/or unsatisfying option.
The Astros won with Dusty Baker, the guy most fans made jokes about for decades, the guy who ruined Mark Prior and Kerry Woods careers.
There aren't many high profile managers in baseball, so why bother letting one go whose deeply respected and already has earned his merits? It's the epitome of actionism and blame shifting.
If the team had indeed quit on Cora because of one game against Houston, the team has deeper issues than anticipated and would make you wonder why a GM assembled such a character flawed team. It would be another stain on Blooms roster building approach. But I don't think that's it.
Henry flipped the Marlins to Jeffery Loria in the early 2000s after buying them off Huyzenga in the late 1990s so that he and Werner could buy the Red Sox from the Yawkey Trust. If Henry, Werner, and the sports group see a team like the Pirates as a good value compared the operating costs in Boston and a buyer with enough cash to float such a transaction, I could see that sale going down. Easily. Henry's willing to trade up if he's getting a return on investment and can then buy an equivalent, distressed asset that he can build up in value.
And you think that Werner would be a roadblock in any sale, think again. Werner sold his controlling interest of the Padres he had since 1990 in 1994 to John Moores after major cost cutting over four seasons (hmmm, sounds familiar) to get a massive return on investment to the tune of $80 million. Not a lot when you also factor in he bought it from McDonald's heiress Joan Kroc for $75 million, but hey ho it was the Padres of the early 90s. Any return was good enough for Tommy Cheapskate.
Which is why I think a sale is looming on the horizon. What we're seeing is no different to what both Henry and Werner ordered their General Managers to do when clearing the decks and priming the team for sale with both the Marlins and Padres. Letting go of major franchise faces (for the Marlins it was Piazza, Renteria, Counsell, Santana, and co; for the Padres it was Sheffield, Santiago, McGriff, etc.), both put their team's managers and GMs in a position to be fall guys for the club's decision making (Marlins manager and GM were Jim Leyland and Dave Dombrowski; Padres manger and GM were Jim Riggleman and Randy Smith), both invested heavy in developing cheap prospects that could be used to bring in stars or develop into stars themselves, and both sold their teams after cost cutting measures for a profit (Werner sold the Padres on for a $5 million dollar profit and Henry turned the $158 million he used in 1998 to buy the Marlins into $1.2 billion in 2001).
Correlation doesn't equal causation, but man if FSG was to try and make bank on the Red Sox, now would be the time given the losses of the pandemic and the desire to recover lost profit. Especially with the money being thrown around freely by the likes of the Saudis, Qataris and Emiratis on anything sports related. Now is the best time to trade up, if there ever was one.
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Ah so now we have figured out a way to blame the players giving up on their manager on Bloom. How about the manager actually commands respect? That’s 90% of the job!
Cora won with a stacked roster and some cheating 5 years ago but by all means, keep doing mental gymnastics for a guy that the players have lost respect for (and deservedly so, he quit on them first)
When the Bruins tuned out Claude they replaced him and immediately got to the cup with the same core after not being a playoff team. Must have been Sweeney’s fault! Claude was even more successful and didn’t cheat the game! Probably why he commanded respect longer tbh
Cora won with a stacked roster and some cheating 5 years ago but by all means, keep doing mental gymnastics for a guy that the players have lost respect for (and deservedly so, he quit on them first)
When the Bruins tuned out Claude they replaced him and immediately got to the cup with the same core after not being a playoff team. Must have been Sweeney’s fault! Claude was even more successful and didn’t cheat the game! Probably why he commanded respect longer tbh
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Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Two things:
Flawed construction. Seeing this here in regards to Sox and Bruins. Seems to be a catch phrase for when things go bad and we don't want to face the facts. The flaw in the Sox construction is they have no pitching. Sarted the season counting on bad arms to be healthy (Sale, Kluber, Paxton, Whitlock) and productive. They are 3rd in batting aveage and 21st in ERA. And its been that way all season.
Projected to have a higher total WAR. Projected? By AI, crystal ball, entrails of a newt? I guess projected is better than guessed. But not much. Its not like the "experts" were projecting how the 1976 Montreal Canadiens were going to do in the next season.
It’s from fangraphs. The point was that there is established talent on this team. Cora wasn’t given nothing, which is what some act like. There is literally no other point.
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