Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VI: Hunt for the Wild Card is on

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GatorMike

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I haven't moved the goal posts. The use of shortstop is to highlight how piecemeal the Red Sox are. Now have the Padres been less than stellar? Sure, especially given the price tag they've paid for certain assets. You can also argue that the Red Sox have also been less than stellar, given their resources available to them and the ability to build a better roster than what they have as well as relying on players who don't have the ability to consistently post due to injury like Adam Duvall, Christian Arroyo, Chris Sale, James Paxton, Trevor Story, Garrett Whitlock, Tanner Houck, and Corey Kluber. That to me is insulting. Especially when there were arms to be had at the deadline. The Padres, despite being 5 games back and under 500, are still in it thanks to strength of schedule and that key players like Tatis, Kim, Machado, and Bogaerts are finally starting to turn it around offensively and are finally giving run support to their strong rotation. The Red Sox? They are playing a dangerous game of chicken relying on really only Brayan Bello, Rafael Devers, Jarren Durran, and Masataka Yoshida to get you through this while waiting for Sale, Whitlock, Houck, and Story to get back.
The Padres (16-10 since July 1st) are turning things around and supporting their strong rotation.

The Red Sox (16-9 since July 1st) are playing a dangerous game of chicken.
 

Johnnyduke

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he saw people he doesn't have on ignore responding to people he does?
Um none of those people mentioned 8-8 being a losing season

Leave it to somebody who thinks 8-8 is a losing record to not understand that…
Again, what are you talking about? You might want to consider just taking people off ignore but you can't handle being challenged about the precious Red Sox.
 

EvilDead

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What about Turner? or Casas? or Paxton?

Turner - decent production but not a game changer like he was when he was with the Dodgers. he's also been forced to play out of position by Cora because Bloom signed way too many damn outfielders.

Casas - way too many long stretches of being close to the Mendoza line to be relied upon enough yet, plus he's still 23 so he deserves some latitude and not be expected to be a main offensive contributor at the moment. He has flashes but not consistent enough.

Paxton - His injury history is something that makes it very hard for me to see him as a foundational piece to rely on, just like with Sale. It's also his first healthy season in almost three seasons. If he's able to stay healthy for long enough, then yes you can say he was reliable. The issue is that key caveat of him needing to stay healthy. I don't know at 34 if he can be demanded to be a top front end pitcher with Bello while the rest of your rotation is ass cheeks and not healthy.
 
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EvilDead

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The Padres (16-10 since July 1st) are turning things around and supporting their strong rotation.

The Red Sox (16-9 since July 1st) are playing a dangerous game of chicken.

Yes, because again you keep ignoring the fact that the Red Sox have no healthy dependable arms in their starting rotation outside of Bello and Paxton at the moment. Sale, Houck, Whitlock, and Kluber are all on the IR, Pivetta's gone backwards, the bullpen sans the closer has been garbage, and they are doing stupid patchwork things to get by like doing the opener nonsense. Who else are the Red Sox going to lean on to make a deep playoff stretch? Winckowski and Crawford?

The Padres, meanwhile, have Blake Snell, Yu Darvish, and Joe Musgrove with Michael Wacha ready to come back off the IR. The only arm that's been suspect in that rotation is Seth Lugo. Their bullpen, admittedly, is a bit of a weak point. That said, their rotation of arms has been solid. I can't say the same about the Red Sox.
 
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quietbruinfan

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I can't decide whether Mr. Bloom was intentionally setting up a tautology, or a vicious cycle during his press conference. We are "underdogs." Why couldn't you make any trades? "Because we are underdogs and could not find the right match...Why are you 'underdogs'?...."because we couldn't make any trades to improve the team"

Well done, Mr. Bloom. It is your world and we are just living in it
 
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GatorMike

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Yes, because again you keep ignoring the fact that the Red Sox have no healthy dependable arms in their starting rotation outside of Bello and Paxton at the moment. Sale, Houck, Whitlock, and Kluber are all on the IR, Pivetta's gone backwards, the bullpen sans the closer has been garbage, and they are doing stupid patchwork things to get by like doing the opener nonsense. Who else are the Red Sox going to lean on to make a deep playoff stretch? Winckowski and Crawford?

The Padres, meanwhile, have Blake Snell, Yu Darvish, and Joe Musgrove with Michael Wacha ready to come back off the IR. The only arm that's been suspect in that rotation is Seth Lugo. Their bullpen, admittedly, is a bit of a weak point. That said, their rotation of arms has been solid. I can't say the same about the Red Sox.
Starting PItching WAR in 2023:
1. Miami - 4.3
2. Philadelphia - 3.9
3. Boston - 3.6

9. San Diego - 2.3

...but tell me more about how Nick Pivetta (1.93 ERA in his last 12 appearances) has regressed.
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Turner - decent production but not a game changer like he was when he was with the Dodgers. he's also been forced to play out of position by Cora because Bloom signed way too many damn outfielders.

Casas - way too many long stretches of being close to the Mendoza line to be relied upon enough yet, plus he's still 23 so he deserves some latitude and not be expected to be a main offensive contributor at the moment. He has flashes but not consistent enough.

Paxton - His injury history is something that makes it very hard for me to see him as a foundational piece to rely on, just like with Sale. It's also his first healthy season in almost three seasons. If he's able to stay healthy for long enough, then yes you can say he was reliable. The issue is that key caveat of him needing to stay healthy. I don't know at 34 if he can be demanded to be a top front end pitcher with Bello while the rest of your rotation is ass cheeks and not healthy.

Right now (which is what we are talking about) Paxton is their best starter, not Bello.

Turner is their best clutch hitter, not Devers.

Casas has been much better than Yoshida.
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Starting PItching WAR in 2023:
1. Miami - 4.3
2. Philadelphia - 3.9
3. Boston - 3.6

9. San Diego - 2.3

...but tell me more about how Nick Pivetta (1.93 ERA in his last 12 appearances) has regressed.

Not sure what that pitching WAR means.

But I do know SD has the best ERA in baseball (3.66) and the Sox are 17th (4.27).
 

EvilDead

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Starting PItching WAR in 2023:
1. Miami - 4.3
2. Philadelphia - 3.9
3. Boston - 3.6

9. San Diego - 2.3

...but tell me more about how Nick Pivetta (1.93 ERA in his last 12 appearances) has regressed.

Funny how you fail to mention that Pivetta has only gone over 6 innings twice in that twelve appearance stint. But hey...can't allow pesky thing like that get in the way of a narrative or anything. /s

Look, moving Pivetta to the bullpen has been good for him because he's clearly not a starter. The problem, however, is that the Red Sox need starting pitching. Right now they have two bonafide starters, one is a rookie and the other is injury prone, two call ups from Worcester, and an open slot they use for the gimmicky ass opener nonsense while three starting pitchers are injured.
 

EvilDead

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Right now (which is what we are talking about) Paxton is their best starter, not Bello.

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Not according to the WAR numbers Paxton isn't. Yes he's back to being a big strikeout pitcher, but Bello has been a solid pitch to contact pitcher that has given up less walks than Paxton while shouldering much more of the responsibility as the young ace of the staff. They are two completely different pitchers filling two separate roles. My problem isn't that I think Paxton isn't good. My problem is worrying that he can stay healthy long enough to continue to be good at an MLB level.
Turner is their best clutch hitter, not Devers.

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Devers has higher home run totals and a better slugging percentage and is level on OPS with Turner despite having a "down season", on top of having a higher ISO. The issue with Devers is that he is becoming more impatient at the plate, which is seen in his strikeouts going up, because he feels the need to be a bigger contributor for the team now that Bogaerts and Martinez are gone. It's not 2020 levels of bad, but it's still a sign of him needing to settle in as well as potentially having more guys who can get on base like Durran in front of him. Furthermore, Turner produces less oWAR than Devers has this season. Like I said, Turner's production is decent but a far cry from his years in LA and not nearly enough to be better than Devers in my opinion. But to each their own. I will say that not having Justin Turner in the DH would leave the Sox in a worse position, if that makes you feel better. That being said, he doesn't help the team when he's shoehorned into playing second base.
Casas has been much better than Yoshida.

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Don't say things that are clearly untrue without looking at the numbers first. Yoshida has been the hottest contact bat in the Sox lineup all year long sans Durran and has been arguably the best acquisition of the Red Sox's offseason as well, being a solid contact hitter that can hit the ball opposite field and get on base while patiently working counts. Casas, meanwhile, keeps getting worse with plate discipline and has been striking out more AND drawing less walks, as well as getting more fly ball outs. All for...four more home runs and a 20 more walks than Yoshida?

Damn...that's amazing. /s

And this is while knowing Yoshida doesn't regularly play in the outfield and Casas is an every day first baseman. Yoshida just needs to get less ground balls and more line drives for extra base hits and he would even have a larger OPS gap. Again...this isn't me hating on Casas, either. He's a good young player at 23 who's still very rough around the edges which is why I'm not expecting him to be a massive offensive contributor yet. His contributions as is are good, but if he was just more patient at the plate he could be a monster hitter.
 

McGarnagle

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f*** yeah Roberto Petagine - Japanese League Superstar. Overall Buster Posey jacked up my rarity score but I'm just hyped over the rarest answer I've provided yet.
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yazmybaby

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Turner - decent production but not a game changer like he was when he was with the Dodgers. he's also been forced to play out of position by Cora because Bloom signed way too many damn outfielders.

Casas - way too many long stretches of being close to the Mendoza line to be relied upon enough yet, plus he's still 23 so he deserves some latitude and not be expected to be a main offensive contributor at the moment. He has flashes but not consistent enough.

Paxton - His injury history is something that makes it very hard for me to see him as a foundational piece to rely on, just like with Sale. It's also his first healthy season in almost three seasons. If he's able to stay healthy for long enough, then yes you can say he was reliable. The issue is that key caveat of him needing to stay healthy. I don't know at 34 if he can be demanded to be a top front end pitcher with Bello while the rest of your rotation is ass cheeks and not healthy.
Turner has been arguably our best player day in and day out. His presence in the clubhouse and versatility in the field will be sorely missed if we do not resign him.
Casas has had an above average season, so far. He is an above average player defensively and has hit 21 HR now in 378 AB's, not bad for a kid who is 23 and add this to a .837 OPS. He will only get better as he gains more experience.
Paxton is pitching like he did from 2017-2019. You are correct about his ability to stay on the field. I was surprised that he has only pitched 814 innings in 10 years, so his arm maybe fresh for a few more years, IF he can stay healthy. I would most definately look at resigning him. We have no pitchers in AAA ready to pitch for us this year or perhaps the start of next season. The closest pitcher we have is Wilkeman Gonzalez, who is in AA now.
 

GatorMike

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Not sure what that pitching WAR means.

But I do know SD has the best ERA in baseball (3.66) and the Sox are 17th (4.27).
WAR = Wins Above Replacement

ERA is useful, but it often lacks context. The Padres are a pretty good defensive team that plays in a pitcher-friendly home stadium. If you took the same staff and put them in front of a team that didn't cover a lot of ground defensively and played their home games at Coors Field, they'd have a much higher ERA.

Funny how you fail to mention that Pivetta has only gone over 6 innings twice in that twelve appearance stint. But hey...can't allow pesky thing like that get in the way of a narrative or anything. /s

Look, moving Pivetta to the bullpen has been good for him because he's clearly not a starter. The problem, however, is that the Red Sox need starting pitching. Right now they have two bonafide starters, one is a rookie and the other is injury prone, two call ups from Worcester, and an open slot they use for the gimmicky ass opener nonsense while three starting pitchers are injured.
If the Red Sox get ~140 quality innings out of Nick Pivetta this season, why should I care if it's as a starter or if he comes out of the bullpen in the 3rd inning?
 
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CDJ

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It snuck in under the radar but another draftee from last year- Alex Hoppe- already made it up to AA (joining Meidroth)

One of the hardest throwers in the system (98-99) that gets good ride on his fastball, been throwing strikes lately, gets grounders. Could see him up at the end of next year with continued progression as he was on the older side for a 2022 draftee
 
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EvilDead

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If the Red Sox get ~140 quality innings out of Nick Pivetta this season, why should I care if it's as a starter or if he comes out of the bullpen in the 3rd inning?

Can he even register 140 innings at this point should the real starters come back?
 
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