Those cherries aren't going to pick themselves.
Marvin Lewis had a 12-4 season and 6 seasons with double digit wins. Hall of fame baby.
Patriots/NFL 2023 Regular Season Part 3: Playing Out the String or How I Learned to Stop Caring and Embrace the Tank
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Marvin Lewis had a 12-4 season and 6 seasons with double digit wins. Hall of fame baby.
It could be one of those things where you are so pissed off by your current employer passing you up that you'll go anywhere else even in a lateral move as OC. Plus, who says Mayo wants BOB as his OC? Maybe Mayo would bring back McDaniels as OC or has someone from outside the family in mind. BOB is more qualified as a HC than Mayo so I can understand if that's how this plays out.
I don't agree with that. He won at Penn State and the Texans. It's unrealistic to limit the pool of candidates to guys who have won a national championship or Super Bowl. And if you tried to do that, how often are guys like that even available? The closest could be Jim Harbaugh if he wins Monday night. He'll have a national championship and also coached the 49ers in a super bowl.
Oates2Neely
Registered User
I don’t trust the Krafts to make the right calls going forward. They let Bill run Brady out of town.. they trusted Bill would return this team to being a winner. He’s done the exact opposite. Now we hear how Bill is a control freak and has a limit on the amount of staff he hires. The difference in the amount of staff between New England & San Francisco (top 3 team in NFL) is astounding. Guess who benefits financially..? Krafts. They’ve known exactly what Bill was up to behind the scenes. Bill has been making them boatloads of money.. But now Brady is no longer around to shoulder the disfunction on his own.
Ideally the Krafts hire a President of operations. Someone who can ripoff the bandaid, get rid of “friends of Bill”, and bring in a staff who can function in todays NFL.
Ideally the Krafts hire a President of operations. Someone who can ripoff the bandaid, get rid of “friends of Bill”, and bring in a staff who can function in todays NFL.
smithformeragent
Moderator
Will the Krafts pony up the cash to do what you are proposing?
It’s a major investment in terms of off-field personnel.
Bert Breer was on the radio yesterday and was detailing the level of investment that some organizations like the Ravens and Eagles make in developing their own systems of analytics and all the manpower that goes into it.
Then there are organizations like the Bengals where scouts and personnel people wear multiple hats because they’re operating on a skeleton budget.
It would be much cheaper for the Krafts to move on from Bill, give Mayo a bump in pay, and bring back many of the same supporting cast.
I’m with you that the bandaid needs to be ripped off. Bring a football czar in from outside the organization and rebuild the thing from the ground up.
Yeah, the Krafts have made boatloads of money, but Bob Kraft isn’t Jeremy Jacobs. I think he actually cares about winning and doesn’t want to be embarrassed anymore. This franchise is a reflection of him, and he cares about that because despite his billions, unlike Jacobs and John Henry, he’s a New Englander like us.
His legacy matters. This isn’t just an investment to him. He moved the main offices of his other businesses to Foxborough so he could be where the team is, and I really think he wants to win in the worst way. He might want something “cost effective,” but he has to understand that you have to spend a little money to make more money. I’d like to think he’s learned that by this stage of his life.
I hope so.
That’s what I think they should do, and what I hope they do.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
I mean, he doesn't have any rings, but BOB won a lot of games with some pretty bad QBs in Houston. And when he had a good QB they were very good.
LSCII
Cup driven
Kraft opened up the coffers a few seasons ago and let Bill spend a lot of money in free agency because his drafting has sucked. The problem is that Bill picked really shitty guys to give that money to, so it didn't move the needle. Let's also not forget that Bill is the highest paid coach in the league pulling in $20 mill a year. This is the same guy that wouldn't give Brady an extra year guaranteed for less than that, mind you.
LSCII
Cup driven
I hope this is true. I won't be comfortable believing that until it actually happens though.
And for the record, since so many people are still arguing this. Go to pro football reference and look for yourself. Pick literally any top rated head coach and look at their careers. Top guys do not have 8 seasons with a losing record like Bill does. Shula had like 2. Gibbs had like 3. Reid has 2. Tomlin has zero. Schottenheimer has 2. Cowher had 3.
You don't get to say you're the GOAT of coaches when you have so many losing seasons and only have winning seasons with one dude. That shows me all you are is a coattail ridding clown.
When I have time I’ll sort through their records with vs. without their great quarterbacks, but to a man, EVERY great coach had a hall of fame quarterback. Some more than one.
Chuck Noll - Terry Bradshaw
Bill Walsh - Joe Montana
Paul Brown - Otto Graham
Tom Landry - Roger Staubach
Vince Lombardi - Bart Starr
George “Papa Bear” Halas - Sid Luckman
And…
Don Shula - John Unitas, Bob Griese, Dan Marino.
I’m willing to bet that these coaches’ records aren’t nearly as great without their star QBs.
I’ll even throw in Andy Reid. He had Donovan McNabb AND now Patrick Mahomes.
Sometimes the QB makes the coach.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
which is why Mr 2-9 Mac Jones is the worst QB in the league and in Pats history so I give Bill a mulligan to see what a new QB can do. All the coaches you listed above arent't winning anything with bad QB play
Troublesome 85
TOP RANKED GIRL DAD
LSCII
Cup driven
Sure, absolutely. Great players can make coaches look good. Not even arguing that.
But, and I'm sure you knew there was a but coming, great coaches win with and without great players. Joe Gibbs won 3 super bowls with 3 different starting quarterbacks. None of whom were all that great. Reid did have McNabb as well as Mahomes, but has winning seasons without Mahomes and McNabb. I mean shit, he had 5 season in KC alone without Mahomes and he won 53 games and did not have a losing season. Cowher and Tomlin have both had a ton of different quarterbacks, yet they were still able to grind out far more winning seasons without having 8 losing ones like Bill does on his resume.
What I’m saying here is that if you’re a good coach, that translates across multiple seasons and multiple players. It’s not like you only won with one guy and lose without him. Unless you’re Belichick.
LSCII
Cup driven
Sort of but not really. He was on the teams with Walsh but sat behind Montana. Then Walsh kicked himself upstairs to run things while George Sieffert coached a couple of seasons with Joe before they transitioned over to Young.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
It's funny how all the best coaches in sports history always coached the best players. What a coincidence. Almost makes you think great players need great coaches to maximize their potential and great coaches need great players to find lasting success.*
This is why I never entertain the Brady or Belichick debate. It's dumb. It was both. If you think one deserves a little more credit than the other so be it (I certainly think that's true for specific seasons). But ultimately the sum of the two together were greater than the parts. Hence 6 Super Bowls during an unmated run of winning.
*Am I crazy or is Joe Gibbs the most underrated coach ever? Three Super Bowls with three different QBs, all coming out of a highly competitive division and a vastly superior conference.
This is why I never entertain the Brady or Belichick debate. It's dumb. It was both. If you think one deserves a little more credit than the other so be it (I certainly think that's true for specific seasons). But ultimately the sum of the two together were greater than the parts. Hence 6 Super Bowls during an unmated run of winning.
*Am I crazy or is Joe Gibbs the most underrated coach ever? Three Super Bowls with three different QBs, all coming out of a highly competitive division and a vastly superior conference.
BradMarchandismydad
Registered User
The statement was that he never had a winning season without Brady. That is false. Is pointing out an entire season cherry picking now? Lmao
He has the most rings, most post season wins, 2nd most wins in history, etc. Let me know if that’s bad btw
It’s just so funny—the narrative was always Brady was carried by Bill, systems QB blah blah, but now it’s completely reversed after a couple bad seasons.
This fan base is incredibly spoiled.
Oates2Neely
Registered User
Just blows my mind that it’s taken Kraft 4 years to realize that something wasn’t working here.
bruinsfan1968
I'm rich I can do whatever I want! Lol MARW
To say Tom Brady made Bill a great coach is a joke!.
Tom Brady was made a great QB by having a Great Coach.
When a QB like Brady is drafted by team, he has to come in a learn the offense, who created that offense the Head Coach!.
Sure Brady's a smart guy, but he still needed to be Coached into to become a better QB, he didn't just do it on his own, he needed Bill.
They needed each other, that's how it works in the beginning, the middle and the end.
If anyone thinks all the great QB's did it on their own, you are wrong!
Tom Brady was made a great QB by having a Great Coach.
When a QB like Brady is drafted by team, he has to come in a learn the offense, who created that offense the Head Coach!.
Sure Brady's a smart guy, but he still needed to be Coached into to become a better QB, he didn't just do it on his own, he needed Bill.
They needed each other, that's how it works in the beginning, the middle and the end.
If anyone thinks all the great QB's did it on their own, you are wrong!
All-universe quarterback or not, we are talking about a coach who has won six Super Bowls. Bob Kraft has given Bill Belichick every chance to succeed on his own - as he should have. This is one instance where you had to be certain. We all see the pattern here and there can be no question, no doubt, no what ifs after four years.
Oh we're gonna do this again? The 2003 SB win was won by the offense scoring over 30 against Carolina. Offense put up over 40 in 2004 AFC title game. So it is inaccurate to just put the offense to the side in the early Brady years. Defense was good for sure but it wasn't like the Rams 13-3 SB win. And even in that SB run Brady threw for 343 and 348 in the playoff games before the SB.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
Bill had some his best moments vs Manning and Pitt. Bill invented the Manning face
almost 68% want Bill to stay. Thats alot of fans for Kraft to alienate running Bill out of town
almost 68% want Bill to stay. Thats alot of fans for Kraft to alienate running Bill out of town
smithformeragent
Moderator
I’ve been in favor of not just firing Bill, but taking the thing down to the studs and completely cleaning house and starting over.
They are at a turning point as an organization. Do you want Bill having his fingerprints over what they do in this upcoming draft and in free agency?
You can’t really bring him back on the final year of a deal and have him here as a lame duck. If he’s back, you sort of have to extend him too, no?
They are at a turning point as an organization. Do you want Bill having his fingerprints over what they do in this upcoming draft and in free agency?
You can’t really bring him back on the final year of a deal and have him here as a lame duck. If he’s back, you sort of have to extend him too, no?
McGarnagle
Yes.
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I'd bring him back with the best case scenario being drafting MHJ at 2, Penix at 34, and spending significant money to improve the offensive line this offseason. Possibly get a veteran qb to compete with and mentor Penix (Russ on a dirt cheap show-me deal after the Broncos cut him is what I'd look at). Defense is good with Judon and Gonzo coming back healthy.
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