I don't think so. He's in his 70s. It's not like the Raiders firing Mike Shanahan years ago and then watching him win multiple SBs with Denver.
Patriots/NFL 2023 Regular Season Part 3: Playing Out the String or How I Learned to Stop Caring and Embrace the Tank
- Thread starter smithformeragent
- Start date
- Status
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I will be. The guy drafted the greatest QB and TE in football history. That alone will make me nostalgic. And while he had some absolutely dreadful years of draftin, he also had some amazing runs picking players. The second championship trilogy featured a lot of guys he selected. And when all is said and done a lot of guys he chose will end up in Canton.
Hell, I'm nostalgic for the GM Belichick was right now.
McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
- 30,352
- 41,637
Stuff like getting Rodney Harrison and cutting Lawyer Milloy took absolute balls of steel that most GMs wouldn't have.
Building the 2007 team as well was genius and isn't recognized enough. Poison pilling the Dolphins for Wes Welker, trading for Randy Moss when nobody wanted him, etc. There were some clunkers (Adalius Thomas, Albert Haynesworth, Chad Jackson), but that's going to happen when you're assembling 53 man roster over 20 years.
Dude could build a team. And I think people underestimate how much the last 5 years or so have been affected by changes to practice rules in the last CBA. No more two-a-days, off-season minicamps being limited, etc. The hallmark of the dynasty Pats was their preparedness, never taking penalties or turning it over, I think a lot of that was coached up in those practices that they just can't do anymore, so the playing field has leveled so to speak. I don't think he's senile, just that the circumstances Bill the coach is working with are vastly different than even from 2016. But despite it all, the defense is still really good and they're able to churn out all pro corner backs from undrafted junk practically every year.
I guess the TLDR of it all is that he was a good GM and great coach, though I think the evolution of the game insofar as restrictions on practices have crippled the competitive advantage that he had on the rest of the league so now glorified cheerleaders like Dan Campbell and Madden needs like Mike McDaniel are finding success with half the tools Bill had in his prime.
It's all Mac Jones' fault!!!
Meanwhile, it's a dysfunctional mess. BOB can't hire his own coaches, Matty P essentially being Belichick's old gf that he just can't quit.
and you wonder why Mac had a regression after his great rookie year.
Whatever you do this offseason, you cannot have Belichick back. You need to clean house. If you draft another qb, and you keep this dysfunction? It's going to be the SAME. SHIT. And you'll ruin another QB. No weapons. No nothing. Invest in your coaches. Invest in your QB.
I thank Bill for the good times. But times up now.
BruinsFan37
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2015
- 1,672
- 1,891
It's less watching Bill win a Superbowl elsewhere, and more "The wheels fall completely off, and the season is in the ditch, upside down and on fire". i.e. right now the defense is still decent. Bill leaves and the new HC makes changes to the defense that makes the defense significantly worse, while doing nothing for the offense (the offense can't get much worse, hopefully, maybe...)
If/when Bill leaves and the next HC goes 1-16 or maybe even 0-17 that would hardly be called an improvement. At best that's be an "necessary evil" and you get a high draft pick as a reward. At worst you start a long chain of incompetent/sub-par head coaches and spend the next couple decades lost in the woods (think Buffalo post Jim Kelly era)
When I posted this in an NFL chat, some people who root for the Texans think that it is Bill O'Brien doing what he did in Houston to get control as head coach. To say that I was dumbfounded by that skepticism on their part would be an understatement. Even if this was a leak by O'Brien, he's in the right on this one. This team has made it damn near impossible for anyone not named Josh McDaniels to set up a functioning offense, and it has in turn hurt both Mac Jones AND Bailey Zappe.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
O'brien is full of drama just like Mac. Get the Alabama culture out of the locker room. Bring back Mcdaniels as OC for the new QB
It can't be understated how the elimination of half the practice schedule during the offseason and preseason has not only hurt Belichick's ways of doing things, but the product put on by the league in general. The lack of discipline we see from the Patriots right now stems from the changes made in that new CBA and is going to make the rebuild of the Patriots that much more arduous for any coach coming here.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
- 30,352
- 41,637
If Bill had twice the preseason practice that the CBA allows now, this offensive line would be in shape and you'd be getting better route running from the WRs.
I think the most glaring change has been in special teams, which was one of the NFL's elite units for about 10 years and is now a bit discombobulated. And it's fair because you can't just learn lane coverage and such on film days. You need reps.
I really hope that gets changed in the next CBA, even though I know it won't because the owners like the current arrangement and want to make a 19 week regular season at the expense of the on field product.
Factually wrong. Why do you lie?
Also, why don't you ever answer a simple question. Why do you hate all Bama players?
The funniest thing that happened in Houston is Jack Easterby somehow winning a power struggle with BOB, bringing in his buddy Caserio and then getting his own ass fired.
1-16 or 0-17 is extremely unlikely though. If they hire the right people it doesn't have to be a long rebuild. Hire Jim Harbaugh and you're not going 1-16 or 0-17.
The rules are the same for everyone though. If Bill can't adjust to that then it's more evidence it's time for him to go.
JRull86
Registered User
You never responded to the same Mac trope earlier in this thread.
The league figured Mac out after the buffalo win where he threw like 3 passes, and it's been downhill ever since.
Finished 1-4 with 6 TDs and 8 TOs, only win was against an awful Jacksonville team. Utterly dismantled by Buffalo twice.
The common theme? Making him throw the ball more than 25 times. Each loss were 30+ attempts.
He's not a guy that is ever going to carry a team. Hes a guy who is limited and should've been able to manage games and won with smart decision making. He hasn't displayed that at all.
Yes 3 OCs in 3 years isn't good for any developing player, but he sucked the second half of his rookie year and he's sucked even more since then.
exactly. The Krafts are in complete control of their own destiny. The NFL is set up for quick turnarounds *IF* you're smart enough to make good decisions.
I responded and answered plenty on Mac. Bill ruined his development and the other players by being a dumbass. 3 OC'S in 3 years, 1 being a guy who has no business pretending to be an OC. An offensive line of Swiss cheese for 2 of the 3 seasons. No WR's could get any separation. Last in the league. Guys not knowing how to run routes (Thornton being the biggest), no talent. WR's dropping balls that should be caught. This entire roster was constructed by Bill and it failed. They need to tear down and truly rebuild. I already accepted that Mac is gone after the season. I can't wait for him to find success somewhere else, because he will find success.
I just hope as a Patriot fan first, that IF they go down the route of drafting a rookie QB again they actually INVEST in the QB. Surround the player both o-line and WR. And give him the support. Because Mac was never Bills guy. Once he asked for advice for last season from Saban, that was it. Bills shitlist. Just like Bourne rode the bench last season for speaking out on Patricia.
I find this continuing Mac-Zappe debate fascinating......in a witnessing a car-wreck sort of way.
Is it too difficult to ponder the very real possibility that the Pats simply have TWO shitty QBs....and move on from there? Yeah the offense sucks. But QB play has a HUGE part to do with that.
The excuse making for both of these guys is starting to become absurd.
Is it too difficult to ponder the very real possibility that the Pats simply have TWO shitty QBs....and move on from there? Yeah the offense sucks. But QB play has a HUGE part to do with that.
The excuse making for both of these guys is starting to become absurd.
LSCII
Cup driven
Bill didn't have anything to do with drafting Brady. It was all former QB coach Dick Rehbein and Bobby Greer that made that pick. Bill had just taken over and Greer was staying through that draft. All Bill did was sign off on the choice, but the scouting and reason he was on anyone's radar in Foxborough was all Rehbein.
As for Gronk, he was a first round talent that slid because of his injury history. Bill loved him those bargains that offered high risk high reward.
I'm not nostalgic for Bill as a coach or a GM because I think most of his miscues in each role were covered up by him lucking his way into having the greatest quarterback of all time to make him look good. Had they drafted Pennington, Carmazzi, Tee Martin, Redman, or any of the other QBs taken ahead of Brady, Belichick would have a losing record and no titles because that's who he's been his entire career when he didn't have Brady.
TL;DR: Bill is overrated AF.
It's clearly difficult for some folks to admit it for whatever reasons.
Last edited:
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Bill didn't have anything to do with drafting Brady. It was all former QB coach Dick Rehbein and Bobby Greer that made that pick. Bill had just taken over and Greer was staying through that draft. All Bill did was sign off on the choice, but the scouting and reason he was on anyone's radar in Foxborough was all Rehbein.
As for Gronk, he was a first round talent that slid because of his injury history. Bill loved him those bargains that offered high risk high reward.
I'm not nostalgic for Bill as a coach or a GM because I think most of his miscues in each role were covered up by him lucking his way into having the greatest quarterback of all time to make him look good. Had they drafted Pennington, Carmazzi, Tee Martin, Redman, or any of the other QBs taken ahead of Brady, Belichick would have a losing record and no titles because that's who he's been his entire career when he didn't have Brady.
TLR: Bill is overrated AF.
Considering I know you rightfully credit General Manager Peter Chiarelli with drafting Pastrnak and not Don Sweeney I am NOT taking the bait today, sir, please and thank you.
Last edited:
LSCII
Cup driven
I also give full credit for Savard and Chara's signings to Gorton. Which many here can attest to.
Why am I tagged in thisssss lol
I don't think it's a car wreck. I just think Bill's stubbornness ruined 1 QB who showed poise and promise his rookie year, only for him to be a shell of his former self 2 years later. It's a poorly constructed roster by Bill. That on him. So of we bring in another rookie QB, I don't want Bill and his family tree around. Got to clean house.
LSCII
Cup driven
Patriots Rumors: Bill Belichick Wanted To Keep Matt Patricia As OC
A new report indicates New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick wanted to keep Matt Patricia instead of hiring Bill O'Brien.
nesn.com
This is not who you want making decisions for your organization going forward. Fire this clown.
He actually might be a better offensive coach than defensive, if his performance in Philly is anything to go by.....LOL.Patriots Rumors: Bill Belichick Wanted To Keep Matt Patricia As OC
A new report indicates New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick wanted to keep Matt Patricia instead of hiring Bill O'Brien.
This is not who you want making decisions for your organization going forward. Fire this clown.
Guaranteed those 2 end up back together somewhere. Only question is whether its in New England or not.....
- Status
