Patriots/NFL 2023 Regular Season Part 3: Playing Out the String or How I Learned to Stop Caring and Embrace the Tank

[Oates2Neely]

I'd bring him back with the best case scenario being drafting MHJ at 2, Penix at 34, and spending significant money to improve the offensive line this offseason. Possibly get a veteran qb to compete with and mentor Penix (Russ on a dirt cheap show-me deal after the Broncos cut him is what I'd look at). Defense is good with Judon and Gonzo coming back healthy.

Better off with a Joe Flacco on a one year deal. Wilson doesn’t strike me as a solid locker room guy. Going back to the 2nd half of his Seattle career he’s been more concerned with the Wilson “brand” than his performance on the field.

 

[Seidenbergy]

I'd bring him back with the best case scenario being drafting MHJ at 2, Penix at 34, and spending significant money to improve the offensive line this offseason. Possibly get a veteran qb to compete with and mentor Penix (Russ on a dirt cheap show-me deal after the Broncos cut him is what I'd look at). Defense is good with Judon and Gonzo coming back healthy.

Short of Penix throwing for 0 tds and 5 ints mon night, there's a less than 0% chance he sees the 2nd round.

 

[The National]

Bill had some his best moments vs Manning and Pitt. Bill invented the Manning face


almost 68% want Bill to stay. Thats alot of fans for Kraft to alienate running Bill out of town

Those people need to stop romanticizing what he did with Brady for 20 years. He hasn’t won a playoff game in 5 years, and 3/5 of those he missed the playoffs, it’s time to move on.

 

[LSCII]

Those people need to stop romanticizing what he did with Brady for 20 years. He hasn’t won a playoff game in 5 years, and 3/5 of those he missed the playoffs, it’s time to move on.

Not to mention that he essentially forced the greatest quarterback of all time out by refusing to give him a second year well below market value. He literally ushered this era of shit in because his ego got too big. Same ego that enabled him to think that hiring his two clown friends who'd never been involved in offense could take over and install a new scheme. And to make it even more clear, still wanted to keep that structure in place before the owner told him no.

 

[smithformeragent]

I picked up Jeff Benedict’s “The Dynasty” today.

About 4 chapters in and I’ve learned a lot about stuff that happened before my time including Victor Kiam and how Kraft ended up acquiring the team.

 

[rfournier103]

I picked up Jeff Benedict’s “The Dynasty” today.

About 4 chapters in and I’ve learned a lot about stuff that happened before my time including Victor Kiam and how Kraft ended up acquiring the team.

I saw it as it happened.

Couldn’t make that shit up if you wanted to.

Do you have a sense of how close the Patriots were to moving to St. Louis?

 

[smithformeragent]

I saw it as it happened.

Couldn’t make that shit up if you wanted to.

Do you have a sense of how close the Patriots were to moving to St. Louis?

Only from what I read over the years, and the chapter of this book that gets into it.

I remember Zolak saying the players had seen the uniforms-purple and gold.

The stuff with Parcells is really interesting. The 94 team is one of the first sports memories I have as a kid.

 

[CDJ]

Not to mention that he essentially forced the greatest quarterback of all time out by refusing to give him a second year well below market value. He literally ushered this era of shit in because his ego got too big. Same ego that enabled him to think that hiring his two clown friends who'd never been involved in offense could take over and install a new scheme. And to make it even more clear, still wanted to keep that structure in place before the owner told him no.

Yeah that’s where he lost me. I’m not gonna deny him his super bowls and wins, but every coach has an expiration date and he’s clearly hit it since there’s no chance in hell he surrenders decision-making ability on the roster. Wanting to bring back Matt Patricia as OC is the sign of a delusional man set in his ways and unfortunately you can’t let that guy make decisions anymore

 

[BernieMcAvoy]

It's funny how all the best coaches in sports history always coached the best players. What a coincidence. Almost makes you think great players need great coaches to maximize their potential and great coaches need great players to find lasting success.*

This is why I never entertain the Brady or Belichick debate. It's dumb. It was both. If you think one deserves a little more credit than the other so be it (I certainly think that's true for specific seasons). But ultimately the sum of the two together were greater than the parts. Hence 6 Super Bowls during an unmated run of winning.

*Am I crazy or is Joe Gibbs the most underrated coach ever? Three Super Bowls with three different QBs, all coming out of a highly competitive division and a vastly superior conference.

Gregg Popovich is 174-249 as the Spurs coach since they traded Kawhi Leonard and 61-137 since they traded DeRozan. No one is calling Popovich a fraud. Players are always more important than coaches but as you said, coaches maximize their potential. Belichick did that for two decades until the last two seasons.


I said this a month or two ago but Tom Brady is the greatest qb of all time but he's not so much better than Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees that he has more super bowls than those three combined just because of his own talent. Tom Brady isn't winning 6 super bowls with the Patriots if Mike McCarthy was his head coach. Sean Payton and Drew Brees were together 14 seasons and made just 1. It can be time to move on from Belichick without needing to try and tear down what he accomplished.

 

[Oates2Neely]

edit

 

[smithformeragent]

On the eve of what is likely Bill Belichick’s final game with the Patriots, (as I mentioned) I picked up Jeff Benedict’s “The Dynasty”. Reading it brings back fun memories of following the upstart Patriots teams of the early 90s and my favorite player, Drew Bledsoe. Sports are a lot different when you’re a kid, and in my case, sports become a great escape from life at times.

I followed the 2001 Patriots Super Bowl run while living with my grandmother. It was a transitional time for our family, amid a lot of turmoil. But on Sunday afternoons, none of that mattered and I could escape for a few hours.

I watched those games including the “tuck rule” game on my Memere’s little color TV in the living room of her tiny, subsidized apartment in elderly housing. I was so ecstatic when Bledsoe replaced an injured Tom Brady in the AFC Championship that I begged my mother to drive me to the Mall of New Hampshire following the game to purchase a jersey. I had never had a real Patriots jersey before, just whatever players from other teams were on the clearance rack at discount stores.

I asked for a Drew Bledsoe jersey, but the salesperson at Olympia Sports informed me that they no longer had any Bledsoe jerseys, but had plenty of Brady jerseys. I asked him to check again and he came out with a Bledsoe jersey.

I wore that jersey to school every day the week leading to the Super Bowl 36. I stopped at the corner store every morning to pick up a copy of the Boston Herald. The big question on everyone’s mind that week was “Who would Belichick start in the Super Bowl?”. Brady started and the rest was history. I have jerseys from Bledsoe’s stops in Buffalo and Dallas in a bin in my basement.

And I still have that Patriots jersey to this day.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Waiting for Ian Rappaport's Belichick puff piece to drop...tomorrow morning?

 

[Johnnyduke]

I'd bring him back with the best case scenario being drafting MHJ at 2, Penix at 34, and spending significant money to improve the offensive line this offseason. Possibly get a veteran qb to compete with and mentor Penix (Russ on a dirt cheap show-me deal after the Broncos cut him is what I'd look at). Defense is good with Judon and Gonzo coming back healthy.

What evidence is there that Bill would take a WR with 2nd pick though? That seems highly unlikely to me. In theory the only way you bring Belichick back is if ownership hires an outside GM. But in practice that is a recipe for disaster. There's no way Bill would play nice in that scenario. I honestly cannot believe the amount of people who twist themselves into a pretzel to support Bill coming back (not you necessarily). He should have been fired after last year and yet there are still people getting all nostalgic. People, it's time. It's over.

 

[rfournier103]

On the eve of what is likely Bill Belichick’s final game with the Patriots, (as I mentioned) I picked up Jeff Benedict’s “The Dynasty”. Reading it brings back fun memories of following the upstart Patriots teams of the early 90s and my favorite player, Drew Bledsoe. Sports are a lot different when you’re a kid, and in my case, sports become a great escape from life at times.

I followed the 2001 Patriots Super Bowl run while living with my grandmother. It was a transitional time for our family, amid a lot of turmoil. But on Sunday afternoons, none of that mattered and I could escape for a few hours.

I watched those games including the “tuck rule” game on my Memere’s little color TV in the living room of her tiny, subsidized apartment in elderly housing. I was so ecstatic when Bledsoe replaced an injured Tom Brady in the AFC Championship that I begged my mother to drive me to the Mall of New Hampshire following the game to purchase a jersey. I had never had a real Patriots jersey before, just whatever players from other teams were on the clearance rack at discount stores.

I asked for a Drew Bledsoe jersey, but the salesperson at Olympia Sports informed me that they no longer had any Bledsoe jerseys, but had plenty of Brady jerseys. I asked him to check again and he came out with a Bledsoe jersey.

I wore that jersey to school every day the week leading to the Super Bowl 36. I stopped at the corner store every morning to pick up a copy of the Boston Herald. The big question on everyone’s mind that week was “Who would Belichick start in the Super Bowl?”. Brady started and the rest was history. I have jerseys from Bledsoe’s stops in Buffalo and Dallas in a bin in my basement.

And I still have that Patriots jersey to this day.

I absolutely love this. It’s early, but you made my day.

 

[LSCII]

Gregg Popovich is 174-249 as the Spurs coach since they traded Kawhi Leonard and 61-137 since they traded DeRozan. No one is calling Popovich a fraud. Players are always more important than coaches but as you said, coaches maximize their potential. Belichick did that for two decades until the last two seasons.


I said this a month or two ago but Tom Brady is the greatest qb of all time but he's not so much better than Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees that he has more super bowls than those three combined just because of his own talent. Tom Brady isn't winning 6 super bowls with the Patriots if Mike McCarthy was his head coach. Sean Payton and Drew Brees were together 14 seasons and made just 1. It can be time to move on from Belichick without needing to try and tear down what he accomplished.

That’s because Pop won chips with and without Leonard. Your example flat out sucks, tbh.

 

[CDJ]

That’s because Pop won chips with and without Leonard. Your example flat out sucks, tbh.

I mean when he did it without Leonard he literally had 3 HOF, including a guy I consider better than Kawhi in Tim Duncan. First ring or two may have been David Robinson and Duncan, 2 of probably the top 5 big men ever.

The point is coaches don’t win championships without elite talent. It’s a perfectly fine point and example

 

[GatorMike]

Russini reports that there are members of the Patriots organization who are expecting changes and have already started putting out feelers about jobs around the league.

For what it's worth, I think Bill is undisputedly a great coach who has a lot to offer a franchise given the right circumstances. I'm not sure those circumstances exist in New England any more.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the Patriots to decide that it's time to move in a new direction and allow Bill to find a new job with the understanding that the Patriots won't try to screw over his new team when it come to compensation. In other words, the Patriots wouldn't ask Washington for the 2nd overall pick if he decides he wants to coach the Commanders.

 

[LSCII]

I mean when he did it without Leonard he literally had 3 HOF, including a guy I consider better than Kawhi in Tim Duncan. First ring or two may have been David Robinson and Duncan, 2 of probably the top 5 big men ever.

The point is coaches don’t win championships without elite talent. It’s a perfectly fine point and example

It's a fine point that winning coaches have winning players, but the issue and why the comp is apples to oranges is that Pop won with multiple iterations of players. Bill has only won with 1 guy. You can dismiss it if you want, but it's a fair criticism. It only gets worse when you see he doesn't have a winning record without Brady. Again, that's simple fact.

 

[GatorMike]

More from Bert Breer:



A couple of highlights:

* Some within the team feel like Belichick's departure has been in the works since the trip to Germany.

* Jerod Mayo is "at the front of the line" to replace Belichick.

* There are loads of GM candidates on the market with ties to the Patriots.

* Patriots' front office will be dramatically reshaped this off-season, as they currently have one of the smallest staffs in the league.

* Breer believes Belichick already knows what's going to happen, including where he'll be coaching next year. "The Chargers make the most football sense. The Panthers and Dallas Cowboys might have the owners motivated to take a swing."

 

[KrejciMVP]

More from Bert Breer:



A couple of highlights:

* Some within the team feel like Belichick's departure has been in the works since the trip to Germany.

* Jerod Mayo is "at the front of the line" to replace Belichick.

* There are loads of GM candidates on the market with ties to the Patriots.

* Patriots' front office will be dramatically reshaped this off-season, as they currently have one of the smallest staffs in the league.

* Breer believes Belichick already knows what's going to happen, including where he'll be coaching next year. "The Chargers make the most football sense. The Panthers and Dallas Cowboys might have the owners motivated to take a swing."

Bill will definitely have a market, I don't believe the Post Bill clown show that Kraft has planned has any chance of winning ever again soon.

 

[BernieMcAvoy]

It's not about Kawhi specifically, it's about the Spurs two decades of being a dominant nba team being dead as soon as he demanded and got traded out of San Antonio. Greg Popovich is one of the best basketball coaches ever and has a worse record as Spurs coach pre Duncan and post Kawhi than Rick Pitino had with the Celtics. Doesn't make him a fraud, because even in the nba where coaching matters less, how many coaches are sustaining 22 straight years of making the playoffs and 5 championships? He just hasn't had that top 5/10 player in the league on his roster since Kawhi left.


It's the same with Belichick. His record pre and post Brady looks like a coach who got two chances to be a head coach before having to be a coordinator the rest of his career but when he got to coach that all time great qb the 19 years of Brady and Belichick speaks for itself. Rodgers, Manning and Brees combined played in the same amount of super bowls as Brady won with the Patriots. The difference besides Brady being the greatest of all time instead of just all time great was Brady also had the best coach. You don't have 19 years of dominance with 6 super bowl wins, 9 super bowl appearances and 13 afc championship games if both the qb and coach aren't the best to do it.

 

[PB37]

It's not about Kawhi specifically, it's about the Spurs two decades of being a dominant nba team being dead as soon as he demanded and got traded out of San Antonio. Greg Popovich is one of the best basketball coaches ever and has a worse record as Spurs coach pre Duncan and post Kawhi than Rick Pitino had with the Celtics. Doesn't make him a fraud, because even in the nba where coaching matters less, how many coaches are sustaining 22 straight years of making the playoffs and 5 championships? He just hasn't had that top 5/10 player in the league on his roster since Kawhi left.


It's the same with Belichick. His record pre and post Brady looks like a coach who got two chances to be a head coach before having to be a coordinator the rest of his career but when he got to coach that all time great qb the 19 years of Brady and Belichick speaks for itself. Rodgers, Manning and Brees combined played in the same amount of super bowls as Brady won with the Patriots. The difference besides Brady being the greatest of all time instead of just all time great was Brady also had the best coach. You don't have 19 years of dominance with 6 super bowl wins, 9 super bowl appearances and 13 afc championship games if both the qb and coach aren't the best to do it.

Agreed. I don't think Brady experiences the highs of winning in his formative seasons or comes out of his early years the way he did without BB, who taught him the value of being prepared for the next opponent to the point of knowing the other team's plays better than they knew them. Brady sat at BB's table, learned the menu, and eventually became the executive chef. All this Brady vs BB talk is eye rolling sports radio nonsense to the highest degree - they needed each other, and the franchise reaped the benefits.

 

[rfournier103]

Bill will definitely have a market, I don't believe the Post Bill clown show that Kraft has planned has any chance of winning ever again soon.

Not to sound like a richard, but how can you possibly know what Bob Kraft has planned “Post Bill” and that it will be a “clown show?” Do you know something we don’t?

Serious question.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Not to sound like a richard, but how can you possibly know what Bob Kraft has planned “Post Bill” and that it will be a “clown show?” Do you know something we don’t?

Serious question.

It's already starting with this contrived run Bill out of town with Kraft leaving Bill to stir in the wind. Will be like a red sox spin off show

 

[rfournier103]

All this Brady vs BB talk is eye rolling sports radio nonsense to the highest degree - they needed each other, and the franchise reaped the benefits.

As did we.