Boston Bruins 2023 Off-Season CAP, Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk XI

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Oh, sorry, I didn't respond to that because it was addressed by others in the thread. He started the season 2 years ago playing 2C with Hall and Smith. He had 14 points in 26ish games. He also had 1:53 in PP TOI that year. Not sure how it broke down specifically for his 2nd line play vs him on the 3rd line, but nearly 2 minutes a night of PP TOI is significant either way.

The key takeaway though is that when the change happened, Coyle had 14 points to Haula's 5. Then for the rest of the year Haula was there and while they ended with the same total points (44), Haula had more goals, won more at the dot, and all while playing two and a half less minutes per night. Simply put, despite the incessant protests of the Sweeney apologists, Erik Haula outplayed Charlie Coyle in the 2C that season. Coyle was not nearly as effective. End of story.
Yeah...but you're now comparing Coyle's play with Frederic and Smith/Foligno for the last 55ish games to Haulas play with Hall and Pastrnak...I would hope he would outscore Coyle playing with that talent. But like I said above, I think it's pretty much a wash between these two, you wouldn't want either has a 2C unless you absolutely had to.

I also wonder why you're saying Sweeney apologists here...you do realize he brought in both Haula and Coyle right?
 
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Yeah...but you're now comparing Coyle's play with Frederic and Smith/Foligno for the last 55ish games to Haulas play with Hall and Pastrnak...I would hope he would outscore Coyle playing with that talent. But like I said above, I think it's pretty much a wash between these two, you wouldn't want either has a 2C unless you absolutely had to.

I also wonder why you're saying Sweeney apologists here...you do realize he brought in both Haula and Coyle right?
But people are comparing Haula with the 3rd line guys to Coyle's time with the second line guys so it washes out, no?

The apologist part comes into play with people getting upset when others call Coyle what he is. They know full well Sweeney f***ed up and didn't address the dearth of center depth in the pipeline and are now in full denial that Coyle wasn't replaced by a stiff like Haula. That's the damning part too. Coyle was not good so they took a complete stiff and replaced him on the second line, and that stiff did better.
 
But people are comparing Haula with the 3rd line guys to Coyle's time with the second line guys so it washes out, no?

The apologist part comes into play with people getting upset when others call Coyle what he is. They know full well Sweeney f***ed up and didn't address the dearth of center depth in the pipeline and are now in full denial that Coyle wasn't replaced by a stiff like Haula. That's the damning part too. Coyle was not good so they took a complete stiff and replaced him on the second line, and that stiff did better.
When Haula played on the third line, he did doodly squat. It took him playing with the team's biggest offensive driver for him to put up any sort of numbers.

Coyle in his role on the third line FAR outplayed Haula in HIS role on the third line.

What I would concede, is that Haula's North/South style probably fit between Hall/Pasta better than Coyle's puck-possession style would have.

But this is being framed as a one-for-one (second and third line C) swap and that is entirely dishonest. Every line was shuffled in an effort to spread out the skill throughout.
 
Wrong.

Coyle had Smith or Foligno on his RW.

Haula had Pastrnak.

Arguably the team's worst offensive player (Foligno) vs unquestionably the team's best (Pasta)

That's a MASSIVE difference
Yes I was wrong about Pasta-Coyle pairing. You are somewhat wrong too. Debrusk was also there as an option on the second line.

The fact is Coyle already lost the second line center before they broke up the perfection line when Debrusk was put on the first line.

They still tried Coyle at second line center, and it did not work out. You want to blame Hall and the combo of right wingers for that sure. Then you have to blame Coyle and Hall for Debrusk struggling until he moved to the first line.

Just saying they did give Coyle second line opportunities just like Minny did. It didn’t work out.

Maybe it does this time, but I wouldn’t put any money on it.
 
Just so everyone is clear, my statements are not anti Coyle. I think he's a very capable 3rd line center, and probably one of the best ones in the league if I'm being fair. The issue isn't him. It's that he's now going to be asked to slot up and play above his capabilities because Sweeney failed to address the lack of center depth organizationally for years. Much like how he failed to address the lack of top 6 wings when they were rolling Krejci out with trash year after year. Having Coyle as your third line center means you have a good team with good depth. Having Coyle as a top 2C means you have no depth and your margin for error is now razor thin.

Everything I've said is really about the failures of Sweeney to fill even basic holes in the lineup for the vast majority of his tenure here.
This is the reality. Coyle is perfect where he’s played.
 
Yes I was wrong about Pasta-Coyle pairing. You are somewhat wrong too. Debrusk was also there as an option on the second line.

The fact is Coyle already lost the second line center before they broke up the perfection line when Debrusk was put on the first line.

They still tried Coyle at second line center, and it did not work out. You want to blame Hall and the combo of right wingers for that sure. Then you have to blame Coyle and Hall for Debrusk struggling until he moved to the first line.

Just saying they did give Coyle second line opportunities just like Minny did. It didn’t work out.

Maybe it does this time, but I wouldn’t put any money on it.
DeBrusk was an option, but he never played on that line. He was LW until they tried him at RW with Bergy and Marchand.

I'm not advocating for Coyle as the second-line saviour at C. I agree that third is the ideal place for him.

But I don't think it's a catastrophy if it happens. We've seen worse.
 
But people are comparing Haula with the 3rd line guys to Coyle's time with the second line guys so it washes out, no?
Just using their top 3 combinations for that year.

419 mins of Hall-Haula-Pasta
50 mins of Debrusk-Haula-Lazar
45 mins of Hall-Haula-Smith

Vs.

330 mins of Frederic-Coyle-Smith
105 mins of Hall-Coyle-Smith
75 mins of Hall-Coyle-Foligno

You be the judge who had the better linemates...it isnt really an apples to apples comparison
 
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When Haula played on the third line, he did doodly squat. It took him playing with the team's biggest offensive driver for him to put up any sort of numbers.

Coyle in his role on the third line FAR outplayed Haula in HIS role on the third line.

What I would concede, is that Haula's North/South style probably fit between Hall/Pasta better than Coyle's puck-possession style would have.

But this is being framed as a one-for-one (second and third line C) swap and that is entirely dishonest. Every line was shuffled in an effort to spread out the skill throughout.
I found haula smart but not overly strong on the puck. He can’t drive a line. But he can produce with good players. That much he has proven.

Coyle controls the play when he is on the ice. They are different animals. Coyle wears down the other team while contributing here and there. He drives the line.

To me coyle is far better than haula.
 
I’m just arguing because of the history of trying Coyle at a top 6 role from both Minny and Boston didn’t work out. Yeah putting anyone with Pasta or Mcdavid and the stats would go up. Is it the best fit, my guess probably not and it’s style of game. Coyle doesn’t have great playmaking ability. He does have a good shot but hardly uses it. What he is best at is his possession game. Now would that work with Marchand and Debrusk? Marchand is all around guy, Debrusk was the dig for puck/speed guy, could Debrusk and Coyle coexist doing somewhat the same thing?

Do really want to put Coyle’s lack of vision with Pasta? Zacha definitely has better playmaking ability which is probably why Haula had success with Pasta (same with Bertuzzi).

He’ll get his opportunities but im skeptical he fits in with either line
 
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When Haula played on the third line, he did doodly squat. It took him playing with the team's biggest offensive driver for him to put up any sort of numbers.

Coyle in his role on the third line FAR outplayed Haula in HIS role on the third line.

What I would concede, is that Haula's North/South style probably fit between Hall/Pasta better than Coyle's puck-possession style would have.

But this is being framed as a one-for-one (second and third line C) swap and that is entirely dishonest. Every line was shuffled in an effort to spread out the skill throughout.
I don't think it's dishonest in as much as it's a direct comp because they essentially flipped spots. You know? At the end of the day, styles do matter. Case in point JDB and Krejci were a terrible fit. JDB with Marchand and Bergeron was a dream fit. You know?
 
Just using their top 3 combinations for that year.

419 mins of Hall-Haula-Pasta
50 mins of Debrusk-Haula-Lazar
45 mins of Hall-Haula-Smith

Vs.

330 mins of Frederic-Coyle-Smith
105 mins of Hall-Coyle-Smith
75 mins of Hall-Coyle-Foligno

You be the judge who had the better linemates...it isnt really an apples to apples comparison
again he already lost his opportunity at second line center, so that is why Haula had more time with those guys. The coach felt Coyle was a better third liner than second liner so they end up keeping it that way and yes of course the minutes would pile up at that point.
 
Read the following article and get back to me.
----------


BRUINS

Charlie Coyle’s ‘monster’ performance made life miserable for the Panthers in Game 3​

"When he puts his body into guys, there's not anybody in the league that can defend him."​

Boston Bruins center Charlie Coyle (13) celebrates his goal for a 2-0 lead during the second period. The Florida Panthers host the Boston Bruins in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Playoffs on April 21, 2023 at FLA Live Arena in Sunrise, FL.
Charlie Coyle played a

SUNRISE, Fla. — An Aleksander Barkov shift is often where opposing scoring chances go to die down in South Florida.
The Florida Panthers’ captain is the complete package as a two-way anchor down the middle. Equipped with a sharp hockey IQ, active stick, and a 6-foot-3, 215-pound frame, the 2021 Selke Award winner is a matchup nightmare for most rival skaters.

Of course, Charlie Coyle isn’t built like most skaters.

The Weymouth product’s game may not be cut from the same cloth as a bruising power forward like Tom Wilson or Josh Anderson.

But Coyle — clocking in at 6-foot-3 and 223 pounds — doesn’t need to impact games by way of bone-crunching checks. Not when he’s sapping the energy and will of opponents on draining O-zone shifts.
Count Barkov as the latest in a long line of foes left sucking wind and shaking their head following a net-front battle with Boston’s homegrown pivot.
Coyle’s tip tally off a Brad Marchand wrister during Friday’s Game 3 victory over the Panthers was a testament to the 31-year-old forward’s hand-eye talents.
But it was Coyle’s tug-of-war in the crease with Barkov in the seconds leading up to that goal that drew most of the praise in Boston’s dressing room.

“He’s just a man. It’s a weird compliment, but it is,” Nick Foligno said of the issues Coyle’s frame presents to opponents. “He’s a beast. He’s so lanky and long, but also strong. When he puts his body into a puck or into another body, you’re not getting it. He really drives our team that way, when he plays like that.”

The Bruins needed a play driver down in the middle on Friday, given the absence of both Patrice Bergeron and David Krejci as the team’s potent 1-2 punch at the pivot position.

Coyle may not have the playmaking poise of a Krejci, nor the two-way mastery that Bergeron wields on every shift. But when every inch of Grade-A ice is shored up come the postseason, having a human battering ram like Coyle tends to come in handy.

“He just seemed like he was a monster,” Jim Montgomery said of Coyle following Boston’s 4-2 victory at FLA Live Arena. “He was a man possessed out there with the way he just took pucks to the net.”

Fighting inside stood as one of Montgomery’s primary mandates after his skaters failed to pepper Alex Lyon with high-danger looks in a lopsided Game 2 loss.

On Friday night, the Bruins generated 10 high-danger scoring chances at 5v5 play. Coyle accounted for six of those quality looks in and around the paint.

“That’s just playoffs,” Foligno said of bringing pucks down low. “Look at [Florida], they’re trying to get to the inside. That’s just that’s where things happen. That’s where you’re gonna have success — whether in your end or on their end.”

Coyle’s ability to wear down teams by way of his patented game of “keep-away” translates down the other end of the frozen sheet.

Whether it be trying to knock the biscuit loose off an O-zone board battle or hem him along the end boards in Boston’s own end, most fruitless shifts against Coyle often end in the same result.
Those taxing seconds spent trying to corral a horse like Coyle siphon whatever spark is stored in one’s legs. Over a seven-game series, Coyle exacts a heavy toll.

“When he puts his body into guys, there’s not anybody in the league that can defend him,” Foligno said of Coyle. “We’re privileged to have him on the team. A guy that’s a big-minute player for us and he really stepped up tonight for us.”
Why does anyone here have to read the article to form an opinion? Because you do?

Is it not possible for the writer to be wrong in his/her opinion?
 
43 minutes together with Pasta definitely isn't enough to know whether or not he can play with him.

At the same time, 16:53 minutes of game 3 has literally no bearing on his ability to be a 1 or 2 C.

2023-2024 is shaping up to be a "This Old House" rerun. A one line team and then a bunch of "projects" all likely asked to produce above their weight class.

Reminds of the MOC and early Chia years in many way (on forward, not on D and G)... Sure the guys have come cheap to fill out the bottom 6 but there isn't a single guy there that isn't a legit question if either their were a one hit wonder or the wheels are going to fall off by game 40.

Greer, Megna, Brown, Bovquist, JVR, Lucic, Geekie... Last year in similar roles that was 45 goals of NHL production... That is crap for a bottom 6 production of a team that is hoping for a wildcard spot.

The Piper is calling in his due and hopefully they can restock the farm in a year or 2 because the MOC/Chia rerun of the McEachern, Yelle, Pelletier, Schaeffer, Reich, Bochenski, Bitz, Nokelainen "thing" is going to get old fast.
B's should hire Tommy Silva.
 
DeBrusk was an option, but he never played on that line. He was LW until they tried him at RW with Bergy and Marchand.

I'm not advocating for Coyle as the second-line saviour at C. I agree that third is the ideal place for him.

But I don't think it's a catastrophy if it happens. We've seen worse.
I guess I am playing more devils advocate here. I am fine with giving Coyle the opportunity, just going by his career history I’m skeptical about it. This whole season is going to be like that though. You are either skeptical or optimistic with the 1 year deal guys. Same with Zacha and Coyle scratching 1/2 center positions, or our prospects breaking through.

I am very curious about the upcoming season is the best way I can describe. The scale could really tip either way with how successful they are.
 
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They had a 60% xGF% during those 43 minutes.

Hall-Coyle-Pasta had a 60% xG.
Hall-Haula-Pasta had a 56% xG.

Also worth nothing that Hall-Coyle-Smith (44.4% xG) was more effective than Hall-Haula-Smith (38.5% xG).

That said, the sample sizes of Hall-Coyle-Pasta and Hall-Haula-Smith, are very small. 43 minutes as you said, and I wonder how much of that is just lag from changing on the fly. Even if it's just 10 seconds a game, that would work out to about 14 minutes in a season.
 
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Hall-Coyle-Pasta had a 60% xG.
Hall-Haula-Pasta had a 56% xG.

Also worth nothing that Hall-Coyle-Smith (44.4% xG) was more effective than Hall-Haula-Smith (38.5% xG).

That said, the sample sizes of Hall-Coyle-Pasta and Hall-Haula-Smith, are very small. 43 minutes as you said, and I wonder how much of that is just lag from changing on the fly. Even if it's just 10 seconds a game, that would work out to about 14 minutes in a season.
Yeah I mean it’s 43 minutes in 38 games…
 
“Boston won games 3 & 4 with Zacha & Coyle as their top 6 centers”

“Montgomery blew the series when he changed the lines for game 5 and separated Bergeron & Marchand (for 8 minutes before reverting back to his regular lines)”

Small window examples to prove narratives sprinkled throughout this thread.

also left out Hall's big game
 
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It's been hard coming here since the playoffs . . . and now Bergy. Too many missed opportunities.

Still hoping DK comes back. I'd say we then have three 2 A/B Centers and Geekie on 4th line.

Not sure who would be that matchup Center needed in a shutdown role - guess it would depend on linemates.

Yes Bergy is HOF, but I think DK would bring more to that 1ST PP. Bergy's bumper spot was too easy to defend and I think DK has a better shot and better passer.
 
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