2023 NHL Entry Draft

Status
Not open for further replies.

NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
24,894
25,485
I think I've been far too harsh on Eduard Sale. The offensive talent is definitely there, even if he leaves a lot to be desired with his play usually. He's still that electric player that I noticed at the 4 nations last year, this year just didn't really go his way.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see Yzerman pick him up. Actually reminds me a bit of Raymond that way.
 

Jaynki

Registered User
Feb 3, 2014
5,870
6,049
Wright looked great in the OHL and his first stint in the AHL. The playoffs were a different story and that is a concern but you can't just ignore the majority of his work this season. He was never given a chance in Seattle as they have a deep lineup and were gunning for a playoff spot right out of the gate. Slaf struggled mightily and didn't remotely prove any detractors wrong although he never had the opportunity that Wright had to light up lesser leagues. If Wright was drafted by Montreal he likely would have been given the same opportunity that Slaf was given and very well might have impressed more than Slaf did.

In the end both players had old criticisms float back to the surface and serious questions about both players remain unanswered so to take a definitive side by saying one was much better than the other smells more of tribal bias than it does of an objective comparative analysis.
I think there is a fair debate between Slafkovsky and Cooley but objectively, and i am also guilty of this, we were in the wrong claiming Wright as a fanbase.

He is soft as f*** and he would have been eaten alive in our market. Wright has 1goals and 4assist in his last 11 AHL playoff game. He was too weak for the NHL and his advanced metrics are even worst than Slaf despite playing in a way better team, with better linemates. But the sample is very small.

We might disagree on many things with Slaf, its fair. But one thing seems obvious right now, but it also may change on a dime, we dodged a massive bullet with Wright, it was a massive trap.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,128
12,304
I think there is a fair debate between Slafkovsky and Cooley but objectively, and i am also guilty of this, we were in the wrong claiming Wright as a fanbase.

He is soft as f*** and he would have been eaten alive in our market. Wright has 1goals and 4assist in his last 11 AHL playoff game. He was too weak for the NHL and his advanced metrics are even worst than Slaf despite playing in a way better team, with better linemates. But the sample is very small.

We might disagree on many things with Slaf, its fair. But one thing seems obvious right now, but it also may change on a dime, we dodged a massive bullet with Wright, it was a massive trap.

I agree that Wright was not a great pick for this market but I disagree that he is weak and his "advanced metrics" mean nothing to me given how sparingly Seattle used him.

When you break down individual abilities and traits Wright easily beats Slaf but Slaf's size/strength advantage is what gives him his unicorn status and this combined with his gregarious nature compared to Wright's uncomfortably awkward nature also played a part in selecting Slaf over Wright.

In the end Slaf absolutely had a poor showing as he was entirely unable to map the ice which led to countless forced passes and turnovers as well as getting his bell rung multiple times. He is also far too slow with the puck on his stick but moves much better when forechecking without the puck.

I honestly don't know who will have the better career but I am in agreement that Slaf was a better choice for this market. If I was involved in the interview process I would have passed on Wright as well and likely would have taken Nemec/Cooley and maybe Jiricek ahead of Slaf but I am still excited about what he could possibly become and am looking forward to potentially witnessing that happen.

Wright is still a very good prospect and Seattle may end up being a perfect market for him, I do get annoyed at people leaning into their bias and their overzealous, hyperbolic negative takes on Wright. If they are right we will never hear the end of it and if they are wrong you won't hear many of them apologize for allowing their emotions to overrun their objectiveness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReHabs

Jaynki

Registered User
Feb 3, 2014
5,870
6,049
I agree that Wright was not a great pick for this market but I disagree that he is weak and his "advanced metrics" mean nothing to me given how sparingly Seattle used him.

When you break down individual abilities and traits Wright easily beats Slaf but Slaf's size/strength advantage is what gives him his unicorn status and this combined with his gregarious nature compared to Wright's uncomfortably awkward nature also played a part in selecting Slaf over Wright.

In the end Slaf absolutely had a poor showing as he was entirely unable to map the ice which led to countless forced passes and turnovers as well as getting his bell rung multiple times. He is also far too slow with the puck on his stick but moves much better when forechecking without the puck.

I honestly don't know who will have the better career but I am in agreement that Slaf was a better choice for this market. If I was involved in the interview process I would have passed on Wright as well and likely would have taken Nemec/Cooley and maybe Jiricek ahead of Slaf but I am still excited about what he could possibly become and am looking forward to potentially witnessing that happen.

Wright is still a very good prospect and Seattle may end up being a perfect market for him, I do get annoyed at people leaning into their bias and their overzealous, hyperbolic negative takes on Wright. If they are right we will never hear the end of it and if they are wrong you won't hear many of them apologize for allowing their emotions to overrun their objectiveness.
I agree with you on pretty much everything in your post. Just a note on the personality aspect of things, Cooley did not have Slafkovsky nor Wright charisma and prestance. I think he was the worst of the pack. It may also have played a factor in the selection as Hughes stated they wanted someone who will fit in the montreal market. Cooley was obviously not this one. Anthony Martineau who went to interviews all the prospects at the combine also noted the same thing.

Now one thing is sure, Bedard is made for our market so i cant wait to tomorrow!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Estimated_Prophet

McGuires Corndog

Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Sponsor
Feb 6, 2008
26,547
14,762
Montreal
I think there is a fair debate between Slafkovsky and Cooley but objectively, and i am also guilty of this, we were in the wrong claiming Wright as a fanbase.

He is soft as f*** and he would have been eaten alive in our market. Wright has 1goals and 4assist in his last 11 AHL playoff game. He was too weak for the NHL and his advanced metrics are even worst than Slaf despite playing in a way better team, with better linemates. But the sample is very small.

We might disagree on many things with Slaf, its fair. But one thing seems obvious right now, but it also may change on a dime, we dodged a massive bullet with Wright, it was a massive trap.

There’s a lot that fans simply don’t have access to in terms of evaluating prospects, the fact that scouts/management gets to sit down and interview them and also would likely have access to inside info from their junior coaches / team mates regarding players work ethic and general demeanour.

There was a lot of talk about Wright having red flags, but sometimes we don’t have the ability to know if it’s legitimate or just noise.

In hindsight most of us were likely wrong to want to pick Wright, the debate should’ve likely been Slaf/Cooley.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaynki

Rusty7550

Registered User
Aug 11, 2018
575
994
I think I've been far too harsh on Eduard Sale. The offensive talent is definitely there, even if he leaves a lot to be desired with his play usually. He's still that electric player that I noticed at the 4 nations last year, this year just didn't really go his way.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see Yzerman pick him up. Actually reminds me a bit of Raymond that way.
I think Detroit wants Dvorsky. (If he's still there for them)
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,128
12,304
I agree with you on pretty much everything in your post. Just a note on the personality aspect of things, Cooley did not have Slafkovsky nor Wright charisma and prestance. I think he was the worst of the pack. It may also have played a factor in the selection as Hughes stated they wanted someone who will fit in the montreal market. Cooley was obviously not this one. Anthony Martineau who went to interviews all the prospects at the combine also noted the same thing.

Now one thing is sure, Bedard is made for our market so i cant wait to tomorrow!

Well, Bedard is a no doubter!

Cooley played with more fire in his veins than any player in the draft but he is apparently quite introverted in person. I suspect his introverted nature was less alarming than Wright's social awkwardness which does not play well when being interviewed by a room full of former jocks lol. Most former hockey players have a number of references in their memories of quiet players who raised hell on the ice but the socially awkward goofiness that Wright brings is far less common in their world and would set off alarm bells for sure.

I think Detroit wants Dvorsky. (If he's still there for them)
To be fair I am sure every team really wants Dvorsky it is just a matter of who is left on the board with him.

I do wonder however, if Montreal will be hesitant to take a 3rd consecutive Slovak in the 1st round. It shouldn't really matter but we are talking about human beings getting in to their own heads as the species is apt to do lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CristianoRonaldo

ginomini

Registered User
May 25, 2014
818
930
To be fair I am sure every team really wants Dvorsky it is just a matter of who is left on the board with him.
He's the Marco Kasper of this draft for that. Checks relatively hight everywhere and has the energy of a "pro" player.

I can already here the post-draft interviews of the team that drafted him. "He's already a pro, plays and acts like a pro. He's a very mature player while being one of the youngest guys drafted in the first round. etc, etc."

Not exciting for fans, but its totally normal that professional organizations seek that type of player/character.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Estimated_Prophet

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,128
12,304
He's the Marco Kasper of this draft for that. Checks relatively hight everywhere and has the energy of a "pro" player.

I can already here the post-draft interviews of the team that drafted him. "He's already a pro, plays and acts like a pro. He's a very mature player while being one of the youngest guys drafted in the first round. etc, etc."

Not exciting for fans, but its totally normal that professional organizations seek that type of player/character.
I loved Kasper as well and think Detroit have a gem on their hands. I think Dvorsky's shot and ability to score from distance is what separates Dvorsky's upside from Kasper"s.

I would be more excited than many fans as I do believe that the foundation for a Pastrnak level star is right there under the surface. This of course is not what I believe to be his likely development trajectory but I do see the potential for such a meteoric rise. If it doesn't happen then we likely at worst have a middle of the lineup center which is a great floor or possibly a top six forward who might be around a ppg player.
 
Last edited:

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,128
12,304
I just want people to imagine a PP with Caufield on the left dot, Dvorsky on the right dot, Suzuki as the bumper, Slaf at the right side/front of the net and Hutson manning the point. Two righties on the left and two lefties on the right with a 3 way low bumper triangle between Suzuki, Slaf and Dvorsky and a high triangle between Suzuki, Caufield and Hutson where Hutson can choose to dissect seams for one timer's in all directions as well as Suzuki taking or bumping passes for one timers in all directions. This lineup also places both a RH center (Suzuki) and a LH center (Dvorsky) on the ice which assures us of always having a center on his strong side on faceoffs.

We are witnessing how important PP's are in the playoffs and Dvorsky might be the perfect piece to finish the puzzle.

Eggplants for days boys!!!
 
Last edited:

Hins77

Registered User
Apr 2, 2013
4,056
3,722
Its a good question that needs a pragmatic analysis.

Elias Petterson was PPG in this league in his draft year. Lekkerimaki had more points in the SHL last year then he had this year in the Allvenskan. Context matter.

Dvorsky has played with the worst team in this league. He also had low TOI and he did not have prime offensive minutes. Those are defensive league where most team plays the trap. Its unwatchable seriously. That does not explain everything of course but its something to consider. He is totally obliterating his peers tho. Dvorsky does not have the offensive tools of Petterson.

One thing, Fantilli will be 19 when the next NHL season starts. Dvorsky will still be 18 when the Stanley Cup is lifted in 2024. I hope Dvorsky will make the Slovakian team for the World Cup, that should give us a brighter idea of his ultimate potential.
I thought we had enough heard that sort of comparison when we compared Tkachuk vs KK…
 

ReHabs

Registered User
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2022
8,120
12,475
Its a good question that needs a pragmatic analysis.

Elias Petterson was PPG in this league in his draft year. Lekkerimaki had more points in the SHL last year then he had this year in the Allvenskan. Context matter.

Dvorsky has played with the worst team in this league. He also had low TOI and he did not have prime offensive minutes. Those are defensive league where most team plays the trap. Its unwatchable seriously. That does not explain everything of course but its something to consider. He is totally obliterating his peers tho. Dvorsky does not have the offensive tools of Petterson.

One thing, Fantilli will be 19 when the next NHL season starts. Dvorsky will still be 18 when the Stanley Cup is lifted in 2024. I hope Dvorsky will make the Slovakian team for the World Cup, that should give us a brighter idea of his ultimate potential.

I watched a bit of Dvorskys league play, and it wasn’t a case where he was overwhelmed in the league. He was playing with plugs on his line, frequently Dvorsky would see thing they wouldn’t see. And as others said his role and TOI wasn’t optimal for production either.

And that’s why often production can be misleading as your linemates and usage have major impacts on your production. But Dvorskys skills were evident and he played a big body game against men that was very impressive, no fear at all in this kid.

The one thing he needs to work on is consistency in his stride, but otherwise he’s the complete package.
Thanks fellas.

A (perhaps excessively) critical view on the situation is to say something like:
(1) Dvorsky was not able to earn more TOI despite being on a very bad team,
(2) his inability to produce against defenders who are not NHL-calibre does not indicate reason to be optimistic for when he has to produce against NHL-calibre defenders, and
(3) his inability to raise the game of his linemates indicates he is not yet a top-tier playmaker

Why should the Habs risk this important pick on a player with dubious production upside?

See what I'm getting at here?

With top picks should only draft players who have either (1) actually obliterated their peers (ie were too good for their league) or (2) have set performance benchmarks that have historically indicated greatness to come (eg their production rates in various leagues).

The argument for (1) is obvious: the NHL is the pinnacle of the sport and no one is entitled to thrive in the NHL unless they'd surely obliterate their lesser-than-NHL leagues -- this is why the criticisms of Mesar's underwhelming year are valid (though not conclusive, development is a process that cannot be rushed), in D+1 Mesar has not been able to stand out in the CHL, he is therefore very far from the NHL and his stock has lowered.

The argument for (2) is also obvious: if the player cannot obliterate the field, then at least his numbers must be at certain benchmarks that have correlated with success in the NHL. This is what everybody is saying about Michkov for instance -- that his numbers, at his age, are strongly indicating future success.

Personally, I don't care about "200ft" game, I don't care about "intangibles", I don't care about "he plays the game the right way", and unless it affects his ability to produce in the NHL I don't care about his size or speed even, etc. All that stuff is secondary to the fact we need a big time point producer. He needs to be a forward, C or W (preferably C), and he needs to demonstrate he can be relied on to produce like a workhorse. It's not too much to ask for the Habs to draft for production upside instead of drafting for "hates to lose more than likes to win" or whatever pop-psych drafting nonsense we suffered under the previous regime.
 

WeThreeKings

Demidov is a HAB
Sep 19, 2006
95,541
106,904
Halifax
who's the best goalie in this draft class?

Michael Hrabal

then either Fowler or Bjarnason.

next group is Gajan, Clara and Augustine

I think I've been far too harsh on Eduard Sale. The offensive talent is definitely there, even if he leaves a lot to be desired with his play usually. He's still that electric player that I noticed at the 4 nations last year, this year just didn't really go his way.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see Yzerman pick him up. Actually reminds me a bit of Raymond that way.

Someone is gonna be very happy getting him in the teens. He's one of the most skilled in this draft it's just too bad the compete is so hit or miss and his club team was a travesty
 

Michoulicious

Registered User
Dec 9, 2014
7,508
8,246
I watched a bit of Dvorskys league play, and it wasn’t a case where he was overwhelmed in the league. He was playing with plugs on his line, frequently Dvorsky would see thing they wouldn’t see. And as others said his role and TOI wasn’t optimal for production either.

And that’s why often production can be misleading as your linemates and usage have major impacts on your production. But Dvorskys skills were evident and he played a big body game against men that was very impressive, no fear at all in this kid.

The one thing he needs to work on is consistency in his stride, but otherwise he’s the complete package.
"Complete package" is a bit strong...

He does have good puck protection, good defensive instincts, good shot...

But he does not have the hands of a Barkov... And his skating is average at best.

Dvorsky is kind of a Kotkaniemi type of pick, where you see the physical tools and the package and you hope for a burst offensively.

Floor is an excellent NHL 3rd line C. Ceiling is a big, powerful #1 C like Barkov... But that seems unlikely given his D-1 production in a lower-tier swedish men's league.

Carlsson, for exemple, is producing a lot more in the superior SHL. The offensive upside for Carlsson is more obvious, and he has way better hands.

I'd say a guy like Fantilli is, on paper, the real "full package". Big, skates like the wind, physical, good shot, soft hands...
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,816
13,739
"Complete package" is a bit strong...

He does have good puck protection, good defensive instincts, good shot...

But he does not have the hands of a Barkov... And his skating is average at best.

Dvorsky is kind of a Kotkaniemi type of pick, where you see the physical tools and the package and you hope for a burst offensively.

Floor is an excellent NHL 3rd line C. Ceiling is a big, powerful #1 C like Barkov... But that seems unlikely given his D-1 production in a lower-tier swedish men's league.

Carlsson, for exemple, is producing a lot more in the superior SHL. The offensive upside for Carlsson is more obvious, and he has way better hands.

I'd say a guy like Fantilli is, on paper, the real "full package". Big, skates like the wind, physical, good shot, soft hands...
His skating is inconsistent, but think it has the upside to improve. I’ve seen him absolutely fly when he needed to

Wood is always the slowest guy on the ice, and usually a step ahead of the play. Slaf is usually the most athletic guy on the ice, and often behind. Must be a coincidence or something.
Put Wood in the NHL at 18 and see how great you think that IQ is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad