2023 NHL Entry Draft

[SOLR]

Every kid on the team cheats high, even your very own Moore. The anticipation is a gameplan tactic. You can see this very well with Perrault who does it really well.

None of the USDP kids are that impressive if Im honest. Feels like Nazar has better tools than all of them. Leonard is the one I want more because he has a unique game.

How is Moore gonna score those 70 points? He barely has a shot and hes not an elite playmaker.

He is a very smart player and doesn't rely solely on his skating, but when the skating advantage goes away, what tool will allow him to score all those points?

The main difference between Drouin and Sale is the shot. Drouin never really had one and Sale has a laser. Also Sale doesnt suffer from the "Deke through everyone with my head down" syndrome.

Agreed. Meanwhile, you have guys like Yager sliding the rankings because he's learning something. You know how much I dislike the USDP, it's the same every year: a draft inflation device vs. a development engine. I've looked at them for 60-70 hours at this point and I see so many bad habits, this year those are worse it seems, their system is configured in a way that is opposite to the NHL teams - but they can do it because their opposition is not great. I see the talent in the team in all the usual suspects but it's very hard to know who will scale well in the NHL because there's a lot of cheating going on.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I would take Reinbacher + Cristall over Dvorsky/Benson + ASP

 

[WeThreeKings]

Agreed. Meanwhile, you have guys like Yager sliding the rankings because he's learning something. You know how much I dislike the USDP, it's the same every year: a draft inflation device vs. a development engine. I've looked at them for 60-70 hours at this point and I see so many bad habits, this year those are worse it seems, their system is configured in a way that is opposite to the NHL teams - but they can do it because their opposition is not great. I see the talent in the team in all the usual suspects but it's very hard to know who will scale well in the NHL because there's a lot of cheating going on.

Morreale mentioned that on Yager, he actually is trying to round out his playmaking game this year, feels the pressure of expectation a bit and isn't scoring goals at the rate he would like.. but expects him to really bring it in the back half of this year and the play-offs.

Regarding the USNDTP, despite your concerns, that program is still churning out talent. Caufield, Boldy, Zegras and Hughes from the same team are really f***ing good. Even last year, Cooley, Snuggerud, Gauthier etc. are all having strong NCAA debuts and I -hated- Snuggerud's IQ.

I generally try to watch when they play the NCAA teams. That's where the evaluation is most important cause they don't have the wide skill gap and they are playing against stronger, 20 year old men.

 

[SOLR]

Morreale mentioned that on Yager, he actually is trying to round out his playmaking game this year, feels the pressure of expectation a bit and isn't scoring goals at the rate he would like.. but expects him to really bring it in the back half of this year and the play-offs.

Regarding the USNDTP, despite your concerns, that program is still churning out talent. Caufield, Boldy, Zegras and Hughes from the same team are really f***ing good. Even last year, Cooley, Snuggerud, Gauthier etc. are all having strong NCAA debuts and I -hated- Snuggerud's IQ.

I generally try to watch when they play the NCAA teams. That's where the evaluation is most important cause they don't have the wide skill gap and they are playing against stronger, 20 year old men.

The program is taking in the best players in the country, so of course it will output talent. It would be alarming for the US if they weren't. Caufield, Boldy, Zegras, didn't need the program to become what they are. The program is not churning out talent it's absorbing the talent that already exists and packaging it for drafting.

I hate it because it is a disservice to the NHL by creating a false narrative around players who would not otherwise have a high profile (Turcotte). It's a disservice to many players, who don't get the development they need because they get to play in an all-star team all year-long, playing exhibition games.

I'm staring at this year's group and I know it's not that strong but because they are together and form a good team, they are hard to disassemble and look at the individual impact.

 

[NewEraGM]

I would take Reinbacher + Cristall over Dvorsky/Benson + ASP

Yes easily for me too. Reinbacher over ASP. He could go very high though. He could be 6-8. We would have to take him with our pick most likely.

 

[Mrb1p]

What are you talking about man? Moore is strongly skilled at both passing & shooting. You don't need to be an elite shooter to score goals. Moore is really good at changing the angle of his release, and he has a quick wrister and a nasty one-timer.

If Danault can score 20 goals in the NHL - the epitome of a shit shooter than Moore can as well.

Really ? Hes a good garbage goal kid and has a good one-timer but I havent ever seen him actually really challenge a goaltender with his shot. Maybe with a left-right-roof move but not in a goalscorer way.

Sure, if you use the Danault logic, almost anyone can score 20. Personally though, when drafting top 10, even top 15, Id much rather have a player thats not on Danaults level offensively. His playmaking is better and I could see him as a 35-40 assists kind of guy. I just don't see how he gets over the hump and produces those 30 other points. 20-50? I dont see it.

Im not even sure Smith has that offensive gear in him after watching more and more. Might be just me despising the USDP though, f*** that hockey is always so boring. They cheat high, go one way, get sent the other way. Leonard is the only one I really like and even hes not a guaranteed top 6.

 

[morhilane]

Im not even sure Smith has that offensive gear in him after watching more and more. Might be just me despising the USDP though, f*** that hockey is always so boring. They cheat high, go one way, get sent the other way. Leonard is the only one I really like and even hes not a guaranteed top 6.

I'm seeing more people questioning the USDP draftees since the new year. I find it interesting.

Actually, the first rounders are starting to get more criticisms. I think we are approaching the threshold where people start to claim the 2024 draft will be better (outside of Bedard).

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm seeing more people questioning the USDP draftees since the new year. I find it interesting.

Actually, the first rounders are starting to get more criticisms. I think we are approaching the threshold where people start to claim the 2024 draft will be better (outside of Bedard).

Its overscouting, happens every year. Weve known their qualities for a while now.

I have heard that claim but for defenders, but its coming.

 

[NewEraGM]

The program is taking in the best players in the country, so of course it will output talent. It would be alarming for the US if they weren't. Caufield, Boldy, Zegras, didn't need the program to become what they are. The program is not churning out talent it's absorbing the talent that already exists and packaging it for drafting.

I hate it because it is a disservice to the NHL by creating a false narrative around players who would not otherwise have a high profile (Turcotte). It's a disservice to many players, who don't get the development they need because they get to play in an all-star team all year-long, playing exhibition games.

I'm staring at this year's group and I know it's not that strong but because they are together and form a good team, they are hard to disassemble and look at the individual impact.

I disagree with this . To say USDP is not developing players, but instead just absorbing players is ridiculous. It’s arguably been the program/team that’s churned out the most players in the first round over the past 3 years since the 2019. That team likely had more players drafted from their team than any of each of all the teams in each of the CHL leagues.

 

[Mrb1p]

I disagree with this . To say USDP is not developing players, but instead just absorbing players is ridiculous. It’s arguably been the program/team that’s churned out the most players in the first round over the past 3 years since the 2019. That team likely had more players drafted from their team than any of each of all the teams in each of the CHL leagues.

Because they have the best talent from a 500 million people country. Of course theyll have talent coming out of it...

 

[NewEraGM]

Because they have the best talent from a 500 million people country. Of course theyll have talent coming out of it...

Just google some of the names that came out of USDP…also far fewer Americans play hockey as a percentage of the total population. Something like 500k registered hockey players in the USA and it’s nearly the exact same in Canada.

 

[Mrb1p]

Just google some of the names that came out of USDP…also far fewer Americans play hockey as a percentage of the total population. Something like 500k registered hockey players in the USA and it’s nearly the exact same in Canada.

So if the majority of Canadas 500k talent pool was concentrated in one program...

It doesnt take a genius to figure out what SOLR was saying.

 

[Playmaker09]

Really ? Hes a good garbage goal kid and has a good one-timer but I havent ever seen him actually really challenge a goaltender with his shot. Maybe with a left-right-roof move but not in a goalscorer way.

Sure, if you use the Danault logic, almost anyone can score 20. Personally though, when drafting top 10, even top 15, Id much rather have a player thats not on Danaults level offensively. His playmaking is better and I could see him as a 35-40 assists kind of guy. I just don't see how he gets over the hump and produces those 30 other points. 20-50? I dont see it.

Im not even sure Smith has that offensive gear in him after watching more and more. Might be just me despising the USDP though, f*** that hockey is always so boring. They cheat high, go one way, get sent the other way. Leonard is the only one I really like and even hes not a guaranteed top 6.

Moore has quite a good shot. He absolutely can and does beat goaltenders clean with it, and it's heavier than Smith or Perrault's. It's easily his second best tool after skating, hence the Larkin comparisons. Hands are a little above average as well, but not on the level of the other 3.

On the other hand, his passing kinda sucks. He has good intentions and he doesn't tunnel in on his speed/shot, which I like. But while he gets a ton of opportunities to make plays based off his speed and motor (which is why the assist totals are decent), his actual execution on those passes is suspect at best.

I think the playmaking will develop based on his willingness to pass the puck and the opportunities he generates, but to what extent when the degree of difficulty and speed of the game increases around him as he plays at higher levels? That question is what keeps him just outside the top 10 for me rather than 5 spots higher.

 

[NewEraGM]

So if the majority of Canadas 500k talent pool was concentrated in one program...

It doesnt take a genius to figure out what SOLR was saying.

Yes I understand. first, you were the one that quoted the us population which is an irrelevant number. The relevant number is the number of hockey players.

Secondly, the idea that USDP hasn’t developed anyone is absurd. Players stay 2 years generally in the program and none of them would have been drafted as high as they have been if they hadn’t been developed at all in those 2 years. It’s an absolutely absurd statement.

 

[le_sean]

What are you talking about man? Moore is strongly skilled at both passing & shooting. You don't need to be an elite shooter to score goals. Moore is really good at changing the angle of his release, and he has a quick wrister and a nasty one-timer.

If Danault can score 20 goals in the NHL - the epitome of a shit shooter than Moore can as well.

I think Moore would be a great fit for this team. Lots of good skaters with the young core, but no one truly elite. He’d bring another dynamic.

 

[morhilane]

I disagree with this . To say USDP is not developing players, but instead just absorbing players is ridiculous. It’s arguably been the program/team that’s churned out the most players in the first round over the past 3 years since the 2019. That team likely had more players drafted from their team than any of each of all the teams in each of the CHL leagues.

The USDP isn't a team like the teams in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL. It's the U17 and U18 national teams that plays together year long.

The CHL teams are way more diluted in talent by comparison, but the CHL as a whole had more players taken in the 1st round last year than the USDP.

 

[McGees]

Moore or Leonard.
Making my prediction now that’s who we take with our 1st.

 

[SOLR]

I disagree with this . To say USDP is not developing players, but instead just absorbing players is ridiculous. It’s arguably been the program/team that’s churned out the most players in the first round over the past 3 years since the 2019. That team likely had more players drafted from their team than any of each of all the teams in each of the CHL leagues.

They are recruiting 90% of the talent and outputting 90% of the talent...big woopiedoo

A good program would be absorbing 30% of talent and output 60% of the talent. But that's not happening AT ALL, not even close. They are not developing talents at all. Sure good players will progress, but they are not changing their trajectories.

You are comparing the USDP to a CHL team? The USDP is the all-star team of U-16 that grows up together. Imagine a team Canadian team with Bedard, Yager, Barlow, Heidt together and how their draft ranking would be inflated. The fact that you make this comparison is a case in point that you don't understand these systems at all.

 

[SOLR]

Yes I understand. first, you were the one that quoted the us population which is an irrelevant number. The relevant number is the number of hockey players.

Secondly, the idea that USDP hasn’t developed anyone is absurd. Players stay 2 years generally in the program and none of them would have been drafted as high as they have been if they hadn’t been developed at all in those 2 years. It’s an absolutely absurd statement.

You nailed it, it's a promotion machine. Now take into account the Jeremy Roenick / Steve Larmer / Leech generation of US players (pre national program) and the growth of hockey in the US (mostly because of the number of NHL teams), and you'll see rapidly that the national program changed NOTHING. Nada. Zilch. These players would be much better leading USHL teams and being exposed to more real competition than playing exhibition games for 2 years.

My dream is to have a memorial cup with 4 USHL teams and 4 CHL teams...that would develop hockey.

 

[NewEraGM]

They are recruiting 90% of the talent and outputting 90% of the talent...big woopiedoo

A good program would be absorbing 30% of talent and output 60% of the talent. But that's not happening AT ALL, not even close. They are not developing talents at all. Sure good players will progress, but they are not changing their trajectories.

You are comparing the USDP to a CHL team? The USDP is the all-star team of U-16 that grows up together. Imagine a team Canadian team with Bedard, Yager, Barlow, Heidt together and how their draft ranking would be inflated. The fact that you make this comparison is a case in point that you don't understand these systems at all.

I mean it’s just completely incorrect. If no development happened from the time a player enters the program and leaves, Hughes wouldn’t go first overall lol. You’re saying he was so far ahead in his development, he was a full 2 years ahead and every other player in the world his age still couldn’t catch him? It’s absolutely an outrageous take

 

[ginomini]

I mean it’s just completely incorrect. If no development happened from the time a player enters the program and leaves, Hughes wouldn’t go first overall lol. You’re saying he was so far ahead in his development, he was a full 2 years ahead and every other player in the world his age still couldn’t catch him? It’s absolutely an outrageous take

No one said that. What was said is that the program does not develop players any better than any other junior team. Not that zero development happens…

 

[NewEraGM]

No one said that. What was said is that the program does not develop players any better than any other junior team. Not that zero development happens…

Well he said “the program doesnt change the players trajectories” in other words, that means the program isn’t adding anything to the players development

 

[Draft]

What are peoples' feelings on the players from the CNTDP? I'm a big fan of Bedard, Fantilli, Benson, Cristall, Yager, Barlow, Bonk, Bjarnason, Heidt, Ritchie, Wood, Danielson, Ziemmer, and Dragicevic. Crazy that more than half of this team could end up picked in the 1st round. Historic season for the CNTDP, really shows how hockey is growing in Canada and the incredible development work the CNTDP is doing.

 

[morhilane]

Well he said “the program doesnt change the players trajectories” in other words, that means the program isn’t adding anything to the players development

Those kids would develop just fine if they played in normal USHL teams and the NCAA.

Example: Fantilli. He's Canadian so he can't be a member of the USDP. He developed just fine via the USHL Chicago Steel team and now he's destroying the NCAA.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

No American teams will pick Michkov, maybe in the second round, don't think the Habs will have the guts to pick him in the first round.