2023 NHL Entry Draft Discussion

[MS]

Elite Prospects just annihilated Cristall. They are very very low on him. Some points that they made:

- Super Lazy and Lost when the other team has the puck
- Zero explosiveness to his game, has a hard time beating guys outside in the WHL level.
- Game is predictable, always pulls up on the boards when entering the blueline.
- Skating is poor to average. Wont be able to get away with his dangles at the NHL level because of his skating and lack of explosiveness


I'd have red flag on Cristall for sure. I do not think his game will translate well in the NHL.

If we are picking in the 11th spot, depending on who is available, i wouldnt mind trading down and getting an extra late 1st or early 2nd.

Cristall is one of those guys you hope is drafted before you pick and you hope you don’t have to make a decision on.

He’s very talented, and there’s probably a 10% chance or whatever that he turns into a Gaudreau/Panarin/Marner mega-producing small winger and makes you look stupid for passing on him.

But he’s also a slowish, low-motor perimeter player who has a huge change of turning into a smaller, crappier Trevor Zegras.

Between 11-15 he’s probably worth taking a swing for the upside, but I’d have a really hard time taking him in the top 10.

 

[NomadSports94]

Cristall is one of those guys you hope is drafted before you pick and you hope you don’t have to make a decision on.

He’s very talented, and there’s probably a 10% chance or whatever that he turns into a Gaudreau/Panarin/Marner mega-producing small winger and makes you look stupid for passing on him.

But he’s also a slowish, low-motor perimeter player who has a huge change of turning into a smaller, crappier Trevor Zegras.

Between 11-15 he’s probably worth taking a swing for the upside, but I’d have a really hard time taking him in the top 10.

I wouldnt draft him unless you are in the 20s like Schroeder back in the day. So many better prospects ranked in that top 20 that dont have the glaring red flags that Cristall has

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Through trial and error....I've divorced myself from picking any player the Canucks should/shouldn't draft.( because we really dont know the half of it..imo)...I just hope they pick the right guy.

It wasnt that long ago that everyone here (myself included) unanimously said that we shouldn't draft Brady Tkachuk (even if he fell to us)...Go figure.

 

[ahmon]

The thing with Cristall is he does have good vision and hands.

If you are going to draft a small forward, the key is the ability to make plays.

Of course there's only so many spots in the entire NHL for these players. So if you draft him you are betting he hits it out of the park is a top 10 offensive winger not in the draft but the entire NHL, and that's why it feels like these type of prospects are hit and miss.

But its no different than someone like Zach Benson. So what if he has a better motor? At 5'10 if he doesn't produce a lot offensively - he's also barely an NHLer. Its not like his motor will allow him to be a great 5'10 bot 6 forward.

 

[MS]

Through trial and error....I've divorced myself from picking any player the Canucks should/shouldn't draft.( because we really dont know the half of it..imo)...I just hope they pick the right guy.

It wasnt that long ago that everyone here (myself included) unanimously said that we shouldn't draft Brady Tkachuk (even if he fell to us)...Go figure.

I’ll freely admit to being totally wrong on Tkachuk.

He was the oldest player in his draft (1 day away from being eligible the previous year) and scored 8 goals in 40 games in the NCAA. Didn’t seem to have the vision/x-factor of his brother and looked like a much more simple big north-south sort of guy. To me he looked he’d be a solid, useful NHL player – 15-20 goal, 35-45 point heavy middle-6 winger, like a meaner Colin Wilson – but I didn’t think the upside was there to justify a top-5 pick.

That he’s become an 80+ point player kind of blows my mind.

 

[NomadSports94]

The thing with Cristall is he does have good vision and hands.

If you are going to draft a small forward, the key is the ability to make plays.

Of course there's only so many spots in the entire NHL for these players. So if you draft him you are betting he hits it out of the park is a top 10 offensive winger not in the draft but the entire NHL, and that's why it feels like these type of prospects are hit and miss.

But its no different than someone like Zach Benson. So what if he has a better motor? At 5'10 if he doesn't produce a lot offensively - he's also barely an NHLer. Its not like his motor will allow him to be a great 5'10 bot 6 forward.

Benson very well can be a middle 6 NHLer. He has the skating and hockey IQ to play all situations and succeed. Cristall is a perimeter one dimensional winger

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

April Rankings out:

Sportsnet's 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: April Edition

1.) Connor Bedard, C, Regina Pats (WHL)
2.) Adam Fantilli, C, U of Michigan (NCAA)
3.) Matvei Michkov, RW, Sochi (KHL)
4.) Leo Carlsson, C, Orebro (SHL)
5.) Will Smith, C, USNTDP
6.) Zachary Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice (WHL)
7.) Colby Barlow, RW, Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
8.) Ryan Leonard, RW, USNTDP
9.) David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI)
10.) Samuel Honzek, LW, Vancouver Giants (WHL)
11.) Nate Danielson, C, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
12.) Eduard Sale, RW, Brno (Czechia)
13.) Axel Sandin-Pellikka, D, Skelleftea (Sweden J20)
14.) Oliver Moore, C, USNTDP
15.) Brayden Yager, C, Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
16.) Dalibor Dvorsky, C, AIK (Allsvenskan)
17.) Daniil But, LW, Yaroslavl (KHL)
18.) Andrew Cristall, LW, Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
19.) Oliver Bonk, D, London Knights (OHL)
20.) Matthew Wood, RW, UConn (NCAA)
21.) Riley Heidt, C, Prince George Cougars (WHL)
22.) Gabriel Perreault, RW, USNTDP
23.) Quentin Musty, LW, Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
24.) Charle Stramel, RW, Wisconsin University (NCAA)
25.) Mikhail Gulyayev, D, Omsk (MHL)
26.) Ethan Gauthier, RW, Sherbrooke Phoenix (QMJHL)
27.) Calum Ritchie, C, Oshawa Generals (OHL)
28.) Gracyn Sawchyn, C, Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL)
29.) Kalan Lind, LW, Red Deer Rebels (WHL)
30.) Nick Lardis, LW, Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL)
31.) Maxim Strbak, D, Sioux Falls (USHL)
32.) Felix Nilsson, C, Rogle U20 (Sweden)

 

[Diamonddog01]

This is just such nonsense. We were sitting 6th bottom based on generationally terrible goaltending and a tough schedule. I don't know how many times I tried explaining that it wasn't sustainable and that we were nowhere near as bad as the teams around us, and we weren't and it wasn't.

Outside of forcibly holding Demko out of the lineup and starting Martin in 80% of the games, we weren't getting a top-5 pick. And with the way the schedule softened up, even that probably wouldn't have been enough.

And of course strong play and results changes value, and of course it's better that Brock Boeser finished well and at a 60-point pace instead of cratering to 45 points or whatever. Same with JT Miller's huge 2nd half bump, if they're looking at moving him.

I mean...you were and are right regarding the team not being as bad as they were prior to Boudreau being fired however the bolded isn't really that important vs the team getting the best odds to draft 1st or 2nd overall in the big picture / long run. They obviously aren't bad things but a few years from now no one will really care that much about Boeser scoring an extra 15 points or Miller salvaging his season. Could it impact potential offseason trades and subsequent other moves? Sure...but all that will most likely do is re-arrange the deck chairs on the marsh boat (ie keep us spinning our wheels / fan in the mushy, marshy middle). The best route to take the next step is getting elite talent - and that's why many of us are bemoaning the exponential reduction in 1st or 2nd overall odds the more the team wins these meaningless games.

 

[clay]

Expect the pick to be traded, but if we keep it and Reinbacher is off the board, I wouldn't be opposed to reaching for Dragicevik. Big body and a great puck mover who put up huge numbers this year. He's raw defensively, but you would try to develop this part of his game as he has the tools to figure it out. Local boy as well, even though that should never factor into the pick.

 

[geebaan]

Yager a bit lower than I thought

 

[Vector]

April Rankings out:

Sportsnet's 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: April Edition

1.) Connor Bedard, C, Regina Pats (WHL)
2.) Adam Fantilli, C, U of Michigan (NCAA)
3.) Matvei Michkov, RW, Sochi (KHL)
4.) Leo Carlsson, C, Orebro (SHL)
5.) Will Smith, C, USNTDP
6.) Zachary Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice (WHL)
7.) Colby Barlow, RW, Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
8.) Ryan Leonard, RW, USNTDP
9.) David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI)
10.) Samuel Honzek, LW, Vancouver Giants (WHL)
11.) Nate Danielson, C, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
12.) Eduard Sale, RW, Brno (Czechia)
13.) Axel Sandin-Pellikka, D, Skelleftea (Sweden J20)
14.) Oliver Moore, C, USNTDP
15.) Brayden Yager, C, Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
16.) Dalibor Dvorsky, C, AIK (Allsvenskan)
17.) Daniil But, LW, Yaroslavl (KHL)
18.) Andrew Cristall, LW, Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
19.) Oliver Bonk, D, London Knights (OHL)
20.) Matthew Wood, RW, UConn (NCAA)
21.) Riley Heidt, C, Prince George Cougars (WHL)
22.) Gabriel Perreault, RW, USNTDP
23.) Quentin Musty, LW, Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
24.) Charle Stramel, RW, Wisconsin University (NCAA)
25.) Mikhail Gulyayev, D, Omsk (MHL)
26.) Ethan Gauthier, RW, Sherbrooke Phoenix (QMJHL)
27.) Calum Ritchie, C, Oshawa Generals (OHL)
28.) Gracyn Sawchyn, C, Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL)
29.) Kalan Lind, LW, Red Deer Rebels (WHL)
30.) Nick Lardis, LW, Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL)
31.) Maxim Strbak, D, Sioux Falls (USHL)
32.) Felix Nilsson, C, Rogle U20 (Sweden)

N0 onE hAs ReINbAcHeR iN ThE TOp-10!

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Somehow obtaining Pitt's 2023 1st in a Miller deal would be Yuge.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

This is just such nonsense. We were sitting 6th bottom based on generationally terrible goaltending and a tough schedule. I don't know how many times I tried explaining that it wasn't sustainable and that we were nowhere near as bad as the teams around us, and we weren't and it wasn't.

Outside of forcibly holding Demko out of the lineup and starting Martin in 80% of the games, we weren't getting a top-5 pick. And with the way the schedule softened up, even that probably wouldn't have been enough.

And of course strong play and results changes value, and of course it's better that Brock Boeser finished well and at a 60-point pace instead of cratering to 45 points or whatever. Same with JT Miller's huge 2nd half bump, if they're looking at moving him.



Pretty much this. Sports fandom in 2023 is being overrun by teenagers and people with teenage-level brains who think life is the same as videogames.

Would you be happy if Sutter/Granlund/Eriksson pad their stats more in garbage time in 2016-17 and drop us a couple more slots in the draft, so instead of drafting 5th and taking Petterson we get 7th and Andersen instead?

Or maybe we should play core player like Baertschi and foundational Sutter more during garbage time in 2017-18 more and drop out of top 10 altogether and miss out on Hughes?

Boeser having 60pts instead of 45pts means very little in the overall long term health of this team. JTM huge 2nd half bump means very little as well since management isn't looking to move him, and would only do so if the stars align in a near-impossible way. Their "change in value", if any, is fairly inconsequential when compared to the increase in draft position and what that can do for a franchise, not to mention the increased odds of drafting 1st/2nd overall. Sure we probably wouldn't have finished bottom 4 in the standing no matter what, but drafting #6 instead of #11, for example, is enormous. It is the difference between a franchise player (like EP and Hughes), instead of Mittelstadt or Wahlstrom. What will make Petey happier, another franchise player on the team, or being #22 overall in the 2022-23 standing instead of #28?

 

[racerjoe]

Only way I would put any blame from the Pearson complications on the Canucks is if they recommended unnecessary surgery. From what I understand he has been dealing with an infection and every time you perform surgery there is a not-zero-percentage chance of an infection.

I'm glad you linked that article:

"This is only a stopgap measure though. As time progresses, as more load is consistently placed on an injured knee without an ACL, other issues will start appearing. The aforementioned meniscus issues might surface, the other knee might see an increase in the risk of injury, the ankle or hip gives way from overcompensation."

Again, if thats all you took from that single article... note there is more, and was more at the time, then you should re-read the article.

There is like two points in there this one included about it being negative, and then a bunch of points about it not being bad, and how it is even different in hockey, and the main point in the end saying as long as it is properly monitored it isn't bad.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Elite Prospects just annihilated Cristall. They are very very low on him. Some points that they made:

- Super Lazy and Lost when the other team has the puck
- Zero explosiveness to his game, has a hard time beating guys outside in the WHL level.
- Game is predictable, always pulls up on the boards when entering the blueline.
- Skating is poor to average. Wont be able to get away with his dangles at the NHL level because of his skating and lack of explosiveness


I'd have red flag on Cristall for sure. I do not think his game will translate well in the NHL.

If we are picking in the 11th spot, depending on who is available, i wouldnt mind trading down and getting an extra late 1st or early 2nd.

They still have him number 8 on their list. Bobs list which is usually they best at actually predicting how the draft board will look like has him at 18. Personally if I was looking for a player in a similar mold I would take Perron and Lardis (has a been great in the playoffs) over him.

 

[Nucker101]

April Rankings out:

Sportsnet's 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: April Edition

1.) Connor Bedard, C, Regina Pats (WHL)
2.) Adam Fantilli, C, U of Michigan (NCAA)
3.) Matvei Michkov, RW, Sochi (KHL)
4.) Leo Carlsson, C, Orebro (SHL)
5.) Will Smith, C, USNTDP
6.) Zachary Benson, LW, Winnipeg Ice (WHL)
7.) Colby Barlow, RW, Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
8.) Ryan Leonard, RW, USNTDP
9.) David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI)
10.) Samuel Honzek, LW, Vancouver Giants (WHL)
11.) Nate Danielson, C, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
12.) Eduard Sale, RW, Brno (Czechia)
13.) Axel Sandin-Pellikka, D, Skelleftea (Sweden J20)
14.) Oliver Moore, C, USNTDP
15.) Brayden Yager, C, Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
16.) Dalibor Dvorsky, C, AIK (Allsvenskan)
17.) Daniil But, LW, Yaroslavl (KHL)
18.) Andrew Cristall, LW, Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
19.) Oliver Bonk, D, London Knights (OHL)
20.) Matthew Wood, RW, UConn (NCAA)
21.) Riley Heidt, C, Prince George Cougars (WHL)
22.) Gabriel Perreault, RW, USNTDP
23.) Quentin Musty, LW, Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
24.) Charle Stramel, RW, Wisconsin University (NCAA)
25.) Mikhail Gulyayev, D, Omsk (MHL)
26.) Ethan Gauthier, RW, Sherbrooke Phoenix (QMJHL)
27.) Calum Ritchie, C, Oshawa Generals (OHL)
28.) Gracyn Sawchyn, C, Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL)
29.) Kalan Lind, LW, Red Deer Rebels (WHL)
30.) Nick Lardis, LW, Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL)
31.) Maxim Strbak, D, Sioux Falls (USHL)
32.) Felix Nilsson, C, Rogle U20 (Sweden)

Oliver Moore looking attainable

 

[JohnHodgson]

Sorry i was wrong, going over list, the drop is after 8 not 9.

What's your list look like?

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Why is nobody taking Kalan Lind?

 

[DonnyNucker]

N0 onE hAs ReINbAcHeR iN ThE TOp-10!

Imagine believing that the first defensmen selected wouldn’t be in the top 10 LMFAO

 

[DFAC]

Disagree with you on Dvorsky. Hardly vanilla. If he had a little more speed he would be the 5th pick. His on puck skills IQ edges and 2 way acumen are excellent. The divisiveness is if he can't find another gear at the NHL level he wont be a line driver and i think that is where he falls down a bit in the rankings. Has a very translatable pro game and should be a C so if you think you can develop the skating a bit then he could be a Lindholm type player IMO. I like him obviously... more than i liked Glass in his draft year

Moore is an interesting one. Like everything about his game but his skills are not super high end and i wonder if he ends up as a winger in the NHL. He would be tough to pass on just because that skating and his work ethic could propel him to a Dylan Larkin type player and that's incredibly attractive. Everything for Moore will depend on how he processes the game at NHL speed and i know that's cliche but i wouldn't say he's at the top end of this draft classes IQ and skill

Danielson seems like a safe pick but as an 04 his production is not great from how that translates to a top6 C in the NHL. Is it because of the poor surroundings and lack of quality teammates or is it because he does most of his damage off the rush and on the PP and doesn't manipulate small area play that well? I think it's a little of both but Ridley Greig in Brandon was able to produce 1.51 ppg in his 18 yr old season while ND had 1.14. I do respect the fact they lost both Lorio and Nychuk and dont have a top end D or much in the way of winger help. Danielson is a good player just wonder about the ultimate upside and if it's even as a top6 C. From what i've seen i would be ok with the gamble

I would be happy with any of these 3 players and Brayden Yager is another who i feel is getting a bit underrated because his production hasn't popped but his 2 way game and playmaking that he set out to show he could develop more due to some criticisms in his 16/17yr old season has improved a lot. Yager has had his best games against other top players and the Hlinka and often moves off Firkus's line to balance the scoring and play against other top lines. Some arent convinced he's a C at the NHL level and he will need some meat on his bones to stay there. He reminds me of Jared McCann but i wouldn't write him off being a pivot yet as he very well could be a good one if he develops properly

These are my 4 favourite prospects in our range unless Reinbacher is still around. None of Leonard Barlow Musty Honzek and Sale are above them for me but are close and i could see the rationale even if i would disagree a bit from my armchair scouting. Cristall is a DND for me now even with the higher end skills.

This was a good write up, cheers

 

[VanJack]

Why is nobody taking Kalan Lind?

Could be for the same reason nobody was talking about Kole Lind in his draft year. His only value to the Canucks was that he was exposed and claimed by the Kraken in the expansion draft.

 

[Hansen]

Would not be opposed to Sandin Pellikka at 11

 

[VanJack]

Still don't know how these things are calculated.....but I see as of this morning, the Canucks have a 67 percent chance of picking 10th; and 17 percent chance of picking 11th.

That means the Canucks have a less than 15 percent chance of actually moving up in the draft; and 3 percent of leaping all the way to the first overall pick. Those are pretty poor odds for anyone, other than lottery ticket buyers.

So I guess you start zeroing in on who could still be on the board at picks 10-11, and who might 'slide'.

 

[MS]

Would you be happy if Sutter/Granlund/Eriksson pad their stats more in garbage time in 2016-17 and drop us a couple more slots in the draft, so instead of drafting 5th and taking Petterson we get 7th and Andersen instead?

Or maybe we should play core player like Baertschi and foundational Sutter more during garbage time in 2017-18 more and drop out of top 10 altogether and miss out on Hughes?

What if we lose even more games in 2017 and end up with Nolan Patrick? What if we win more in 2016 instead of absolutely tanking out and end up with Charlie McAvoy?

Examples like this are pointless. There is a loss of value when you drop a couple picks in the draft, but it isn't the be-all/end-all and, again, is trumped by other much more important stuff.

Boeser having 60pts instead of 45pts means very little in the overall long term health of this team. JTM huge 2nd half bump means very little as well since management isn't looking to move him, and would only do so if the stars align in a near-impossible way. Their "change in value", if any, is fairly inconsequential when compared to the increase in draft position and what that can do for a franchise, not to mention the increased odds of drafting 1st/2nd overall. Sure we probably wouldn't have finished bottom 4 in the standing no matter what, but drafting #6 instead of #11, for example, is enormous. It is the difference between a franchise player (like EP and Hughes), instead of Mittelstadt or Wahlstrom. What will make Petey happier, another franchise player on the team, or being #22 overall in the 2022-23 standing instead of #28?

And again, if a better finish for Boeser means we can move him out, that means a ton in terms of the long term overall health of the team.

We were never drafting that high. We were never as bad as the teams around us. We were always going to shoot up the standings when Demko returned and the generationally terrible goaltending that put us in that position temporarily normalized.

And it's also not like we didn't shut down multiple key players, trade our leading goal scorer and our best RHD, dress a bunch of college kids down the stretch, and so on. People are acting like we went all-out to move up the standings, and we didn't at all.

 

[Knight53]

Moore/Dvorsky/Barlow hopefully in the 8-11 range. U-18’s will be exciting.