HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[Goldenhands]

I mostly agree but i think you should have different type of players on your team that are able to complete each other. We don’t have a Smith. Slafkovsky could be a perfect player to play with him.

Smith, Leonard and Perreault complete each other well, they make a well balanced line but it’s not like it would be so hard to find guys that are able to play with Smith at the NHL level. You find those players easier than a Smith level talent if it makes sense.

That said, if for some reason we end up with Leonard i’m gonna be very happy also. He has way more skills and potential than some think.

You have a point, personally Im of the philosophy that you need to draft the best blend of skills/size/power/skating/IQ/motor, especially at the top of the draft.

 

[No More Subban]

Watching the playoffs once again, I can't fault gms for going with less skill if they identify heart and physical aspect in players, if someone identifies Smith as pure skill but a potential floater, they might go for a Leonard here

see.. you're not the first one to say this about smith. i want that lehkonen type with more skills and iq.

 

[Jack Skellington]

lol watching Smith a lot and he often forces Perrault or Leonard to play centre in the defensive zone by floating out towards the blue line. He leaves his guy and then one of them usually just ends up having to switch with him for the rest of the shift and he sort of just stands up by the dman. He is a skilled player but what would make a player do that kind of shit? Like obviously he knows how to play defense. Is it an attitude issue? I know the USDP dunks on most of these teams but he would be a slam dunk pick if he just cut that stuff out. I still want us to draft him if Michkov is gone because we are so starved for an offensive star but I wish just for once we had an easy pick.

Michkov not going to combine is another reason I think he slips out of top 5

The combine is the most useless f***ing thing on the planet. The interviews are the only thing that matters and teams can zoom him if they want to.

 

[No More Subban]

Some people confuse talent with flashyness, kids like Dvorsky, Leonard or Benson have alot of talent as well, with a grit factor to their game. The physical side of the game is very important when you climb up the levels, you need to win puck battles, so is your 200 ft work. There is no issue in that regard with those kids, what cant be said about Smith.

Smith's concerns are legit and you have to factor how his offensive numbers got inflated by the quality of his linemates and his 1-way commitment.

thank you. been saying the same thing about smith. he's all dangles.

with benson or leonard, not only they have the skills but they also have that dog mentality. habs fans appreciate that.

 

[Goldenhands]

thank you. been saying the same thing about smith. he's all dangles.

with benson or leonard, not only they have the skills but they also have that dog mentality. habs fans appreciate that.

To be fair, you cant deny the puck skills and vision, thats high level, but those are only parts of the overall package.

 

[phillytennis]

Too far.

Habs might be able to drop to 7th and still get Reinbacher.

At pick 9...either Reinbacher, Leonard or Benson should be available!!

Too far.

Habs might be able to drop to 7th and still get Reinbacher.

 

[Genghis Keon]

It seems there are 2 schools of thought about Leonard. Some seem to think he's a lunch pail guy with enough talent to produce some offense (so hard working guy with relatively limited upside). Others seem to think he's a talented offensive guy with a lunch pail mentality (so legit realistic top line potential with great intangibles).

I can see him breaking both ways. It'd be fantastic to have a blood and guts ppg guy who sets the tone for the team, but it'd kinda suck to walk away with a 40 point winger, even if he tries really hard and can complement any line.

As others have said, I guess it's the same for everyone outside of the top 4. Everyone else has their obvious warts and downsides.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Konnor Smith.

Big 6'6 dman, seems kind of physical, but not very good at fighting. Skating is OK for a player his size. Might be worth a later round pick? Anyone watch the petes more than this series to have a better read on him ?

 

[Kennerback]

It seems there are 2 schools of thought about Leonard. Some seem to think he's a lunch pail guy with enough talent to produce some offense (so hard working guy with relatively limited upside). Others seem to think he's a talented offensive guy with a lunch pail mentality (so legit realistic top line potential with great intangibles).

I can see him breaking both ways. It'd be fantastic to have a blood and guts ppg guy who sets the tone for the team, but it'd kinda suck to walk away with a 40 point winger, even if he tries really hard and can complement any line.

As others have said, I guess it's the same for everyone outside of the top 4. Everyone else has their obvious warts and downsides.

On the physical side, it’s important to know what we’re getting in the NHL. It’s possibly a scrappy, blood & guts player, perhaps a pest. It’s absolutely not a power forward.

 

[NekkiChiconey]

It seems there are 2 schools of thought about Leonard. Some seem to think he's a lunch pail guy with enough talent to produce some offense (so hard working guy with relatively limited upside). Others seem to think he's a talented offensive guy with a lunch pail mentality (so legit realistic top line potential with great intangibles).

I can see him breaking both ways. It'd be fantastic to have a blood and guts ppg guy who sets the tone for the team, but it'd kinda suck to walk away with a 40 point winger, even if he tries really hard and can complement any line.

As others have said, I guess it's the same for everyone outside of the top 4. Everyone else has their obvious warts and downsides.

I think two things are true about the general perception of Leonard:

1. He's more skilled than people give him credit for.
2. He's less relentless/intense/imposing than people give him credit for.

Essentially, I'm saying the thruth is somewhere in the middle. He's skilled enough to put up points up and down the lineup, and probably ends up as a realistic 3rd or 4th best forward on a contender. He'll be strong on the forecheck and retrievals, but I don't think he'll "scare" teams with his size or physical play.

 

[le_sean]

I disagree, and scouts on Bob McKenzie's list too. They have Smith over Carlsson. Smith has a better offensive potential also IMO.

Defensive play can be learned. Offensive talent less so. Both are prospect of similar strenght at this stage of their development IMO. Biggest difference is size.

I don’t think the defensive game is as easy to learn as people make it seem. The problem with Smith isn’t just being incapable of playing of defensively, it’s a complete unwillingness. And if you get drafted Top 5 based on your offensive talent alone, what is the impetus for you to learn? You got this far only playing offence, just continue doing that. At some point you either have it or you don’t. Development for a player taken this high is refining aspects of their game, not completely reforming the player.

 

[le_sean]

It seems there are 2 schools of thought about Leonard. Some seem to think he's a lunch pail guy with enough talent to produce some offense (so hard working guy with relatively limited upside). Others seem to think he's a talented offensive guy with a lunch pail mentality (so legit realistic top line potential with great intangibles).

I can see him breaking both ways. It'd be fantastic to have a blood and guts ppg guy who sets the tone for the team, but it'd kinda suck to walk away with a 40 point winger, even if he tries really hard and can complement any line.

As others have said, I guess it's the same for everyone outside of the top 4. Everyone else has their obvious warts and downsides.

40 point winger isn’t happening with Leonard. I mean Gallagher has had multiple 30+ goal seasons and has been 60+ point pace a couple of times. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere in talent.

 

[bmore236]

For goaltender, what about Thomas Milic since was excellent at the World juniors and has a great save percentage. Anyone has seen viewing of him during the playoffs.

 

[tooji]

Leonard is build strong.

6’ 192 lbs at 18 is not small in my book

He’s like romanov, he plays bigger than he actually is

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He’s like romanov, he plays bigger than he actually is

Harder to do in the NHL, just saying…

To me, the top 6 players in this draft are obvious and I’ll be happy with any of

Bedard
Fantilli
Carlsson
Michkov
Dvorsky
Smith

After these 6 there’s a drop off to an absolutely massive tier that could shuffle its way in a million different orders.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I don’t think the defensive game is as easy to learn as people make it seem. The problem with Smith isn’t just being incapable of playing of defensively, it’s a complete unwillingness. And if you get drafted Top 5 based on your offensive talent alone, what is the impetus for you to learn? You got this far only playing offence, just continue doing that. At some point you either have it or you don’t. Development for a player taken this high is refining aspects of their game, not completely reforming the player.

I disagree. He's not unwilling at all, in fact, I've always seen him come back and give an effort in games that mattered. He was not a defensive liability or no show at all during the u18s, nor during their match ups against NCAA teams.

He executed their game plan and was looking for offense first. That's a common theme at the NTDP, they're encouraged to do that.

Smith just defends with his stick and relies on anticipation and stealing pucks vs getting gritty and physical down low.

He can and will do enough relative to the offense he provides. It's certainly not a reason to pass on him for lesser offensively capable players. Not everyone needs to be a two way stud.

 

[ReHabs]

I don’t think the defensive game is as easy to learn as people make it seem. The problem with Smith isn’t just being incapable of playing of defensively, it’s a complete unwillingness. And if you get drafted Top 5 based on your offensive talent alone, what is the impetus for you to learn? You got this far only playing offence, just continue doing that. At some point you either have it or you don’t. Development for a player taken this high is refining aspects of their game, not completely reforming the player.

He must be damn talented then, no? Would be worth it to not draft a pragmatic player who’s Uber skilled for once, no?

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Harder to do in the NHL, just saying…

To me, the top 6 players in this draft are obvious and I’ll be happy with any of

Bedard
Fantilli
Carlsson
Michkov
Dvorsky
Smith

After these 6 there’s a drop off to an absolutely massive tier that could shuffle its way in a million different orders.

Yea theres no way Benson isnt on the same tier has Dvorsky and Smith

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yea theres no way Benson isnt on the same tier has Dvorsky and Smith

Smith is a tier higher. He's the same tier as Dvorsky, though Dvorsky will win out on the Habs list.

 

[KevSkillz4]

I think some people underrated the talent of Ryan Leonard. He have talent to put 70 points ++ per season in NHL. I think people will surprise be his offensive talent. Fun to watch!

 

[schwang26]

Not to go too far offtopic, but Montembault sucks.

One is Montembault, one is prime André "redlight" Racicot, who played at a time where goal per game was way higher in the NHL.

View attachment 710313View attachment 710314

How many last place or 5th last place teams with 5 rookie defencemen did Racicot play on again? Did his team set any records for man games lost? Refresh my memory.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think some people underrated the talent of Ryan Leonard. He have talent to put 70 points ++ per season in NHL. I think people will surprise be his offensive talent. Fun to watch!

He has scored some doozies this year, that's for sure.

 

[Michoulicious]

How many last place or 5th last place teams with 5 rookie defencemen did Racicot play on again? Did his team set any records for man games lost? Refresh my memory.

Again, maybe not the best thread to discuss this, but Montembeault NEVER has been a dominant goalie, ever, at any level.

He had ONE season with a save pct over 0,910 EVER.



But yeah, he might become a dominant NHL goalie now at 26? Everything is possible. I just think it's highly unlikely. Which is good news since I want this team to suck again for a year before turning it around, and he has a year left. Just not extend him for big bucks/term. He's not the guy you win with.

Perfect goalie for losing, he takes it smiling like a champ. Good guy, good attitude to keep the mood light. I like him, I just don't see a good goalie. Just barely replacement level.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I think some people underrated the talent of Ryan Leonard. He have talent to put 70 points ++ per season in NHL. I think people will surprise be his offensive talent. Fun to watch!

A guy like Palat ( who's a pretty good comparable style wise IMO) has had a few 50+ points seasons over the years. It all depends on who you put him with, he can match more toolsy players quite well.

 

[le_sean]

A guy like Palat ( who's a pretty good comparable style wise IMO) has had a few 50+ points seasons over the years. It all depends on who you put him with, he can match more toolsy players quite well.

Palat has a career high of 23 goals which he scored almost 10 years ago. I would venture to say that 23 goals would be a real down year for Leonard in the NHL. But I get what you mean that Palat is the straw that stirs the drink on his line, but I think Leonard can be a go-to player. He can be a pre-Chara hit Pacioretty.