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HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

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dackelljuneaubulis02

dackelljuneaubulis02

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Skip Bayless said:
I think we throw around the terms low and high hockey IQ too loosely when evaluating players.

Young players often get caught puck watching and reacting and are deemed to be low IQ when as a matter of fact, it's just lack of experience. This is why not skipping levels is so important.

Some players have strong anticipation skills in the defensive end, but poor offensive awareness and vice versa. Yet they're deemed low/high IQ.
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It’s such a nebulous concept
 
Vachon23

Vachon23

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WeThreeKings said:
When we win Bedard, would that change anyone's approach to the draft?
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Not for the draft, but it would change my approach of the offseason. I would try to get better earlier

The Great Weal said:
We are gonna draft Fantilli.

Slaf-Fantilli-Roy as the top line in Laval next year :)
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If we draft Fantilli, he's gonna be in the NHL next year
 
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ReHabs

ReHabs

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dackelljuneaubulis02 said:
It’s such a nebulous concept
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You know it when you see it. Suzuki has it in spades, you saw it from pretty much the moment he was situated in the NHL. Slafkovsky does not have it.

It shouldn't be so hard to understand as a concept -- it's part of a player's toolkit. If he makes the wrong decision multiple times in a game, it's kinda hard to miss it. If he makes the right decisions or plays, it's equally easy to notice.
 
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NotProkofievian

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ReHabs said:
You know it when you see it. Suzuki has it in spades, you saw it from pretty much the moment he was situated in the NHL. Slafkovsky does not have it.

It shouldn't be so hard to understand as a concept -- it's part of a player's toolkit. If he makes the wrong decision multiple times in a game, it's kinda hard to miss it. If he makes the right decisions or plays, it's equally easy to notice.
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It just gets tied up with people's idea of a good player or a bad player, so they get touchy about it. How it normally goes, good players are the ones with good hockey IQ, and bad players are the ones with bad hockey IQ. That's just not true though. It's just a trait like any other. It can be bad enough to break a player, or good enough to make a player.

There are smarter players in Europe than Josh Anderson. Players who don't have and never had a chance at the NHL, whereas Josh has had a pretty good career. Hockey isn't chess.
 
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ReHabs

ReHabs

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NotProkofievian said:
It just gets tied up with people's idea of a good player or a bad player, so they get touchy about it. How it normally goes, good players are the ones with good hockey IQ, and bad players are the ones with bad hockey IQ. That's just not true though. It's just a trait like any other. It can be bad enough to break a player, or good enough to make a player.

There are smarter players in Europe than Josh Anderson. Players who don't have and never had a chance at the NHL, whereas Josh has had a pretty good career. Hockey isn't chess.
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As our Western societies further develop into service and virtual sector work (and outsource and abstract away from physical labour), we, as a society, tend to over-value intelligence. Additionally, some Bad People use the concept of IQ in an improper and incorrect way which only further stigmatizes otherwise valid criticisms one could have against hockey players.

Your comment about Josh Anderson is perfectly said -- he is more successful than many other players and more valuable to the success of hockey team but he's also dumb as rocks in terms of Hockey IQ and constantly/consistently makes the wrong play. Andrei Kostitsyn was another player who didn't know how to make the right play. It doesn't mean either player is worthless, not at all. Andrei Markov had much higher hockey IQ than PK Subban but it would be difficult to say that Markov was clearly better than Subban (and anyone saying so doesn't remember how dominant Subban was in his peak). It's just one aspect of a player.

A valuable aspect, sure, but so is skating, strength, balance, puck/stick skills, etc.
 
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WeThreeKings

WeThreeKings

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NotProkofievian said:
It just gets tied up with people's idea of a good player or a bad player, so they get touchy about it. How it normally goes, good players are the ones with good hockey IQ, and bad players are the ones with bad hockey IQ. That's just not true though. It's just a trait like any other. It can be bad enough to break a player, or good enough to make a player.

There are smarter players in Europe than Josh Anderson. Players who don't have and never had a chance at the NHL, whereas Josh has had a pretty good career. Hockey isn't chess.
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In some way's hockey is chess.
 
Habs Icing

Habs Icing

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I have to admit I haven't seen many of the prospects but the little I saw of Chantilly Lace did not impress me. I saw all his games at the junior championships. Same goes for Uncle Leo. Maybe they just had a lousy handful of games.

I would pick Michkov if we land in the 2nd spot.

Also I think it's pretty dumb for the Habs management to leak they're not selecting Michkov. Why reveal what you're thinking. If it's a decoy. Then it's briiliant.
 
Vachon23

Vachon23

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Habs Icing said:
I have to admit I haven't seen many of the prospects but the little I saw of Chantilly Lace did not impress me. I saw all his games at the junior championships. Same goes for Uncle Leo. Maybe they just had a lousy handful of games.

I would pick Michkov if we land in the 2nd spot.

Also I think it's pretty dumb for the Habs management to leak they're not selecting Michkov. Why reveal what you're thinking. If it's a decoy. Then it's briiliant.
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You don't win the Hobey Baker at 18 in your draft year if your not special. That's talk way more how good he is then his play at the WJC. Remember Nathan MacKinnon performance at the WJC ? Wasn't good either
 
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NotProkofievian

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ReHabs said:
As our Western societies further develop into service and virtual sector work (and outsource and abstract away from physical labour), we, as a society, tend to over-value intelligence. Additionally, some Bad People use the concept of IQ in an improper and incorrect way which only further stigmatizes otherwise valid criticisms one could have against hockey players.

Your comment about Josh Anderson is perfectly said -- he is more successful than many other players and more valuable to the success of hockey team but he's also dumb as rocks in terms of Hockey IQ and constantly/consistently makes the wrong play. Andrei Kostitsyn was another player who didn't know how to make the right play. It doesn't mean either player is worthless, not at all. Andrei Markov had much higher hockey IQ than PK Subban but it would be difficult to say that Markov was clearly better than Subban (and anyone saying so doesn't remember how dominant Subban was in his peak). It's just one aspect of a player.

A valuable aspect, sure, but so is skating, strength, balance, puck/stick skills, etc.
Click to expand...

In this draft, Halttunen is not bright, or at least he's never shown himself to be. But he still has a shot at being a good NHL player, and he'll probably be the first Finn off the board this year. Very few guys have the combination of size, skating, and shot that he has.
 
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NekkiChiconey

NekkiChiconey

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WeThreeKings said:
When we win Bedard, would that change anyone's approach to the draft?
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I would probably go the opposite route of what's been said by other posters: knowing Bedard slots into the top-6 right away and knowing the core that's already in place, I'd try to identify players who could fulfill unique-ish roles within the team 5 years down the line, profiles that we do not currently have. I would probably target a RHD and a goalie in the last 1st or early 2nd, then I would look for players who could complement our smaller skilled guys: potential 3rd liners with size and speed that could play up and down the lineup and are valuable albeit less sexy picks.

I would obviously put more emphasis on the short term so I might trade some picks or prospects to surround my young core, ideally with vets who have 3 or less years remaining on their current deal (same goes for FA). I might even use some of the later picks to get rid of bad contracts.

Finally, in the (very real) event that we're picking 1st, I'm NOT trading for PLD, but I'd use the assets for some other trade of lesser magnitude... If we were to draft Michkov though, it's a different story.
 
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