HF Habs: 2023 HF Habs Prospect final rankings

[Miller Time]

That doesn't say much. It might mean we'll suck for the next 10 years; therefore, we'll keep rotating bad players in the NHL teams (look at how many players are used by worst tanking teams vs. the top NHL teams).

There's just 1 first-rounder in that group who is not going stellar right now, let's face it (I'm not saying Mesar can't turn it around).
In our 4x 2nd rounders. Kidney/Tuch seems like likely future busts to me. Beck and Hein are promising.
Our other promising players, Farrell and Roy, look like middle 6 forwards; we will see how they develop.

Yes, of course, Slafkovski, Dach and Newhook, we'll see if they can settle into franchise-pushing roles, an expectation that comes with the value of the draft assets we exchanged for them.

For the record, we are 2 years into this rebuild without anything sure added at forward.

It says that it's a relatively strong group of prospect forwards.

Not sure how you would go about classifying quality of prospect pools. I think NHL games played is one valuable metric.
NHL points, goals, playoff games... All other data points id factor in.

Either way, I think this group is top tier. It'll take 5-10 years to assess, in the meantime it's all forecasting.

Cup winners have a few elite players, and quality depth. This pool is higher on the depth than the elite potential, to be sure. No argument there.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Our best young forwards are on the Habs more or less.

Heineman, Roy, Ferrell and Beck aren’t super exciting but they do have solid upside.

Love Heineman. I think he’ll surprise. He might be my fave of the bunch. Doesn’t likely have Roy’s upside but you can’t help but feel like he could be a more effective Anderson type though he doesn’t quite have Josh’s physical tools.

Roy’s skating is suspect but the offensive upside is pretty damn big.

Ferell we’ll see he might be a career AHLer but if there’s more room to improve he’s got good tools. He might just not be big and/or fast enough.

Beck was up and down but I like his game a lot.

It’s pretty meh by themselves (unless they all hit) but in conjunction with who we have on the team, I think it’s as good as a forward group as we’ve had in over 20 years imo.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

It says that it's a relatively strong group of prospect forwards.

Not sure how you would go about classifying quality of prospect pools. I think NHL games played is one valuable metric.
NHL points, goals, playoff games... All other data points id factor in.

Either way, I think this group is top tier. It'll take 5-10 years to assess, in the meantime it's all forecasting.

Cup winners have a few elite players, and quality depth. This pool is higher on the depth than the elite potential, to be sure. No argument there.

If Suzuki and Caufield hit like I think they can. That’s a good start. Along with Slaf and Dach. Those 4 hit and hit big like they very well can, that’s an impressive core right there.

After that I feel like we have the depth to fill out the rest of the top 9.

If our D was middling then yeah not be quite so salivating. But the fact we have a very strong D pool with loads of depth and legit high end upside, I don’t know why many seem to be so down on what we have.

Like subtracting Reinbacher for Michkov is really that much a drastic face lift. I personally think it wouldn’t be as good. But acting like it’s meltdown worthy is just odd.

Michkov just has question marks on top of question marks and then we still have this huge gaping hole on the right side of that top pairing.

 

[JianYang]

If Suzuki and Caufield hit like I think they can. That’s a good start. Along with Slaf and Dach. Those 4 hit and hit big like they very well can, that’s an impressive core right there.

After that I feel like we have the depth to fill out the rest of the top 9.

If our D was middling then yeah not be quite so salivating. But the fact we have a very strong D pool with loads of depth and legit high end upside, I don’t know why many seem to be so down on what we have.

Like subtracting Reinbacher for Michkov is really that much a drastic face lift. I personally think it wouldn’t be as good. But acting like it’s meltdown worthy is just odd.

Michkov just has question marks on top of question marks and then we still have this huge gaping hole on the right side of that top pairing.

To be a fly on the wall and listen in to the michkov conversations.

Did michkov flex his muscle and paint a different picture to the flyer organization relative to the others?

Did the Habs legitimately believe he was not BPA at #5?

Wouldn't the Flyers had picked him if they had a top 5 pick?

We will probably find answers to at least some of these questions down the road but for now, we are just left to speculate.

Anyways, now we are left to debate about what Hughes means when he says "2D" lol.

 

[ReHabs]

Final by position

Left Wing​	Centre​	Right Wing​
(7) Heineman (RW)​	(6) Beck​	(4) Roy​
(8) Farrell (C)​	(12) Kidney​	(9) Mesar​
(17) Tuch​	(14) Kapanen​	(21) Simoneau​
(24) Guindon (C)​	(19) Rohrer (RW)​	(27) Legare​
(25) Xhekaj​	(20) Davidson​	(42) Gordin (C)​
(37) Harris​	(23) Mysak (LW)​	​
(40) Pitlick​	(29) Biondi​	​
​	(30) Eriksson​	​
​	(31) Condotta (LW)​	​
​	(36) Smilanic​	​
​	(44) Smith (RW)​	​
​	​	​
Left Defense​	Right Defense​	Goaltender​
(1) Hutson​	(2) Reinbacher​	(10) Dobes​
(5) Engstrom​	(3) Mailloux​	(11) Fowler​
(13) Struble​	(18) Konyushkov​	(16) Primeau​
(15) Trudeau​	(35) Tourigny​	(26) Miller​
(22) Norlinder​	(43) Sobolev​	(28) Volokhin​
(32) Mittelstadt​	​	(38) Croteau​
(33) Nurmi​	​	(41) Vrbetic​
(34) Beaudin​	​	​
(39) Kostenko​	​	​

We needed better forward prospects when Hughes was hired and we still need better forward prospects today. Nothing has changed on that front. Owen Beck is our best C prospect for heaven's sake.

 

[ReHabs]

Heineman, Roy, Ferrell and Beck aren’t super exciting but they do have solid upside.

Well, we need exciting prospects with exciting upside. That's the most reliable way you can secure exciting NHL players.

I have some silly hopes places on J. Roy but in general it doesn't seem like we can expect to have any top6 skilled forwards coming up to stay with the big club. Roy is the closest prospect we have but maybe after a whole season in the AHL and some flirting with NHL game time Farrell will show he can overcome his size deficiency.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Well, we need exciting prospects with exciting upside. That's the most reliable way you can secure exciting NHL players.

I have some silly hopes places on J. Roy but in general it doesn't seem like we can expect to have any top6 skilled forwards coming up to stay with the big club. Roy is the closest prospect we have but maybe after a whole season in the AHL and some flirting with NHL game time Farrell will show he can overcome his size deficiency.

Absolutely. I’d love another lottery finish and get a high end centre. I’d go C before wing besides the inherent value of them.

I’m only making the argument it COULD be complete as is. It’s a bit of devil’s advocate because very few people think we don’t have what it takes up front.

I should make myself clear that I believe it could very well come up short for Cup purposes. I just think if CC, Slaf, Suzuki and Dach hit, then I think we’re in tremendous shape. And it’s only a matter of filling out the rest of the roster which we could do internally

 

[ReHabs]

Absolutely. I’d love another lottery finish and get a high end centre. I’d go C before wing besides the inherent value of them.

I’m only making the argument it COULD be complete as is. It’s a bit of devil’s advocate because very few people think we don’t have what it takes up front.

I should make myself clear that I believe it could very well come up short for Cup purposes. I just think if CC, Slaf, Suzuki and Dach hit, then I think we’re in tremendous shape. And it’s only a matter of filling out the rest of the roster which we could do internally

I think those four players you named have to be taken for granted and then we need more supplementary skilled forward prospects. It is unlikely all four of CC, Slaf, Suzuki, and Dach will be with the Habs during the future deep playoff run and then remain with the Habs for playoff runs after that. Teams break up, players get traded, players leave, players get injured and their careers derailed, etc. From now until that point, it would be nice to have drafted or acquired some promising 18 and 19 year old prospects so they would be on the cusp of a pro contract when the Habs core is meant to be competitive.

We need a pool of talented forward prospect to allow the team to manoeuvre the physical reality of this very physical sport both today and going forward. It's as important as having free cap space for potential UFAs -- arguably it's more important because a skilled forward prospect (who isn't physically deficient in skating or size like our Roy and Farrell) are worth a ton both to their rights owner on the trade market.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Awards:
AINEC Award: 2. David Reinbacher (84.8%)
Tough Choice Award: 25. Florian Xhekaj, 23.1%
Biggest Riser: 5. Adam Engstrom, 42.8% (+21)
Biggest Faller: 36. Ty Smilanic, 37.5% (-8)/39. Dmitri Kostenko, 45.2% (-8)
Undrafted Star: 31. Lucas Condotta
Late round gem: 4. Joshua Roy (5th round)
Treb's choice most overrated prospect: 23. Jan Mysak HM: 3. Logan Mailloux
Treb's choice most underrated prospect: 33. Petteri Nurmi HM: 26. Quentin Miller
Mike Cichy Trophy: Jack Smith

In my opinion, the most underrated prospect on this list is the largely unheralded, Cedric Guindon. While I was following the progress of Mailloux and Beck last season I had the opportunity of watching Guindon play on multiple occasions. This kid has NHL written all over him and will play in the NHL, and play well, before many of the higher rank players on this list.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like our D depth, I like our G depth after this draft. Forwards however...sheesh, I'm not excited.

All of our top forwards are already in the NHL. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf. Only one top D is in the NHL. Guhle. I really like Xhekaj but he's more 2nd tier

I think Roy is going to be good. I've seen the Toffoli comparison but I have that as his base. I have Roy somewhere in-between Toffoli and Perry. I'm a little higher on him than others.

Beck to me will have similar value as Xhekaj on D. 2nd tier type player but does a lot of good things beyond points.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Meh.

I'd be surprised if our non- NHL forward prospect group is outside of the top tier league-wide... And of those with better pools, I'd bet that our <25 NHL group is better than most.

Relative to the league, our forward prospect group is quite strong.

There is no way to diminish it. Habs had had one of the highest draft powers over a span of drafts now and the development resumes are very noticeable. There will of course be disappointment but we are going to generate a lot of NHL talent. Maybe some teams have an edge on the top tier talent but not many teams do in that area either.

Anybody trying to diminish this group is being pessimistic and scared to have hope. Hope comes from confidence and we should have confidence in this group.

We have both quality and quantity. Some fans trying to say other teams have that as well don't know what they are talking about. Nobody can touch us when you factor both Quality/Quantity.

 

[SOLR]

There is no way to diminish it. Habs had had one of the highest draft powers over a span of drafts now and the development resumes are very noticeable. There will of course be disappointment but we are going to generate a lot of NHL talent. Maybe some teams have an edge on the top tier talent but not many teams do in that area either.

Anybody trying to diminish this group is being pessimistic and scared to have hope. Hope comes from confidence and we should have confidence in this group.

We have both quality and quantity. Some fans trying to say other teams have that as well don't know what they are talking about. Nobody can touch us when you factor both Quality/Quantity.

lol get real - to be clear, I'm talking about forward prospects.

What the best teams are looking like:

Coyotes' Top 10 Prospects for 2023-24 - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Coyotes have built of the best prospect pools in the NHL, from Logan Cooley to Dmitri Simashev, there's talent everywhere.

thehockeywriters.com

https://thehockeynews.com/news/2023-24-prospect-pool-overview-buffalo-sabres

St. Louis Blues Top 10 Prospects for 2023-24

And this is a middle-of-the-pack team:

The Calgary Flames' top 10 prospects going into 2023–24 - The Win Column

Assessing the top 10 Calgary Flames prospects heading into the 2023–24 hockey season including their latest draft picks.

thewincolumn.ca

I'm not pessimistic; I'm simply a realist. There is a lot more work to be done.

 

[Treb]

There is no way to diminish it. Habs had had one of the highest draft powers over a span of drafts now and the development resumes are very noticeable. There will of course be disappointment but we are going to generate a lot of NHL talent. Maybe some teams have an edge on the top tier talent but not many teams do in that area either.

Anybody trying to diminish this group is being pessimistic and scared to have hope. Hope comes from confidence and we should have confidence in this group.

We have both quality and quantity. Some fans trying to say other teams have that as well don't know what they are talking about. Nobody can touch us when you factor both Quality/Quantity.

Our D pool is very strong.

Our fwd pool is very weak.

Our goalie pool is a question mark.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Pronman ranks Montreal 6th in U23 rankings.

 

[Miller Time]

lol get real - to be clear, I'm talking about forward prospects.

What the best teams are looking like:

Coyotes' Top 10 Prospects for 2023-24 - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Coyotes have built of the best prospect pools in the NHL, from Logan Cooley to Dmitri Simashev, there's talent everywhere.

thehockeywriters.com

https://thehockeynews.com/news/2023-24-prospect-pool-overview-buffalo-sabres

St. Louis Blues Top 10 Prospects for 2023-24

And this is a middle-of-the-pack team:

The Calgary Flames' top 10 prospects going into 2023–24 - The Win Column

Assessing the top 10 Calgary Flames prospects heading into the 2023–24 hockey season including their latest draft picks.

thewincolumn.ca

I'm not pessimistic; I'm simply a realist. There is a lot more work to be done.

If you think that the flames have a better forward prospect group than we do, that explains a lot. We'll see how that assessment plays out over the next decade.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Pronman listed the Habs as having the 6th best prospect pool in the NHL among U-23 players.

Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 6 Canadiens have a very deep system

Ranking the top prospects and under-23 players in the organization. Plus, what to expect of every player.

theathletic.com

He lists:
1. Caufield
2. Slaf
3. Reinbacher
4. Dach
5. Guhle
6. Newhook
7. Barron
8. Hutson
9. Beck
10. Roy
11. Farrell
12. Xhekaj
13. Mysak
14. Kidney
15. Heineman
16. Trudeau
17. Mesar
18. Fowler

Then he lists players who migh have a chance to play in the NHL:

- Croteau
- Dobes
- Engstrom
- Kapanen
- Mailloux
- Tourigny
- Rohrer


In Mailloux's case, he obviously wrote this before the report came out that he's been cleared to play. Because he mentions that the reason he doesn't have him in the sure-fire NHL'ers is because he hasn't gotten the all clear.

 

[SOLR]

If you think that the flames have a better forward prospect group than we do, that explains a lot. We'll see how that assessment plays out over the next decade.

Again, I'm talking about prospects. Slafkovski, etc. are graduated.

Pelletier and Corronato are top 6 players that I see favourably vs. Mesar. Top 6 players are harder to acquire than players like Beck.

I'm not sure what Roy is, he's the wildcard that could swing this our side.

Pronman ranks Montreal 6th in U23 rankings.

Overall and under 23, yeah I can see that.

 

[Miller Time]

Again, I'm talking about prospects. Slafkovski, etc. are graduated.

Pelletier and Corronato are top 6 players that I see favourably vs. Mesar. Top 6 players are harder to acquire than players like Beck.

I'm not sure what Roy is, he's the wildcard that could swing this our side.



Overall and under 23, yeah I can see that.

Yes, we are talking about non-nhl prospects, that was well established.

Roy, Heineman & Farrell are all on par with Pelletier, Coronato & Honzek as far as NHL potential imo. Pelletier or Coronato may have the highest perceived ceiling, but that's heavily draft spot influenced, debatable & marginally so at best.

Beck is as good, if not a better prospect than Zary.


Mesar, Kapanen, Kidney, Rohrer & Tuch are all as good or better prospects than any of the other flames forward prospects as far as future NHL potential.

And while I fully understand & acknowledge that we are talking "prospects", the reality is that Pelletier is the same age as Dach, Caufield & Newhook, and Slaf is only 5 months older than Honzek... then add Suzuki, RHP & Ylonen.
Meanwhile Dube is the flames only established forward under 25.... the somewhat arbitrary line of "prospect" is less relevant than age & contract status if we considering organization futures.

But to reiterate, the Habs prospect pool at forward is better, imo, than the flames.
So if you are accurate in assessing the Flames as a middle tier forward prospect group, that reinforces my assessment that the Habs group sits somewhere in the top tier... Higher still if we look at U25 or U23.

 

[SOLR]

Yes, we are talking about non-nhl prospects, that was well established.

Roy, Heineman & Farrell are all on par with Pelletier, Coronato & Honzek as far as NHL potential imo. Pelletier or Coronato may have the highest perceived ceiling, but that's heavily draft spot influenced, debatable & marginally so at best.

Beck is as good, if not a better prospect than Zary.


Mesar, Kapanen, Kidney, Rohrer & Tuch are all as good or better prospects than any of the other flames forward prospects as far as future NHL potential.

And while I fully understand & acknowledge that we are talking "prospects", the reality is that Pelletier is the same age as Dach, Caufield & Newhook, and Slaf is only 5 months older than Honzek... then add Suzuki, RHP & Ylonen.
Meanwhile Dube is the flames only established forward under 25.... the somewhat arbitrary line of "prospect" is less relevant than age & contract status if we considering organization futures.

But to reiterate, the Habs prospect pool at forward is better, imo, than the flames.
So if you are accurate in assessing the Flames as a middle tier forward prospect group, that reinforces my assessment that the Habs group sits somewhere in the top tier... Higher still if we look at U25 or U23.

I think where we disagree fundamentally is around Kidney, Kapanen and Tuch, I have them as no-NHL impact already. Where I see Coronato and Pelletier certainly 1 level of risk below Roy, Farrell and Heineman because they are both on the verge of making the team out of training camp and on the first 3 lines, with a pretty high certainty. None of the Habs players are there. Hein might be close I guess, but he's a 2nd half of the season guy maybe.

I don't think Kidney will solve his physical issues. I don't think Kapanen will pass the AHL test. Tuch might be a 4th liner, but he's more likely to be in the AHL for a long time as he has not shown the offence required to be very confident.

Rohrer and Mesar, we'll see what they do during the year.

See the habs quantity is extremely low probability.

 

[EveryDay]

Pronman listed the Habs as having the 6th best prospect pool in the NHL among U-23 players.

Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 6 Canadiens have a very deep system

Ranking the top prospects and under-23 players in the organization. Plus, what to expect of every player.

theathletic.com

He lists:
1. Caufield
2. Slaf
3. Reinbacher
4. Dach
5. Guhle
6. Newhook
7. Barron
8. Hutson
9. Beck
10. Roy
11. Farrell
12. Xhekaj
13. Mysak
14. Kidney
15. Heineman
16. Trudeau
17. Mesar
18. Fowler

Then he lists players who migh have a chance to play in the NHL:

- Croteau
- Dobes
- Engstrom
- Kapanen
- Mailloux
- Tourigny
- Rohrer


In Mailloux's case, he obviously wrote this before the report came out that he's been cleared to play. Because he mentions that the reason he doesn't have him in the sure-fire NHL'ers is because he hasn't gotten the all clear.

Mysak & Kidney ahead of Engstrom and Mailloux? LOL

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Yeah Engstrom is quite the omission

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah Engstrom is quite the omission

To be fair to Pronman, he writes a small paragraph for each prospect to explain why he lists them where he lists them. I only wrote the names. He adds more context in his article.

_______________________________________


Eriksson with an assist as Sweden tied the game 1-1 in the final minute of the 1st period. They're tied 1-1 with Switzerland after 1.

 

[Miller Time]

I think where we disagree fundamentally is around Kidney, Kapanen and Tuch, I have them as no-NHL impact already. Where I see Coronato and Pelletier certainly 1 level of risk below Roy, Farrell and Heineman because they are both on the verge of making the team out of training camp and on the first 3 lines, with a pretty high certainty. None of the Habs players are there. Hein might be close I guess, but he's a 2nd half of the season guy maybe.

And therein lies the issue of excluding the similar aged players already in Habs lineup.

If you use Pelletier/Coronato making the flames roster this year as an indicator of their lower level of risk, it's important to factor in Dach/CC/Slaf, all of same age or younger... Put another way, neither Coronato nor Pelletier would likely make the Habs roster out of camp this year, and, 1-2 of Farrell, Roy & Heineman quite likely make the flames roster.

In any case, it is clear we have different assessments of the Habs non-nhl group. Time will tell who was closer.

I don't think Kidney will solve his physical issues. I don't think Kapanen will pass the AHL test. Tuch might be a 4th liner, but he's more likely to be in the AHL for a long time as he has not shown the offence required to be very confident.

Rohrer and Mesar, we'll see what they do during the year.

See the habs quantity is extremely low probability.

Now do the flames 4th-5th-6th best forward prospects....

Those 5 Habs are indeed far from locks to make the NHL. The flames forward prospects after their top 3-4, are even less likely to make it.

Heineman, Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Beck, Rohrer, Kapanen, Kidney, Tuch...

Pelletier, Coronato, Honzek, Zary, Schwindt, Ronni, Suniev, Stromgren...

That's the two pools we are comparing +/- a few other depth considerations.

What I know of these two groups, I'd easily take ours. Much better depth & high-end ceiling for the top few in either group are relatively similar (frankly, Roy & Mesar may well have the highest pure ceilings of the bunch)

 

[1909]

I agree that there is no potential superstars at forward positions in view. But 3 or 4 of them could become solid mid-sixers. Roy, Beck, Kapanen and maybe Heineman. I don't have high hopes for the rest. And this last draft which was supposed to be high quality for forwards, they went for D-men and goalies..... But we have to keep in mind that Habs have already Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Dach who are still young and got first line potential. We wll see what Newhook can bring now.

At least, we know the D-Corp is heading in the right direction in size and overall skills.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Our D pool is very strong.

Our fwd pool is very weak.

Our goalie pool is a question mark.

I am not a fan of drawing lines with youth in the NHL vs youth outside of the NHL. The point of evaluating youth is projecting it forward and the "graduation" shouldn't blind us from that.

Our forward "pool" has more maturity with Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf in the NHL.

Our D pool has some guys in the NHL and some guys coming. We all agree it's the strongest area.

I'm not worried about the goalies. We can't think that if we don't have a Price, we are screwed. That was in the past and we are more likely going to have to do the 3 year goalie recycle program. If our D ends up top 5 in the NHL which is very possible, the goalie won't be exposed. If our D was top 5 today, I'd have full confidence in Monty's progression and what he can do in the next 3 years. Problem is our team is not ready to compete for a cup so Monty's time with us will be transition years.