Prospect Info: 2023 Draft Thread (Yotes picking #6 & #12)

[Freddy Sjostrom]

Being small might not necessarily be an issue for individual players, but stacking small player on top of small player likely isn’t the best idea either in terms of roster building. If we have 3 or 4 guys like Benson/Michkov with Keller and Maccelli on the wing in our top 6, we likely aren’t going to have much success in the postseason. That team would still be fun to watch on most nights though.

Pretty much what Pronman and Peters said on a recent Athletic podcast. They said most teams are sensitive about this. He mentioned Montreal, would Michkov be wise to insert into top 6 with Nick and Cole? And then they said the same for AZ with Keller and Cooley. They said yes, Marchessault was Conn Smythe, but he was supported by heavier players.

 

[Half Clapper]

Being small might not necessarily be an issue for individual players, but stacking small player on top of small player likely isn’t the best idea either in terms of roster building. If we have 3 or 4 guys like Benson/Michkov with Keller and Maccelli on the wing in our top 6, we likely aren’t going to have much success in the postseason. That team would still be fun to watch on most nights though.

Hayton, Geekie, Mcbain, Crouse, Doan, Guenther, and Lutz are all over 6'0 tall. Plus good chance we'd draft another fairly big forward at #12. I think the team being small in our top 6 after drafting Benson is not accurate.

Keller 5'10 - Cooley 5'10 - Guenther 6'2
Benson 5'10 - Hayton 6'1 - Wood 6'4
Crouse 6'4 - Geekie 6'4 - Macelli 5'11
Lutz 6'2 - Mcbain 6'3 - Doan 6'1


That to me is not that small of a top 6. I also think these lines would mesh well. You got the playmaker in Keller / Benson. The chippy Center that does the dirty work in Cooley / Hayton. And to finish it off the shooter in Guenther / Wood.

Also, Benson measured in at the exact same height as Bedard. Is Bedard too small as well then?

 

[Jamieh]

Hayton, Geekie, Mcbain, Crouse, Doan, Guenther, and Lutz are all over 6'0 tall. Plus good chance we'd draft another fairly big forward at #12. I think the team being small in our top 6 after drafting Benson is not accurate.

Keller 5'10 - Cooley 5'10 - Guenther 6'2
Benson 5'10 - Hayton 6'1 - Wood 6'4
Crouse 6'4 - Geekie 6'4 - Macelli 5'11
Lutz 6'2 - Mcbain 6'3 - Doan 6'1


That to me is not that small of a top 6. I also think these lines would mesh well. You got the playmaker in Keller / Benson. The chippy Center that does the dirty work in Cooley / Hayton. And to finish it off the shooter in Guenther / Wood.

Also, Benson measured in at the exact same height as Bedard. Is Bedard too small as well then?

Half the top 6 suggested are 5'10, how is that not small? Of the 6 only one is actually big.

 

[Jagged Ice]

How pissed will the Caps be if Michkov is available at six and they know we aren't taking him. Do they gamble on the Flyers passing on him too or are they forced to trade with us? Michkov brings a lot of crazy scenarios to this draft. Bill could also hop on the phone with Yzerman for a quick chat.
I have zero interest in Reinbacher, even at 12, but I really hope one of Philly, Detroit or the Caps are hungry for the Russian and BA pursues that before running to the podium in that State & Liberty suit just to draft Reinbacher.
My preferred scenario is one of San Jose or Montreal take him and we land Leonard or Smith.

 

[Grimes]

I agree. But Benson probably won’t go before 9th and I’d say there’s a 50/50 shot he’s there at 12th for us and a 50/50 shot we pass on him anyway.

I will say, if we take Reinbacher 6th and Benson 12th that would be such a roller coaster of emotions for me. Haha. Id say Reinbacher is a reach at 6 but a steal at 12. Meanwhile Benson is a steal at 6th and unfathomable at 12th.


I think Philly would 100% take him at 7th.

Would love that Reinbacher+Benson scenario, as much as I don't want Reinbacher at 6. But that's a lot of IFs.

And agreed Philly will take Michkov and absolutely should if he falls to 7

Much like last year with Cooley. This scouting dept is probably already locked in. Like Shane Wright dropping to them last year and them not even flinching.
Leonard, Reinbacher, Dvorsky at 6 in some order...unless Smith or Leonard fall for some bizarre reason.
I could see us dropping one or two spots if Michkov is there at 6 however and still taking the guy they want.

100% great point and I agree. Loved hearing Plandowski mention the slew of defensemen in next year's draft. I hope the cluster of forwards after Smith is Dvorsky/Leonard/Benson and they aren't budging from that.

Pretty much what Pronman and Peters said on a recent Athletic podcast. They said most teams are sensitive about this. He mentioned Montreal, would Michkov be wise to insert into top 6 with Nick and Cole? And then they said the same for AZ with Keller and Cooley. They said yes, Marchessault was Conn Smythe, but he was supported by heavier players.

Pretty much why I don't care about drafting Benson or Michkov. There's easier ways to support smaller players with a ton of skill rather than finding players with a ton of skill.

 

[Half Clapper]

Half the top 6 suggested are 5'10, how is that not small? Of the 6 only one is actually big.

Hayton is 6'1 210. If wood were to pan out at 6'4 he would be over 210 lbs. Guenther will keep filling out and he will play at close to 200 lbs as well. Cooley is 5'10 but plays a lot bigger than his height, same with Benson. Plus you know a guy named Johnny marchessault? Won a conne smythe this year. Well he is 5'9...

That top 6 will do fine in the playoffs. The bottom 6 will be all big and same with the back end. You want skilled elite guys in your top 6. Plus you can always insert Crouse or Geekie in the top 6 too. Both big boys

 

[Jamieh]

Hayton is 6'1 210. If wood were to pan out at 6'4 he would be over 210 lbs. Guenther will keep filling out and he will play at close to 200 lbs as well. Cooley is 5'10 but plays a lot bigger than his height, same with Benson. Plus you know a guy named Johnny marchessault? Won a conne smythe this year. Well he is 5'9...

That top 6 will do fine in the playoffs. The bottom 6 will be all big and same with the back end. You want skilled elite guys in your top 6.

You want a list of the sub 6' foot good players who crapped out in the playoffs? It's a little bigger than the one guy who excelled. I'm not saying they can't succeed, I'm just saying your suggested lineup top 6 is small. You said it wasn't.

 

[rt]

Cooley is 5’11

 

[Half Clapper]

You want a list of the sub 6' foot good players who crapped out in the playoffs? It's a little bigger than the one guy who excelled. I'm not saying they can't succeed, I'm just saying your suggested lineup top 6 is small. You said it wasn't.

How is it too small? lol. three 5'10 players and three guys over 6'. Have you watched Cooley play even? I don't even consider him small based on his reach.

EDIT: Cooley is apparently 5'11 and I do not consider him small.

 

[rt]

I don’t think Cooley will be a small NHL player. I think he’s like Nazem Kadri kinda (I don’t mean talent, I mean size and demeanor).

 

[Jamieh]

How is it too small? lol. three 5'10 players and three guys over 6'. Have you watched Cooley play even? I don't even consider him small based on his reach.

EDIT: Cooley is apparently 5'11 and I do not consider him small.

How's it small? Average size of an NHL player is roughly 6'2 and 200 lbs. Half of your players don't make the average? In reality you answered your own question though when you said 3 players at 5' 10.

I don’t think Cooley will be a small NHL player. I think he’s like Nazem Kadri kinda (I don’t mean talent, I mean size and demeanor).

I really liked Kadri, that guy stood his ground for a guy not that big. But boy could he have a brain fart occasionally!!!!

 

[Half Clapper]

How's it small? Average size of an NHL player is roughly 6'2 and 200 lbs. Half of your players don't make the average? In reality you answered your own question though when you said 3 players at 5' 10.


I really liked Kadri, that guy stood his ground for a guy not that big. But boy could he have a brain fart occasionally!!!!

Ya thats average player. Now do average forward height. Also, two players that are 5'10. Cooley is 5'11.

 

[Jamieh]

Ya thats average player. Now do average forward height. Also, two players that are 5'10. Cooley is 5'11.

I'm not sure I have any understanding of how you are actually arguing that the top 6 you are suggesting isn't small?

No idea if accurate but first article on Google says just under 6'1 and 197 lbs. Your lineup us still small

Average Height and Weight of Hockey Forwards (NHL 2024)

I've been a Collegiate Sports Performance Coach for 20 years. One thing I always felt was effective was showing guys the heights and weights of players at their positions in the pros. It gave many

hortonbarbell.com

 

[Half Clapper]

I'm not sure I have any understanding of how you are actually arguing that the top 6 you are suggesting isn't small?

No idea if accurate but first article on Google says just under 6'1 and 197 lbs. Your lineup us still small

Average Height and Weight of Hockey Forwards (NHL 2024)

I've been a Collegiate Sports Performance Coach for 20 years. One thing I always felt was effective was showing guys the heights and weights of players at their positions in the pros. It gave many

hortonbarbell.com

I am not gonna account for weight, as that will change, but height averaged out with those six forwards is 183.6 cm, which is a hair over 6' tall. Smaller than average, but not by a lot based on you saying the average height is just under 6'1.

 

[Blueswin]

I think Michkov falls to us and we then make a trade to St Louis or for 2 of their 3 picks and Neighbors

you obviously don't know the Blues then.

 

[Prestigeworldwide]

When looking at Leonard. He is 5'11.75 inches(6ft). And 190+lbs. Thats a solid kid.



I think of leonard physically like Alex Romanov. He was listed at 5'11 and 185 back when he was drafted. Totally different players/position but physically both very strong.
I honestly expect Montreal taking Leonard at 5 which sucks but if he is there at 6 I think we are getting a Matt Tkachuk style player that would be an awesome pairing with Cooley.

 

[Half Clapper]

When looking at Leonard. He is 5'11.75 inches(6ft). And 190+lbs. Thats a solid kid.



I think of leonard physically like Alex Romanov. He was listed at 5'11 and 185 back when he was drafted. Totally different players/position but physically both very strong.
I honestly expect Montreal taking Leonard at 5 which sucks but if he is there at 6 I think we are getting a Matt Tkachuk style player that would be an awesome pairing with Cooley.

The yotes need good Canadian boys on the team. Canadians are winners. The Yotes need winners. Drafting Leonard will mean way too many Americans in the top 6 if you ask me

 

[Jamieh]

I am not gonna account for weight, as that will change, but height averaged out with those six forwards is 183.6 cm, which is a hair over 6' tall. Smaller than average, but not by a lot based on you saying the average height is just under 6'1.

You can't average the players to make a point. Each player is an individual and 3 individuals out of 6 at that height is a small lineup. Having one Chara and five 5' 9 D men is still a small D lineup despite averaging nearly 6 foot

 

[lanky]

I feel like Dvorsky is a pick that we can all get behind. No one's first choice but no one's last choice.

If it's anyone else F40 will be bickering.

 

[Half Clapper]

You can't average the players to make a point. Each player is an individual and 3 individuals out of 6 at that height is a small lineup. Having one Chara and five 5' 9 D men is still a small D lineup despite averaging nearly 6 foot

You act like these players are 5'6. 5'10 isn't even that small for a winger. Some of the best players in the world are 5'10 and under. That top 6 I listed would have no problem.

You remember when Tampa won back to back cups? Guess who their two best forwards were? Point and Kucherov. Are those guys big? I think they both were in the top 6 too...

 

[Mosby]

Draft for talent. Figure out size later.

I feel like Dvorsky is a pick that we can all get behind. No one's first choice but no one's last choice.

If it's anyone else F40 will be bickering.

Feels like the safe pick for sure. Limited offensive ceiling and not much flash. Reinbacher is the same, I’d say almost underwhelming especially with a high pick.

 

[Half Clapper]

Draft for talent. Figure out size later.



Feels like the safe pick for sure. Limited offensive ceiling and not much flash. Reinbacher is the same, I’d same almost underwhelming especially with a high pick.

Bedard and Benson are the same height. I do not think anybody would be saying hey lets draft fantilli over Bedard because Bedard is 5'10, and we need a guy who is at least 6'0 in our top 6.

Yeah, Bedard is a generational level talent, so its a tough comparison, but Benson would have went 1st overall in a few of the drafts over the last 10 years.

 

[Jamieh]

You act like these players are 5'6. 5'10 isn't even that small for a winger. Some of the best players in the world are 5'10 and under. That top 6 I listed would have no problem.

You remember when Tampa won back to back cups? Guess who their two best forwards were? Point and Kucherov. Are those guys big? I think they both were in the top 6 too...

You might have missed it but I didn't say they couldn't succeed, I simply said they are small. And those 2 lines are small.

 

[ck26]

You act like these players are 5'6. 5'10 isn't even that small for a winger. Some of the best players in the world are 5'10 and under. That top 6 I listed would have no problem.

You remember when Tampa won back to back cups? Guess who their two best forwards were? Point and Kucherov. Are those guys big? I think they both were in the top 6 too...

Arguing that it's been done to great success a few times before doesn't invalidate the assertion that "these guys are kinda small." What was the Chris Rock joke? "You can do it but that doesn't mean it's to be done ... you can drive a car with your feet if you want to but that doesn't make it a good idea."

If you're using Dylan Guenther (who is tall but isn't that physical and who I'm still not 100% certain won't be another Brendan Perlini) to bring up the average size of the group, then it's a small group.

Bedard and Benson are the same height. I do not think anybody would be saying hey lets draft fantilli over Bedard because Bedard is 5'10, and we need a guy who is at least 6'0 in our top 6.

Cole Caufield is 5'7 and has exceptional talent. Chris Conner (shout out 2013 Coyotes) was also 5'7 and had slightly less talent. You can get away with it if the tiny player has truly transcendent skill. But if he doesn't ...

 

[Half Clapper]

You might have missed it but I didn't say they couldn't succeed, I simply said they are small. And those 2 lines are small.

Tampas top 6 was around the same size, if not a bit smaller than what I listed, and they won back to back cups. You're saying we cant draft Benson, because then our top 6 will be too small, which I think is stupid logic.

Arguing that it's been done to great success before doesn't invalidate the assertion that, "these guys are kinda small." What was the Chris Rock joke? "You can do it but that doesn't mean it's to be done ... you can drive a car with your feet if you want to but that doesn't make it a good idea."

If you're using Dylan Guenther (who is tall but isn't that physical and who I'm still not 100% certain won't be another Brendan Perlini) to bring up the average size of the group, then it's a small group.

Ok, on the same token, I can say that Cooley and Benson play a physical chippy brand of hockey, but aren't that big? What is your point? We were arguing based on height only, because apparently you need mainly 6'0+ guys in the top 6 once you get to the playoffs.