GDT: 2023 Caps NHL Draft Thread

[ArmadilloThumb]

No one is giving assets to "develop relationships". Come on now.

OK, then because they want an asset we have, and we start with an increased ask as part of the price discovery process. Better?

 

[rt]

I think dealing with AZ makes a ton of sense. Seems tha Habs are passing on MM so trading for #6 is perfect and gets us ahead of the Flyers. I’d also part with Fever as well in that deal. I’d also request to add Mantha to that deal, not because I think he is worthless, but he would help us clear some cap space for a potential Orlov return or other move.

#8 + Fever + Mantha for #6 if MM is available is fair for me.

I don’t honk Arizona can afford the cash on Mantha, unfortunately. Looks like his deal is backloaded, rather than front loaded. Money is a little tight given the arena situation.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I didn’t know Mich was a held back minority candidate who is desperate to find his next promotion. But hey..whatever makes you feel tough man.

I don’t even know what that means. I’m just enjoying another fantasy comparison.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t even know what that means. I’m just enjoying another fantasy comparison.

Well when you have something meaningful to contribute (or you figure it out), I await your return.

 

[Random schmoe]

I'll throw my 2 cents in though I doubt my thoughts are even worth that.

I'd trade Fehervary and #8 for #6 without blinking. While he still looks 'solid', he hasn't taken the steps I'd need to see to be willing to pay him top 4 money as an RFA. He still may get there, but he isn't yet.

(That said, while I was typing this Langway made a great point about not trading off their active roster and weakening it. To an extent it depends on what kind of money Fehervary is looking for as an RFA.)

I don't really think Alexeyev and Fever are close comparisons as far as their value goes. AA, while he's promising, is still just that - an unknown quantity given his injury history and being Lavi'ed last year. Arizona should be asking for an additional moderate asset on top of him. Of course, if I'm the Caps, I'm reticent to include anything of 'real' value, better than a 3rd round pick or 'squint and maybe' prospect, but I think they'd still do it after some stage hemming and hawing.

All of the above also leads me to say - I'd be surprised if any of those are 'good enough' for Arizona. I'm not sure what value a middle pairing defenseman truly has to a team at their position. Although I don't follow them closely enough to know how far away they expect to be from competing for playoffs, so maybe Fever or Alexeyev could likely be a core piece when they're ready.

Iorio and Chesley ... I'm definitely suffering from prospectis here, but I think both of those guys show more promise than Fehervary's current performance. Of course, when he was a prospect in Hershey, many of us here had him as showing more promise than our current D at the time. (That whole, "A guy who may become a solid NHL piece is better than a guy who already is a solid NHL piece mindset.) yeah, it's dumb, I know it is. But it's still the thought. I'd grudgingly include Iorio if Arizona was sending back another 2nd or 3rd. I'm not confident that Iorio will be anything more than Alzner was - a real solid defensive d-man, but lacking offensive skills or foot speed to be truly good. More of a 'succeeding on name recognition and reputation' guy.

Since this has been a thing over the past few days ... I certainly wouldn't want to trade any future firsts just to move up in the draft (unless it's to #1/#2, but that won't happen). But if they did have to trade a future first, I'd need it to have lottery protection in as close to perpetuity as possible. This team, as it looks right now, certainly doesn't look likely to place high enough to avoid the lottery.

And Miro is completely off the table for me in this kind of a deal.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Well I hope GMBM is a more aggressive negotiator than many on here are.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Any interest or need for Kuznetsov, @rt ? He’s a piece that could help right away and I imagine Kuzy would like the lifestyle in Arizona.

If not, I’d trade anyone on the roster not named Ovechkin, Wilson, or Carlson or any prospect in the entire pool to move to 6 if Michkov is there. It wouldn’t shock me if Washington gave up 8OA + Connor McMichael / Hendrix Lapierre + one of our many future seconds or another roster player/prospect to get to 6. Feels like one of McMichael or Lapierre will not be in the Caps organization after next season, and maybe not even to start this one.

Also, as someone who was a Whalers season ticket holder growing up, I very much hope the Coyotes figure stuff out and stay where they are. Losing your team sucks.

 

[rt]

Any interest or need for Kuznetsov, @rt ? He’s a piece that could help right away and I imagine Kuzy would like the lifestyle in Arizona.

I don’t think so. Young guys are ok coming into a situation like this. And older guys looking for redemption signup for it here and there. But I think an established guy like Kuznetsov would have some major issues coming here. And that’s not good for the culture.

Also, as someone who was a Whalers season ticket holder growing up, I very much hope the Coyotes figure stuff out and stay where they are. Losing your team sucks.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I still have some hope they’ll stay. I’m not even really sweating the losing the “team” thing. I’m a hockey fan. I watch a ton of CHL and USHL, too. It’s really losing the community impact I’m worried about. We have a very strong youth hockey culture around here. My boys play. We’ve got quite a few local rinks that depend on the Coyotes. The rink I play in men’s league is subsidized by the team. I think all of them are. As are the youth programs. And there’s also their foundation and charity work. It will suck for the community to lose them.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Any interest or need for Kuznetsov, @rt ? He’s a piece that could help right away and I imagine Kuzy would like the lifestyle in Arizona.

Also, as someone who was a Whalers season ticket holder growing up, I very much hope the Coyotes figure stuff out and stay where they are. Losing your team sucks.

I'll help this deal out... Kuzy for the 12 OA + is the side deal, or separate deal, however you like.

Kuzy is not a throw-in. I hope GMBM Is asking for a 12 - 25 pick OA + a top half 2nd rounder this year around the league this afternoon. As a starting point. Or, we just keep him, and see if he rebounds under Carberry

If he's not, he should be fired, and we can save his salary and get one of yall to do his job part-time from home fer free.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I'll help this deal out... Kuzy for the 12 OA + is the side deal, or separate deal, however you like.

Kuzy is not a throw-in. I hope GMBM Is asking for a 12 - 25 pick OA + a top half 2nd rounder this year around the league this afternoon. As a starting point. Or, we just keep him, and see if he rebounds under Carberry

If he's not, he should be fired, and we can save his salary and get one of yall to do his job part-time from home fer free.

Kuznetsov is not a throw-in but he’s also scheduled to make $7.8M for the next two seasons and he was statistically one of the worst defensive forwards in the league last year. It’s a big gamble for someone to take, especially with the Flames and Jets seemingly tearing it down to the studs which will make some other top six centers available.

I think Kuznetsov is really tough to value. At his best he’s worth a 1st+ but there are times where he’d be considered a cap dump. Players with this skill set are rare to find but there are a ton of red flags with him. It would take some gumption to part with real assets for him.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Kuznetsov is not a throw-in but he’s also scheduled to make $7.8M for the next two seasons and he was statistically one of the worst defensive forwards in the league last year. It’s a big gamble for someone to take, especially with the Flames and Jets seemingly tearing it down to the studs which will make some other top six centers available.

I think Kuznetsov is really tough to value. At his best he’s worth a 1st+ but there are times where he’d be considered a cap dump. Players with this skill set are rare to find but there are a ton of red flags with him. It would take some gumption to part with real assets for him.p

I agree, but insist the ask has to be based on GMBM selling his potential, otherwise we go with him as our rehabilitation project under Carberry (and potentially move at the deadline or next summer).

I'm not really worried about his salary, as I expect something realistic will happen with Backstrom's salary, but we won't know until that transpires.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I dont think trading up 1 spot is a great option. It only makes sense if the team right above you has both your pick and another pick rated almost evenly. If they value the same player as your pick, they aren't trading it. If they are too willing to trade it, then just call the bluff and let them pick who they have slated and you take who you wanted.

Until they trade it to someone else (looking at you, Detroit).

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think Washington would probably prefer to trade the 40th pick and/or Chesley if that's enough. Part of the issue with trading Fehervary is he's unlikely to get a significant raise next season and they're probably not going to want to go with a Sandin/Alexeyev/Johansen blueline. Maybe someone like Dumoulin could fit in UFA. Maybe Edler in a third pair role. But they'd probably struggle in UFA to find a top 4 LD that doesn't cost more (there's not a long list of them overall). To subtract from next year's roster for Michkov is something of a tough ask.

I don't doubt they feel obligated to secure this player but I'd probably look for it to be more futures-based.

Under that scenario (Fever being traded), I’m sure that TVR would slide over and be top 4 w Carlson, Sandin, and Jensen. He’s known for being good at playing his off side.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

We may actually want to consider this even IF Michkov is gone say at 4 OA, and we are heavily in on one of Leonard/Benson, and Arizona wants one of the top 2 D at 8 0A.

All comes down to how strongly Mahoney and staff value those two if they are there.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well when you have something meaningful to contribute (or you figure it out), I await your return.

Posters like to call ideas “fantasy land”, as you did w EB coming to DC. Point is fantasyland can happen. And does. If that doesn’t make sense or somehow is me being a “tough guy” (that part was what didn’t make sense, there aren’t tough guys on message boards, that’s stupid), then it is what it is.

I don’t honk Arizona can afford the cash on Mantha, unfortunately. Looks like his deal is backloaded, rather than front loaded. Money is a little tight given the arena situation.

I think the Caps taking back Schmaltz would negate that problem.

8OA, Fever, Mantha
6OA, 72 OA, Schmaltz

 

[rt]

Posters like to call ideas “fantasy land”, as you did w EB coming to DC. Point is fantasyland can happen. And does. If that doesn’t make sense or somehow is me being a “tough guy” (that part was what didn’t make sense, there aren’t tough guys on message boards, that’s stupid), then it is what it is.


I think the Caps taking back Schmaltz would negate that problem.

8OA, Fever, Mantha
6OA, 72 OA, Schmaltz

I feel like Schmaltz is worth more, though?

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'll help this deal out... Kuzy for the 12 OA + is the side deal, or separate deal, however you like.

Kuzy is not a throw-in. I hope GMBM Is asking for a 12 - 25 pick OA + a top half 2nd rounder this year around the league this afternoon. As a starting point. Or, we just keep him, and see if he rebounds under Carberry

If he's not, he should be fired, and we can save his salary and get one of yall to do his job part-time from home fer free.

I have to ask — what makes you think Kuznetsov is worth a 1st rounder in the 23 draft?

I don’t think he is

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Posters like to call ideas “fantasy land”, as you did w EB coming to DC. Point is fantasyland can happen. And does. If that doesn’t make sense or somehow is me being a “tough guy” (that part was what didn’t make sense, there aren’t tough guys on message boards, that’s stupid), then it is what it is.


I think the Caps taking back Schmaltz would negate that problem.

8OA, Fever, Mantha
6OA, 72 OA, Schmaltz

I think 8OA + Fever + Mantha would be the price for 6OA. Don’t see Arizona adding here unless they really want Schmaltz off the team. And even if they wanted Schmaltz off the team, I think he’d be included without adding 72OA.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I feel like Schmaltz is worth more, though?

Ok, like what?

I think 8OA + Fever + Mantha would be the price for 6OA. Don’t see Arizona adding here unless they really want Schmaltz off the team. And even if they wanted Schmaltz off the team, I think he’d be included without adding 72OA.

They won’t want Mantha unless we take salary costs back (backloaded contract like Schmaltz would help w their cash flow — I’d rather they got a D, but I don’t know AZ’s contracts all that well)

 

[RedRocking]

I don’t think so. Young guys are ok coming into a situation like this. And older guys looking for redemption signup for it here and there. But I think an established guy like Kuznetsov would have some major issues coming here. And that’s not good for the culture.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I still have some hope they’ll stay. I’m not even really sweating the losing the “team” thing. I’m a hockey fan. I watch a ton of CHL and USHL, too. It’s really losing the community impact I’m worried about. We have a very strong youth hockey culture around here. My boys play. We’ve got quite a few local rinks that depend on the Coyotes. The rink I play in men’s league is subsidized by the team. I think all of them are. As are the youth programs. And there’s also their foundation and charity work. It will suck for the community to lose them.

Random aside - my little cousin, who is now a local Phoenix sports anchor, grew up in the various youth hockey programs in your area. I was always impressed with how quickly the infrastructure and culture grew out there. It would be a shame for hockey to take a step back in that community.

I hope something gets figured out - best of luck to you guys!

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Funniest shit I have seen all day.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I have to ask — what makes you think Kuznetsov is worth a 1st rounder in the 23 draft?

I think he has the potential, in the right situation, to bounce back to at least that value. He only gets that if another GM shares that vision for Kuzy in their trajectory/player mix. If they dont, both parties move on.

 

[twabby]

Moved to the other thread.

 

[trick9]

I don't see that kind of trade happening. I mean... if we leapfrog the Flyers and Michkov is gone... Coyotes aren't going to get Leonard at 8.

Then there is a case of making our team weaker for next season. Whether that makes sense or not, i don't think GMBM would do it because it's a rebuilding move. On top of the pick for pick swap you are giving away young D who plays 20 really tough minutes per game.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

so im sure im completely forgetting a good player but when was the last time the caps did anything at the draft regarding moving up to get a player and that player turned into anything? Guess im still used to anything that could be uniquely positive for the caps being snuffed out immediately. After they won the cup I thought ok, here we go, we will start being a team that good bounces happen too regularly. Bam, next season, lose to bunch of kids in the first round. Back to normal.

We traded up for Lappy