Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[Gruyeriev]

Saw a leafs fan speculating they might waive Connor Timmins. I’d take him back in a heartbeat, even if it was just to keep MacDermid down. Anyone else think the Avs would be interested?

 

[PAZ]

Traditionally (not always) the Avs have operated earlyish in the summer. Then added PTOs at the end without much in between. ERod last year was an exception.

IMO the Avs see the roster as pretty well set except camp competition via PTOs.

Oh I get their MO, I just wish they'd adapt.

Normally at this point there's barely any talent left anyways, but there's some decent names. Everyone knows depth is one of the Avs' weak link, yet they refuse to address it properly when there is a clear opportunity to fix it for next to nothing.

Do they really think Olofsson is better than Comtois/Motte/etc. I know they signed Kirvanta to a PTO, but i'd be a lot more comfortable with our depth if we had Comtois/Motte/etc. as our 12th/13th forward instead of Olofsson.

IMO Plan A is to monitor the waiver wire very closely for a cheap winger or a RD.

Plan B is to keep the cap space for the deadline, but I'd not be surprised if they aren't all that interested into trading their first pick.

Plan B makes no sense to me since we're working with LTIR space. Any depth forward they sign won't cost anything to dump since it's the cost of doing business.

 

[Valushkin]

Say what you want about Chelios, but the dude knows defense and here is his take…. Compares Toews to Lidstrom LOL…. I mean I love it!!!! Not a fan of Karlsson which anyone that actually played defense would understand

 

[JH21]

Yeah I watched the games. People underrate how good Florida is defensively upfront. I'm not saying they don't have a part in it (they do), just saying the real issue lies elsewhere. You can win with Matthews and Marner... not sure you can win with Tavares with them and that defense.

Obviously Toronto is a great regular season team but when things get dirty in the playoffs guys like Marner, Nylander and Matthews are as soft as butter.

That's why Treliving's first thing he did was bring in guys with sandpaper and grit in Domi, Bertuzi and Reaves.

But I still say Toronto will never win. Your star players need heart. Who would you rather have when things get tough: Mackinnon and Landeskog or Matthews and Marner?

The same can be said about Edmonton and McDavid. Until he starts showing the slightest but of care about playing a two way game they will never win.

Washington was a perennial one and done team until Oveckin changed his game and started playing in his own end and trucking people. When 3rd and 4th liners see your star players leveling guys and doing the dirty stuff in the corners instead of sitting at the red line waiting for the puck that motivates them all. They better step it up if the stars are doing the greasy work kind of thing.

 

[JH21]

Its tough with how the team is constructed. If we re-sign Toews I think Byrams makes sense to move potentially. Moving Girard obviously makes the most sense as he's the worst of the LD, but I don't know if you get enough value from a Girard trade to make it worth it. Obviously you get the cap space from the trade, but there's a gaping hole at 2C post RyJo and I just don't know if Girard can return that; next year will be a big one for Girard and the Avs going forwards I think. The questions regarding the D and 2C will loom large over the season depending on how good/bad the season goes. I guess the question in the end is, can Girard get back to a level where he can be a positive on the 2nd pair or not. And would running him and a 2C from a Byram trade be more beneficial than whatever you'd get from a Girard trade?

Byram isn't going anywhere. Jesus man.

There is no scenario in which we are a better team with Girard instead of Byram.

 

[thedoctor]

Saw a leafs fan speculating they might waive Connor Timmins. I’d take him back in a heartbeat, even if it was just to keep MacDermid down. Anyone else think the Avs would be interested?

he would be a pretty perfect fit on the 3rd pairing.

 

[UnkleKraker]

If the Leafs don’t win a Cup with this core (and the chances are slim they will IMO). The big reasons will be paying for Tavares as a UFA and Marner/Matthews too early. Killed their opportunity to have a few key depth years. Kind of the crux of having a couple guys step in early and perform at a very high level.

Whereas on the most recent go round New Jersey got a break on Hughes and Ottawa got a break on Stutzle giving them a shot to build depth.

Avs got lucky MacK didn’t breakout until he was in his long term deal.

Which is why I shake my head at folks clamoring for impact FA's. Quickest way to torpedo your team is to overpay for a front line player in FA.

 

[redacted]

Which is why I shake my head at folks clamoring for impact FA's. Quickest way to torpedo your team is to overpay for a front line player in FA.

There's a time and place for them, but you're never getting the best value on UFA deals (even re-signings). You have to have value elsewhere in the lineup to be able to afford it. Toronto only had that for 1 year with Tavares.

 

[UnkleKraker]

There's a time and place for them, but you're never getting the best value on UFA deals (even re-signings). You have to have value elsewhere in the lineup to be able to afford it. Toronto only had that for 1 year with Tavares.

Agreed. I guess TML were really trying to make a splash back then and in their market maybe that was a defensible position. Probably hinges on whether they actually win a cup. For the Avs that would have been a monumental mistake but I still see people upset when we don't go after big names. It should be painfully clear that our true path to an extended window is rookies on ELC making an impact. Depth adds with good contracts will help as well.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The thing I don't get about TML...was Tavares ever as good as people think he was?

He was a legit star player, but if I'm being honest, any player that makes as big of a deal out of themselves being a free agent as Tavares did should be a huge red flag for teams. I'm not surprised he hasn't won shit.

 

[redacted]

The thing I don't get about TML...was Tavares ever as good as people think he was?

He was a legit star player, but if I'm being honest, any player that makes as big of a deal out of themselves being a free agent as Tavares did should be a huge red flag for teams. I'm not surprised he hasn't won shit.

Personally, I think Tavares was worth every penny when he signed that deal. The problem is he simply is following the aging curve. His stats haven't dropped that much, but the NHL scores 10% more that it did at his peak, and his ability on the defensive end that wasn't great to begin with is becoming a liability.

 

[Hasbro]

Personally, I think Tavares was worth every penny when he signed that deal. The problem is he simply is following the aging curve. His stats haven't dropped that much, but the NHL scores 10% more that it did at his peak, and his ability on the defensive end that wasn't great to begin with is becoming a liability.

That and they need more help on the Blueline and haven't had reliable goaltending.

 

[AvsGuy]

Easily. Byram is the Dman I personally would move in general. He's the best combination of value while also not really being that important to us given we have Toews and Girard on the Left Side already.


If you can move Byram for a legit high end 2C that solves the position permanently for 4-5 years or more, that's what I would do.

Brah what? You move Girard 10 times out of 10 before you ever move Byram, and that's with contracts considered

Girard has noticeable in-game flaws. Byram's only flaw is his health.

 

[The Moops]

Brah what? You move Girard 10 times out of 10 before you ever move Byram, and that's with contracts considered

Girard has noticeable in-game flaws. Byram's only flaw is his health.

That's a huge flaw though. Guy consistently misses 50% of games so far

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Brah what? You move Girard 10 times out of 10 before you ever move Byram, and that's with contracts considered

Girard has noticeable in-game flaws. Byram's only flaw is his health.

That's just not even close to true. Byram has plenty of flaws as well.

Nonsense like this doesn't even make it worth responding.

 

[JH21]

That's just not even close to true. Byram has plenty of flaws as well.


[MOD]

Byram right now is 10x the player Girard is. In a year or two it won't even be close.

Ask fans what they would give for Byram. Then ask those same fans what they would give for Girard. That would be your answer.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Byram right now is 10x the player Girard is. In a year or two it won't even be close.

Again, complete nonsense.


Byram is a slightly better player. Certainly not 10x better or even remotely close to that garbage. There's also absolutely no guarantee Byram gets better than he is now.


And, most importantly of all. He's the 3rd best Dman on the team. He really isn't that important to the team when we already have Makar and Toews ahead of him.

 

[AvsMakar08]

That's just not even close to true. Byram has plenty of flaws as well.

Nonsense like this doesn't even make it worth responding.

I guess you did not watch when Byram played in the playoffs. He was at times better and sometimes even more relied upon then Makar in some games especially in the finals.

 

[sethro109]

Girard is everyone's scapegoat now. Despite the fact he was great in the playoffs and was not the reason we failed by any stretch. Our downfall was forward depth. Having Compher as the 2C and Nuke banging hookers is what did us in.

Bo is valuable and if he takes a step should be our #2 D-man. Toews and or Manson are the ones we need to let walk/trade so we can afford to pay Mikko and add some more forward depth.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard is everyone's scapegoat now. Despite the fact he was great in the playoffs and was not the reason we failed by any stretch. Our downfall was forward depth. Having Compher as the 2C and Nuke banging hookers is what did us in.

Bo is valuable and if he takes a step should be our #2 D-man. Toews and or Manson are the ones we need to let walk/trade so we can afford to pay Mikko and add some more forward depth.

Toews is by far the best of the 3 LD and quite frankly i dont think Bo ever get better than him. You let Toews walk you close this current window pretty much.

Which, if they were willing to make all of the tough decisions and go that route, I think it would be fine. But I doubt they are willing to do that.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Toews is by far the best of the 3 LD and quite frankly i dont think Bo ever get better than him. You let Toews walk you close this current window pretty much.

Which, if they were willing to make all of the tough decisions and go that route, I think it would be fine. But I doubt they are willing to do that.

Letting Toews walk for free slams the window shut. You could theoretically trade him and come out like a bandit. Especially if you can get him to do a sign and trade that allows for that 8th year.

It's going to be frustrating watching this thing unfold. I imagine CMac and Toews camp will talk right before training camp because their phones were broke all summer long. They probably won't come to a deal and will agree to talk again in the new year or more likely after the season.

We'll all see and listen to Devon talk about how much the Colorado River means to him but when St. Louis comes calling on July 1st, we'll see him sing another tune ala Pauly Walnuts.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

The thing I don't get about TML...was Tavares ever as good as people think he was?

He was a legit star player, but if I'm being honest, any player that makes as big of a deal out of themselves being a free agent as Tavares did should be a huge red flag for teams. I'm not surprised he hasn't won shit.

A little late to this discussion, but I really think you underestimate Tavares. In his prime he was a superstar imo. Just a notch below the absolute best. I would have taken the deal he made with the TML easily. At that time I think it would have vaulted the Avs into contention.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Letting Toews walk for free slams the window shut. You could theoretically trade him and come out like a bandit. Especially if you can get him to do a sign and trade that allows for that 8th year.

It's going to be frustrating watching this thing unfold. I imagine CMac and Toews camp will talk right before training camp because their phones were broke all summer long. They probably won't come to a deal and will agree to talk again in the new year or more likely after the season.

We'll all see and listen to Devon talk about how much the Colorado River means to him but when St. Louis comes calling on July 1st, we'll see him sing another tune ala Pauly Walnuts.

The thing is, IMO trading him is probably the absolute last thing I would do, honestly. I'd rather treat him as our own rental this year and lose him for nothing in free agency next summer. IMO they should do one of two things, either:

A) Keep him, re-sign him and continue with this core group of guys for the next 3-4 years and see how long you can continue to compete. I suspect the window lasts at maximum 2 years into Toews new contract, but maybe they find one more cup with this group. It would basically continue to look like what we do right now. Really good star power, awful depth and the depth would only get harder and harder to fill as everyone continues to get new contracts that are fair value instead of discount deals.

B) Go all in one more time this year with this core. Aggressive buying at the deadline, push all the chips in the middle one last time, for me this would look like say our 2023 1st for DeBrusk + a trade for a #4/5 RD . Keep Toews as our own rental for the year and load up completely for a cup run. I actually think especially if Landy were on schedule to come back for the playoffs this year, this is the route I like the most for us(But I know it wont happen, our management would never be this cut throat).

After this year however, you start the retool and start making the hard decisions early. For me that would mean trading Mikko, trading one of Nuke/Lehky, etc. etc.

 

[sethro109]

Toews is by far the best of the 3 LD and quite frankly i dont think Bo ever get better than him. You let Toews walk you close this current window pretty much.

Which, if they were willing to make all of the tough decisions and go that route, I think it would be fine. But I doubt they are willing to do that.

I do agree that he's our best LD, I just think he's going to ask for more than we can afford. If Bo can establish himself this season by playing at least 75% of the games before the trade deadline while looking good, We absolutely should move on from Toews and use that money for depth. I'm more than fine with using him as our own rental. I believe this course would actually extend our window and not slam it shut. On the other hand, spending too much on Toews? I believe that is what would kill us. We're getting too top-heavy as is. Makar was able to be a game changer with the likes of Graves as his D partner, he'll be more than fine with Bo there. He and Bo even showed some amazing chemistry during the season while paired a few times. What we really need is a right side shutdown guy like Manson for the second pairing, but one that isn't injured constantly.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I do agree that he's our best LD, I just think he's going to ask for more than we can afford. If Bo can establish himself this season by playing at least 75% of the games before the trade deadline while looking good, We absolutely should move on from Toews and use that money for depth. I'm more than fine with using him as our own rental. I believe this course would actually extend our window and not slam it shut. On the other hand, spending too much on Toews? I believe that is what would kill us. We're getting too top-heavy as is. Makar was able to be a game changer with the likes of Graves as his D partner, he'll be more than fine with Bo there. He and Bo even showed some amazing chemistry during the season while paired a few times. What we really need is a right side shutdown guy like Manson for the second pairing, but one that isn't injured constantly.

That isn't going to change though, you'd just be kicking the can down the road an extra year. Byram isn't going to be cheap and quite frankly if he does take a step forward there's a good chance he costs even more than Toews.

I dont agree at all on Bo quite frankly. He and Makar looked terrible whenever they were paired together and that's a big part of why I much prefer to keep Toews. Byram doesn't understand that he simply isn't as skilled as Makar when they're on the ice together and he forces Cale to have to play way safer and cautious. Compared to Toews who completely let's Cale do his thing on the ice.


Bo and Cale are not a good pairing and I don't think they ever will be. If you keep Bo over Toews long term, you're gonna have to find another partner for Cale. Fortunately as you said about Graves, if you can find a solid defense oriented guy, they'll work perfectly with Cale. He will make any Dman of that type look good.



Just imagine if UFA Jake Slavin decided he wanted to go home to Colorado...