2023-24 Senators Prospect Watch

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Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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I searched for a list and found a reference to a site which listed some but it did not identify the "law" that requires them.


"Citizenship Responsibilities​

In Canada, rights come with responsibilities. These include:
  • Obeying the law — One of Canada’s founding principles is the rule of law. Individuals and governments are regulated by laws and not by arbitrary actions. No person or group is above the law.
  • Taking responsibility for oneself and one’s family — Getting a job, taking care of one’s family and working hard in keeping with one’s abilities are important Canadian values. Work contributes to personal dignity and self-respect, and to Canada’s prosperity.
  • Serving on a jury — When called to do so, you are legally required to serve. Serving on a jury is a privilege that makes the justice system work as it depends on impartial juries made up of citizens.
  • Voting in elections — The right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote in federal, provincial or territorial and local elections.
  • Helping others in the community — Millions of volunteers freely donate their time to help others without pay—helping people in need, assisting at your child’s school, volunteering at a food bank or other charity, or encouraging newcomers to integrate. Volunteering is an excellent way to gain useful skills and develop friends and contacts.
  • Protecting and enjoying our heritage and environment — Every citizen has a role to play in avoiding waste and pollution while protecting Canada’s natural, cultural and architectural heritage for future generations."
Do you know where they are identified in the laws of the land?
It’s best to read the charter to get a sense of what I mean, along with me explaining it better. ;)

An example is that we have the right to religious expression, however, we are limited in that we must accept that others have that same right as well and we aren’t allowed to infringe on others. There is a social responsibility there that doesn’t start and end with ‘my rights’.

Each rights and freedoms category lists the limitations.

Another is equality rights. We are all protected under the charter in terms of being treated with equal respect, however, this doesn’t mean that everyone gets has the right to be treated the exact same. In order to respect the cultures of others, sometimes we are required to accept differences as a means of respecting equality. There is a responsibility in terms of behaviour there to go along with the rights and freedoms.

In essence, “my rights” is only half of the charter, “the rights of others” is the other half that requires a level of respect and responsibility on the part of each citizen. In the end it is all of us to ensure the rights and freedoms of all of us are maintained.
 

Dan Patrick

Registered User
Mar 11, 2020
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It’s best to read the charter to get a sense of what I mean, along with me explaining it better. ;)

An example is that we have the right to religious expression, however, we are limited in that we must accept that others have that same right as well and we aren’t allowed to infringe on others. There is a social responsibility there that doesn’t start and end with ‘my rights’.

Each rights and freedoms category lists the limitations.

Another is equality rights. We are all protected under the charter in terms of being treated with equal respect, however, this doesn’t mean that everyone gets has the right to be treated the exact same. In order to respect the cultures of others, sometimes we are required to accept differences as a means of respecting equality. There is a responsibility in terms of behaviour there to go along with the rights and freedoms.

In essence, “my rights” is only half of the charter, “the rights of others” is the other half that requires a level of respect and responsibility on the part of each citizen. In the end it is all of us to ensure the rights and freedoms of all of us are maintained.

Oh hey look it’s my undergraduate degree!

1724676499913.gif
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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Another "don't know if that was posted before"


And his pools ranking


Don't know what people's opinion about his work is, just reporting the articles. We are ranked 30th

1- San Jose
2- Montreal
3- Anaheim
4- Columbus
5- Detroit
8- Buffalo
23- Toronto
26- Florida
30- Ottawa
31- Boston
32- Tampa Bay

Just a thought but the quality of the Bruins/Leafs/Bolts/Panthers pools give us a bit of hope. Hopefully they all decline quickly in the next few years giving us a path to contention or at least more competitiveness.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
56,708
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Another "don't know if that was posted before"


And his pools ranking


Don't know what people's opinion about his work is, just reporting the articles. We are ranked 30th

1- San Jose
2- Montreal
3- Anaheim
4- Columbus
5- Detroit
8- Buffalo
23- Toronto
26- Florida
30- Ottawa
31- Boston
32- Tampa Bay

Just a thought but the quality of the Bruins/Leafs/Bolts/Panthers pools give us a bit of hope. Hopefully they all decline quickly in the next few years giving us a path to contention or at least more competitiveness.
I'll say this, if Kleven is your 6th best prospect, you should be in pretty good shape. I don't think he's our 6th best though, more likely he's our 2nd best.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
29,685
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East Coast
I'll say this, if Kleven is your 6th best prospect, you should be in pretty good shape. I don't think he's our 6th best though, more likely he's our 2nd best.
Having him as the 6th is ridiculous, especially looking at the 2 goalies and Halliday ahead of him

It's a pretty significant drop after Ostapchuk and Kleven, and that is a pretty low standard as is.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
56,708
34,507
Having him as the 6th is ridiculous, especially looking at the 2 goalies and Halliday ahead of him

It's a pretty significant drop after Ostapchuk and Kleven, and that is a pretty low standard as is.
If Halliday turns out to be the next Batherson or Stone, that would be a huge upgrade to the pool and justify him being ahead of Kleven (though then he'd be ahead of Ostapchuk too). Goalies are voodoo and all, so I typically just ignore them in the context of rankings like this unless they are clearly a future star.

My guess is they are just not particularly high on Kleven though, and still clinging onto hope that Sogaard is a future starter.
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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If Halliday turns out to be the next Batherson or Stone, that would be a huge upgrade to the pool and justify him being ahead of Kleven (though then he'd be ahead of Ostapchuk too). Goalies are voodoo and all, so I typically just ignore them in the context of rankings like this unless they are clearly a future star.

My guess is they are just not particularly high on Kleven though, and still clinging onto hope that Sogaard is a future starter.
That makes sense, though I don't think that the Halliday comparisons to Batherson and Stone hold much water, personally.

I never even look at goalies to rank among our prospects, so there is likely bias there as well
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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That makes sense, though I don't think that the Halliday comparisons to Batherson and Stone hold much water, personally.

I never even look at goalies to rank among our prospects, so there is likely bias there as well
Yeah, a Batherson or Stone Comp is certainly pre-mature at the very least. I'm excited to see how he does this year though, he's been a bit hidden for me playing in Ohio, and he seemed to adapt to the pro game very quickly.
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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Yeah, a Batherson or Stone Comp is certainly pre-mature at the very least. I'm excited to see how he does this year though, he's been a bit hidden for me playing in Ohio, and he seemed to adapt to the pro game very quickly.
Absolutely, but at the same age both Batherson and Stone were 0.6+ ppg guys in the NHL after putting up PPG+ in the AHL as 20 and 21 year olds. Halliday can do that, of course, but I don’t think it’s very likely.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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These sites are opinion pieces & nothing more, they have their preferences & biases no different than a number of informed people on here. Ottawa has their top 6 to top nine figured out & they are still young & are now trying to figure out the bottom six & 4th line to compliment the top six & they have sufficient depth to do just that. Their high end skill is already on the team, they don't need it at this time in their prospect pool, they have the next number of yrs to add that depending on how they draft & trade in future.

With Forsberg & Hamonic's contracts ending this yr they have two cheaper options waiting in the wings & it's likely if Giroux re-signs with the team it will be at a lower salary freeing up a little more cash. This money should be used to re-sign Ullmark, Greig & Kleven. first then if there is money left over fill another hole at free agency or through trade.

They also have their top 4 figured out & have some depth on both sides as they look to solidify their defence. They also have their #1 goalie & will look to find a decent replacement for Forsberg once his contract is done at the end of this season. It doesn't mean that they have a playoff team pr all the right pieces in place just yet, but they are inching closer to it IMO.
 
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Finster8

aka-Ant Hill Harry
Jan 18, 2015
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Watched Saginaw play a load of games last season and was quite impressed with Donovan. His offensive numbers were down only due to Parekh and Dionicio playing 1st PP and his D game was developed more. He’s a #1PP on most teams last year. I see him surprising lots of people as he is a very talented young man
 

Sens of Anarchy

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BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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East Coast

1. Stutzle
2. Yakemchuk
3. Sanderson
4. Greig
5. Ostapchuk
6. Donovan
7. Kleven
8. Merilainen
...
Hard to fathom how much he loves this prospect.
I know I would not be ranking Yakemchuk ahead of Sanderson. The gap in Skating, Hockey Sense and ability to defend is huge imo. Yakemchuk has a lot to overcome before he's an NHL All-Star.
It's idiotic, it's extremely out of the ordinary and borderline insane

He's put his flag down; it's not likely to ever live up to what he sees, but he's sticking by it
 
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Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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1. Stutzle
2. Yakemchuk
3. Sanderson
4. Greig
5. Ostapchuk
6. Donovan
7. Kleven
8. Merilainen
...
Hard to fathom how much he loves this prospect.
I know I would not be ranking Yakemchuk ahead of Sanderson. The gap in Skating, Hockey Sense and ability to defend is huge imo. Yakemchuk has a lot to overcome before he's an NHL All-Star.
That's wild... then again, I think Pronman was pretty low on Sanderson when he was drafted so it's possible there's still a lot of that in this ranking but still.
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
29,685
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East Coast
That's wild... then again, I think Pronman was pretty low on Sanderson when he was drafted so it's possible there's still a lot of that in this ranking but still.
Regardless of draft day rankings, (Had him outside the 1st in January, before he went along with what everyone else had been saying for ages), it takes a special kind of stubborn/stupid to have a guy like Yakemchuk ahead of an already NHL star and #1 in Sanderson.

I don't think the absolute best case scenario of Yakemhuk, which I think is very unrealistically going to be achieved, is as good as present Sanderson

Jan 29, 2020
Jake Sanderson, D, USNTDP-USHL: Most – but not all – scouts I know have Sanderson in the first, so I know I’m off the board here a bit, especially after his recent MVP performance at the All-American prospects game. I like the player, he does everything well with no clear weakness. He’s a great skater, plays hard, defends very well and has some skill; but his offensive ceiling and ability to make plays is a question mark for me.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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That's wild... then again, I think Pronman was pretty low on Sanderson when he was drafted so it's possible there's still a lot of that in this ranking but still.
yah he had him 10th. Behind (5-9) Perfetti, Holtz, Drysdale, Askarov, Rossi but not sure he's be clinging to that. He's no god when it comes to ranking prospects.

in 2018 (just had a look) 3. Zadina, 4. Kotkaniemi, 5. Hughes, 6. Wahlstrom, 7. Boqvist, 8. Bokk, 9. Tkachuk, 10. Merkley

I would not want that on my resumé
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Regardless of draft day rankings, (Had him outside the 1st in January, before he went along with what everyone else had been saying for ages), it takes a special kind of stubborn/stupid to have a guy like Yakemchuk ahead of an already NHL star and #1 in Sanderson.

I don't think the absolute best case scenario of Yakemhuk, which I think is very unrealistically going to be achieved, is as good as present Sanderson

Jan 29, 2020
Jake Sanderson, D, USNTDP-USHL: Most – but not all – scouts I know have Sanderson in the first, so I know I’m off the board here a bit, especially after his recent MVP performance at the All-American prospects game. I like the player, he does everything well with no clear weakness. He’s a great skater, plays hard, defends very well and has some skill; but his offensive ceiling and ability to make plays is a question mark for me.
No appreciation unless you have what he sees as high offensive upside. He'd probably have Niklaus Lindstrom in the 9th round based on offensive upside when he was drafted.
 

Senator Stanley

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Dec 11, 2003
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1. Stutzle
2. Yakemchuk
3. Sanderson
4. Greig
5. Ostapchuk
6. Donovan
7. Kleven
8. Merilainen
...
Hard to fathom how much he loves this prospect.
I know I would not be ranking Yakemchuk ahead of Sanderson. The gap in Skating, Hockey Sense and ability to defend is huge imo. Yakemchuk has a lot to overcome before he's an NHL All-Star.

He put Buium ahead of Brock Faber, too. He seems to only care about where he believes a player will end up, without any concern for how close they are to getting there.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
29,280
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1. Stutzle
2. Yakemchuk
3. Sanderson
4. Greig
5. Ostapchuk
6. Donovan
7. Kleven
8. Merilainen
...
Hard to fathom how much he loves this prospect.
I know I would not be ranking Yakemchuk ahead of Sanderson. The gap in Skating, Hockey Sense and ability to defend is huge imo. Yakemchuk has a lot to overcome before he's an NHL All-Star.
Is there an age limit to this ranking, like 22 & under? Must be because they have Merilainen ahead of Sogaard who is 23. Yakemchuk is too high & so is Donovan.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Is there an age limit to this ranking, like 22 & under? Must be because they have Merilainen ahead of Sogaard who is 23. Yakemchuk is too high & so is Donovan.
22 and under.. correct. I personally like Merilainen over Sogaard but I soured some on Sogaard with his play in the playoffs. He was losing his net too much for my liking. I know that bucks what we see in other rankings and I think the Sens see Sogaard as being ahead as well.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,639
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Montreal, Canada

1. Stutzle
2. Yakemchuk
3. Sanderson
4. Greig
5. Ostapchuk
6. Donovan
7. Kleven
8. Merilainen

He's quite high on Donovan and Merilainen too

But it highlights that we don't have much left in terms of u-23

The real other guys who could be considered Halliday and Andonovski... maybe Bourgault

I'd go :

1. Stutzle
2. Sanderson
3. Greig
4. Yakemchuk
5. Kleven
6. Halliday
7. Andonovski
8. Ostapchuk
9. Donovan
10. Bourgault/Merilainen

I am conservatively projecting Halliday as the next Spezza, aim higher fellas.

He actually reminds me a bit of Spezza... A modern lighter version would be fun and welcomed.

He put Buium ahead of Brock Faber, too. He seems to only care about where he believes a player will end up, without any concern for how close they are to getting there.

If Buium ends up better than Faber I would be extremely upset for the Sens passing on him (I mean, Faber is a freaking beast) but then again, Yakemchuk is going to end up better than Sanderson so we had to choose one I guess... Couldn't go wrong between the two!
 
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Bileur

Registered User
Jun 15, 2004
18,786
7,640
Ottawa
It's idiotic, it's extremely out of the ordinary and borderline insane

He's put his flag down; it's not likely to ever live up to what he sees, but he's sticking by it

Not listing Sanderson’s skating as « high end » is shocking.
 
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