GDT: 2023-24 Season game 4 LA Kings vs Minnesota Wild @5:00pm 10/19/23

[King'sPawn]

Am I wrong about who’s showing more talent and potential? Byfield has looked eh except for that one game where he was very involved. Let’s be honest.

As long as Brock Faber doesn’t score I’m happy

Laferriere is showing more confidence for certain. But this is where deployment and usage matter.

Laferriere spent pretty much each year after the draft in a top-6 role. His coaches trusted him. Each time he entered the league, he would get the implicit messages of "you're ready." From the USHL to NCAA, to getting a top-6 role in his short AHL stint to the moment he stepped on NHL ice. Nobody tried to change his game or throw some hooey sbout earning it or earning the coach's trust.

Byfield's D+1 as a second overall pick, he's told he's not ready and that he needs time. When he finally scores goals in 5 straight AHL games, he's called up and put on a checking, disjointed line of Brown, who was ready to retire, and Athanasiou, who plays a very selfish game. And he was getting criticized for not carrying it.

Byfield was finally put with the perfect complementary player of Iafallo and a skilled player in Vilardi. The line was a menace early in the season until injuries hit. Byfield was again jerked around in his roles.

Finally, he gets put on a line where he needs to play up to his teammates, with Kopitar and Kempe. The goals didn't come, but the energy did. That line not only looked good, but the metrics backed it up. This season, he started with a skilled line that demanded more of him, and he's continued to play up.

You can call it making excuses if you want. But one player was supported with trust in each league he was playing in and was empowered, and came into the league with confidence. Another player with a higher skillset was square-pegged into round holes and instilled with messages that he's not good enough or ready.

We're literally seeing the exact same with Kaliyev. He put up mediocre numbers and was out of his element playing on the 4th line. Suddenly, he's put with a good complementary line (Danault and Moore), and he has 3 points in 2 games.

While of course, physical growth and experience play a role, but you can see him playing better and creating more.

This is what they should have done two seasons ago. The vets should have been utilized to uplift the prospects, instead of just plugging prospects in open spots and put them on notice.

 

[Reaper45]

Another enjoyable game in the Twin Cities, if you’ve never taken in a game, highly recommended.

I love PLD, he fits this team like a glove. He was overdrafted and will never live up to where he was taken in the draft, but he’s a damn good 2nd line player. I think we are a better lineup with PLD/Kaliyev/Laf and $2.5m less space than with Vilardi/Iafallo/Kupari. C depth is a tough thing to get and the Kings have 3 guys capable of centering a line that can score.

The Kings just present such a challenge to check because of the skill level of the 2nd and 3rd lines. Even if the top line gets cancelled out, which may happen against top checkers, how do you contain the other lines, you have Fiala and PLD as great secondary scorers and Danault/Moore are now your third offensive option, they may not have been good as second options but as third? They are elite. Another reason to love that trade and bringing in a true 2C.

Moore is playing great, but to me that just means if you can use him for a goalie down the road you still do it if his value is back fo where it was 2 years ago. Moore was a negative asset last year based on his cap hit, and so far this year he’s been producing at a level that makes him a big value.

The goaltending is probably not going to hold up in the playoffs, the playoffs don’t grind to a 2-1 or 3-2 halt as much as they used to or people still think, but the games do get slightly less scoring. I still think Moore or Roy dealt and replaced by a competent #1 and then either Turcotte or Clarke. I do worry a bit about counting on Turcotte for offense (especially with how Moore is scoring).

The total for this game was 6 again (no sweat with 6 in the first. Lol, I’m hoping this is 2011-2012 all over again except instead of unders it’s overs (also more enjoyable to watch). 36 total goals in 4 games vs 24.5 Vegas expected.

Btw, speaking of a team playing a lot like the Kings right now? Carolina is up to 48 goals total in 5 games. It feels like we have returned to the early 90’s.

At this point I’d much rather move Roy and cash in on him.

Also imagine if Middleton and Cernak were still Kings and at the level they’re at now. Scary good d.

 

[Herby]

At this point I’d much rather move Roy and cash in on him.

Either one works. I guess I would agree with you because I think Clarke can play at a level closer to Roy right now than Turcotte can with Moore.

As weird as it sounds coming off a high scoring game and with the firepower up front, the lack of offensive skill on the back end is still an area of weakness for the Kings.

 

[Fishhead]

Either one works. I guess I would agree with you because I think Clarke can play at a level closer to Roy right now than Turcotte can with Moore.

As weird as it sounds coming off a high scoring game and with the firepower up front, the lack of offensive skill on the back end is still an area of weakness for the Kings.

It's also fair to assume that Moore had such poor value because of his injury. Prior to that he looked just like he does right now, and we all know how long it takes to get right after a head injury.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

I'm not into excuse contortionism for QB, but I don't think the line he's on is gonna be good for his production. The delirious breakout of Kempe and the clockwork points by Kopi make it seem like a good setting but they are content to eat clock with possession but no chances, and they play tons of defense.

 

[Herby]

Laferriere is showing more confidence for certain. But this is where deployment and usage matter.

Laferriere spent pretty much each year after the draft in a top-6 role. His coaches trusted him. Each time he entered the league, he would get the implicit messages of "you're ready." From the USHL to NCAA, to getting a top-6 role in his short AHL stint to the moment he stepped on AHL ice. Nobody tried to change his game or throw some hooey sbout earning it or earning the coach's trust.

His D+1 as a second overall pick, he's told he's not ready and that he needs time. When he finally scores goals in 5 straight AHL games, he's called up and put on a checking, disjointed line of Brown, who was ready to retire, and Athanasiou, who plays a very selfish game. And he was getting criticized for not carrying it.

Byfield was finally put with the perfect complementary player of Iafallo and a skilled player in Vilardi. The line was a menace early in the season until injuries hit. Byfield was again jerked around in his roles.

Finally, he gets put on a line where he needs to play up to his teammates, with Kopitar and Kempe. The goals didn't come, but the energy did. That line not only looked good, but the metrics backed it up. This season, he started with a skilled line that demanded more of him, and he's continued to play up.

You can call it making excuses if you want. But one player was supported with trust in each league he was playing in and was empowered, and came into the league with confidence. Another player with a higher skillset was square-pegged into round holes and instilled with messages that he's not good enough or ready.

We're literally seeing the exact same with Kaliyev. He put up mediocre numbers and was out of his element playing on the 4th line. Suddenly, he's put with a good complementary line (Danault and Moore), and he has 3 points in 2 games.

While of course, physical growth and experience play a role, but you can see him playing better and creating more.

This is what they should have done two seasons ago. The vets should have been utilized to uplift the prospects, instead of just plugging prospects in open spots and put them on notice.

We can only hope going forward that they have learned some valuable lessons on how to handle players and maximize the return on picks. Anderson and Laf were not traditional Kings developments and look how well both have turned out, same with Faber. It’s truly amazing what can happen when you let proven development systems like the ones at Minnesota, Harvard and UMD churn out players who are almost or even ready for the NHL without any AHL time. Maybe Laf is an example that they have adjusted a little.

I do feel bad for certain players who likely had their long term ceiling and earning potential effected by some truly bizarre development decisions that can never be undone, but what can you do.

I do wonder where QB is as a player if he was handed the 2C role that was given to Gabe that season (next to Carter and I believe Moore) as opposed to Ontario. And just was told to go out there and play his game, work hard and get better, rather than being thrown into a playoff race the next season as a rookie and being terrified of making any mistakes that might hurt the team. QB was really robbed of the “go out and learn to play in the NHL” season.

 

[AbsentMojo]

It will be interesting to see how things go against VGK and EDM.. those are the teams the Kings need to beat ultimately. The other question is, is this roster and style conducive to post season hockey. What I loved about DS and DL was the emphasis on the second season almost to the point of not taking the regular season seriously (cf Sutter on shootouts). I dont get the sense there is the same thought process w Blake and co.

 

[King'sPawn]

It will be interesting to see how things go against VGK and EDM.. those are the teams the Kings need to beat ultimately. The other question is, is this roster and style conducive to post season hockey. What I loved about DS and DL was the emphasis on the second season almost to the point of not taking the regular season seriously (cf Sutter on shootouts). I dont get the sense there is the same thought process w Blake and co.

DS and DL definitely set up a roster and style to win a war of attrition. Wear the enemies down, make them either take an extra second to look over their shoulder which makes the forecheck effective, or make them rush into a decision leading to a mistake.

The current Kings aren't built that way. They hope to come in waves and hope that depth with low-event hockey will allow them to outchance the oppisition. It may work out, it may not.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Kaliyev - looked great. Can't count how many times I seen him use his body to get by guys and Maintain possession. 25g is what I'm expecting.

Fiala - i dont think hes playing his best yet but he leads the league in assists. Give it a month and pld and Fiala will be on the same page fully

Englund- another steady game. Not as eventful as his previous games but in a good way. By today's standards he's a physical defenseman. Has size and skate. Let's see If this continues

PLD skill on full display tonight. Well worth the 8.5

He needs to learn how to win a faceoff though

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[Steve Zissou]

A N Z E

 

[johnjm22]

Speaking of our centers, Lizotte was very solid.

He's very good as a 4C. Adding PLD to the lineup keeps him there.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

The guy (PLD) is still over paid, but he has been playing well.

What do you think he is worth ?

I think a million less would have been right but to constantly call him overpaid due to that million, hmm.

 

[AbsentMojo]

DS and DL definitely set up a roster and style to win a war of attrition. Wear the enemies down, make them either take an extra second to look over their shoulder which makes the forecheck effective, or make them rush into a decision leading to a mistake.

The current Kings aren't built that way. They hope to come in waves and hope that depth with low-event hockey will allow them to outchance the oppisition. It may work out, it may not.

Im not suggesting we go back to that system, only to understand how teams like FLA (and what was it that enabled them to get by the president trophy and a very good Carolina team) and VGK made their way to the final. Examine what prevented the Kings from getting by EDM 2 seasons in a row. Its a different season with different rules and style - and you cant just switch gears and start playing playoff hockey toward the end of the year. The cup Kings played their style all season long. So for example, we saw Lizotte get manhandled and injured missing 3 games.. is that a fluke, or is he too small for the post season? Those are questions that need to be answered.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Danault-moore-kaliyev
kickin ass Scorin goals

And to think we thought that TM was going to bury Kaliyev in the AHL....ready to say sorry yet?

 

[kilowatt]

Let me put like this: Byfield is a 9D Laff is a 8C or a 7B.
#vintagehf

I miss those

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Nice job, TM.

 

[Sol]

Laferriere is showing more confidence for certain. But this is where deployment and usage matter.

Laferriere spent pretty much each year after the draft in a top-6 role. His coaches trusted him. Each time he entered the league, he would get the implicit messages of "you're ready." From the USHL to NCAA, to getting a top-6 role in his short AHL stint to the moment he stepped on NHL ice. Nobody tried to change his game or throw some hooey sbout earning it or earning the coach's trust.

Byfield's D+1 as a second overall pick, he's told he's not ready and that he needs time. When he finally scores goals in 5 straight AHL games, he's called up and put on a checking, disjointed line of Brown, who was ready to retire, and Athanasiou, who plays a very selfish game. And he was getting criticized for not carrying it.

Byfield was finally put with the perfect complementary player of Iafallo and a skilled player in Vilardi. The line was a menace early in the season until injuries hit. Byfield was again jerked around in his roles.

Finally, he gets put on a line where he needs to play up to his teammates, with Kopitar and Kempe. The goals didn't come, but the energy did. That line not only looked good, but the metrics backed it up. This season, he started with a skilled line that demanded more of him, and he's continued to play up.

You can call it making excuses if you want. But one player was supported with trust in each league he was playing in and was empowered, and came into the league with confidence. Another player with a higher skillset was square-pegged into round holes and instilled with messages that he's not good enough or ready.

We're literally seeing the exact same with Kaliyev. He put up mediocre numbers and was out of his element playing on the 4th line. Suddenly, he's put with a good complementary line (Danault and Moore), and he has 3 points in 2 games.

While of course, physical growth and experience play a role, but you can see him playing better and creating more.

This is what they should have done two seasons ago. The vets should have been utilized to uplift the prospects, instead of just plugging prospects in open spots and put them on notice.

The fact that a player like Leo Carlson has played his first nhl game already and scored a goal is a big deal that lays credence to the questioning of the Kings development team. I have no doubt that Byfield has been mistreated. I think PLD is a good player but I Have no doubt he got shafted by PLD taking the spot. I even said the same thing when the Kings got danault. I was always wondering why there’s positions being taken away from Byfield.


Despite mismanagement however I think byfield has a very fragile confidence, and I think that in and of itself is an intangible attribute that a player must have.

Even Mike Richards didn’t have very much going for him in skill but he had a ton of unyielding confidence and drive that got him to be one of the most coveted centers during his peak.

Lafferiere is more talented in my opinion and I think having that “intangibles” is a skill itself. I think Byfield has the physical skillset most likely but I think it’s super concerning that he seems to be completely missing the “intangibles” factor.

 

[Docgonzo]

The biggest head scratcher is why Byfield wasn’t put between Fiala and Vilardi last season to see what they have at center with him. He played, what 35?, games at center between Brown and AA. Then throw at wing like he failed at that position for 2-3 seasons.


Also I didn’t see past the 1st period, any reason Spence had such low minutes? Was he bad or made some mistakes or just Koalafornia coaching?

 

[King'sPawn]

The fact that a player like Leo Carlson has played his first nhl game already and scored a goal is a big deal that lays credence to the questioning of the Kings development team. I have no doubt that Byfield has been mistreated. I think PLD is a good player but I Have no doubt he got shafted by PLD taking the spot. I even said the same thing when the Kings got danault. I was always wondering why there’s positions being taken away from Byfield.


Despite mismanagement however I think byfield has a very fragile confidence, and I think that in and of itself is an intangible attribute that a player must have.

Even Mike Richards didn’t have very much going for him in skill but he had a ton of unyielding confidence and drive that got him to be one of the most coveted centers during his peak.

Lafferiere is more talented in my opinion and I think having that “intangibles” is a skill itself. I think Byfield has the physical skillset most likely but I think it’s super concerning that he seems to be completely missing the “intangibles” factor.

Carlsson didn't just get a goal. He got 19:00 minutes of ice time. Byfield got 18:00 in his debut, which was in April of 2021. After spending all season in the AHL. And even though he had that many minutes with a season already lost, his ice time immediately went down the following 5 games, down to as low as 13 minutes.

His season high in 2021-22 was 15:15. He got single digits of ice time in 9 of the 40 games, and averaged 12 minutes total.

I don't think we can say he has a fragile confidence yet. I think he had damaged confidence that finally has started to show since actually getting responsibility in a big role. He's shooting more, fighting in front of the net, winning board battles. He's been robbed of two assists already: Gavrikov's goal tonight and Danault's goal against Winnipeg.

I think we're starting to see the Byfield we should have been seeing back in 2021 if he was given more trust and empowered earlier.

Edit: by the way, speaking of 19 minutes, would you like to know how many times Byfield has played 19 minutes or more out of his 103 career games? I'll give you a hint - you can count the total on one hand and have 3 fingers left over. March 30, 2023 and April 23, 2023. That's the only time he got the ice time Carlson got.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

That is what holds him back from being playoff caliber top 6 C.. his best was last season at 48.5% (off top of my head i looked it up last week)

Are you familiar with what he's done in the playoffs in the past?

 

[Omni Owl]

I was gunning for PLD for awhile, nice to see it materialize. Center is too important of a position to be thin. Our support players look so much better than previous seasons, all the way down to the bottom D pairings and 4th line. As long as Byfield continues to show positive trends on the ice, that's all gravy as far as I'm concerned. He's learning from one of the most consistently beast centers in hockey. Ride the Talbot wave, he looks dialed in.

 

[BringTheReign]

Kopi TOI was about 17 minutes. Very nice

Next step is to start letting Byfield take shifts at center with Kopitar on the wing. One thing at a time though.

Also I didn’t see past the 1st period, any reason Spence had such low minutes? Was he bad or made some mistakes or just Koalafornia coaching?

Spence was rough tonight. He mishandled the puck in front of the net a few times, and he was getting knocked around by the Wild’s bigger bodies on the forecheck.

 

[BringTheReign]

Im not suggesting we go back to that system, only to understand how teams like FLA (and what was it that enabled them to get by the president trophy and a very good Carolina team) and VGK made their way to the final. Examine what prevented the Kings from getting by EDM 2 seasons in a row. Its a different season with different rules and style - and you cant just switch gears and start playing playoff hockey toward the end of the year. The cup Kings played their style all season long. So for example, we saw Lizotte get manhandled and injured missing 3 games.. is that a fluke, or is he too small for the post season? Those are questions that need to be answered.

We also had Fiala and Vilardi injured and only available for some of the games in that series. That and our penalty kill sunk us last year.