Speculation: 2023-24 Free Agency/Trade Thread II

[Anaheim4ever]

I think Carlsson can become better offensively than Barkov but worse defensively. I don't think he'll become a selke guy. I think Cutter/Fantilli are more likely to become Selke guys.

 

[2faded]

I've always been one that wants to keep Gibson and I don't really care for Laine. However, if they're ready to hand the starting role to Dostal, then the cap space would be better spent on Laine than a $6m backup. Plus one less year on the contract.

There's also a scenario where Dostal is just flat out better and takes the starting role. Once Gibson sees he's been demoted to backup he will for sure ask to be traded if he hasn't previously. Now you have a $6m backup who wants out and you're going to get nothing for him when you could have got Laine.

So, I would definitely make that trade.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I am not sure where the barkov Carlsson comparison started, but it is really a bad comp.

I’m pretty sure it was a lazy draft narrative where people assumed Carlsson was a two way shutdown center because he’s Swedish.

 

[Boo Boo]

I am not sure where the barkov Carlsson comparison started, but it is really a bad comp.

I’m pretty sure it was a lazy draft narrative where people assumed Carlsson was a two way shutdown center because he’s Swedish.

Yeah I’m inclined to agree. Like I think he’ll get lots of nice take aways because he makes a lot of great reads in all situations but to me he looks like his bias is tilted much more towards offense than barkov and Kopitar who do both

 

[JAHV]

Yeah I’m inclined to agree. Like I think he’ll get lots of nice take aways because he makes a lot of great reads in all situations but to me he looks like his bias is tilted much more towards offense than barkov and Kopitar who do both

I don't know - I think the comparisons may become more apt this season. I saw a lot of instincts in Carlsson that could bring him toward Barkov in terms of defensive acumen. The main difference seemed to be how he was asked to play and when he was deployed. I think the Ducks told him to focus on creating offense, and they used him overwhelmingly in those situations. However, near the end of the season, they began to give him more defensive responsibility, and he looked good.

I think it's unlikely Carlsson becomes a Selke winner like Barkov, simply because that's very, very difficult to do. But I think he could become a two-way, defensively adept center in the same mold as Barkov.

 

[Leonardo87]

Yeah I’m inclined to agree. Like I think he’ll get lots of nice take aways because he makes a lot of great reads in all situations but to me he looks like his bias is tilted much more towards offense than barkov and Kopitar who do both

The IQ is very similar , imo. They know where to put their sticks down blocking lanes, know where their line-mates are going to be, see the play before it happens, and both can strip the puck and protect the puck with their size. Both are looking to set up a line-mate first, before shooting (need to get Leo a Sam Reinhart type line-mate, lol). Barkov wasn't very physical in the beginning, but became more physical over the years, especially under Paul Maurice, and has shaped up to become a Two-way shutdown 1C, sacrificing some offense, imo. This is where I see the differences between the players.

Can he take that development path to Barkov? Like someone said above, Barkov was not Barkov 10 years ago. So who's to say Leo can't be like a Barkov type in 10 years from now? It’s very possible. He has the Tools, Skill, and physical traits to do so. I just see some similarities in their games but they are still different players.

IMO, Ducks seem to be shaping and developing Leo to be a two-way 1C, which is likely one of the reason they had him on the PK towards the end of the season, and he looked very good with that. I don’t see him being as good defensively as Barkov who is just on a whole different level and who is a legit two-way 1C who can shut down, but I do see him having a higher upside on offense than Barkov.

 

[70sSanO]

Carlsson-Barkov came from the Kopitar comparable that was used for Carlsson when he was drafted. Carlsson was being compared to Kopitar.

I don’t remember the comparable for Barkov at his draft, but I imagine there was some comparison to Kopitar.

Even if it were not there initially, the Barkov-Kopitar comparison has been ongoing for years.

You can’t use Kopitar and not include Barkov with any comparisons.

John

 

[Gliff]

Carlsson is actually extremely similar to Barkov in terms of their draft profile.
A big center with great skill and hockey IQ, and questions about their skating (lol).

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I recall posting that I was immediately reminded of young Barkov when watching Leo in his draft year. Like others have mentioned, young Barkov was not current Barkov for a few years in the league, definitely not as a rookie. I'm really not capping the potential of any part of Leo's game just yet, he's so far from being a finished product

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Someone can take a closer dive into Selke nominations but I strongly suspect that few if any receive accolades for being among the best two way forwards in the game, until they are at least 22/23 years old. Just takes more time to grow into that part of the game, whereas offense is often instant.

Even a guy like Silf who became primarily a defensive player, really didn't start to draw praise for his defensive game until I believe year three or four in the league, so well into his mid 20s. Defense relies so much on discipline and savvy, both traits that tend to grow with time

 

[Boo Boo]

Someone can take a closer dive into Selke nominations but I strongly suspect that few if any receive accolades for being among the best two way forwards in the game, until they are at least 22/23 years old. Just takes more time to grow into that part of the game, whereas offense is often instant.

Even a guy like Silf who became primarily a defensive player, really didn't start to draw praise for his defensive game until I believe year three or four in the league, so well into his mid 20s. Defense relies so much on discipline and savvy, both traits that tend to grow with time

Barkov received his first selke vote at 19 and came 6th in voting at 20 fyi

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Barkov received his first selke vote at 19 and came 6th in voting at 20 fyi

It’s pretty atypical, though. Guys like Bergeron, Kopitar, Kesler and Datsyuk all didn’t get one until like 23. But then you have guys like Ryan O’Reilly and Couturier getting votes almost immediately.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I think Carlsson has a much more flashy, offensive minded game than Barkov. Even when Carlsson talks about his game, he talks about things like Dangling defensmen ect.

I see much more Malkin in him than Barkov. That is not to say he can't or won't be great defensively, I just think the way he generates offense is more creative/skilled than Barkov who is more meat an potatoes (I do not mean that as a slight, as I think Barkov is a top 10 NHL player.)

To me that is where the error is. Most people don't associate skilled/flashy offensive players with Swedish forwards, so I think he is mis-characterized.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Carlsson had the 2nd most takeaways on the team - only 4 behind Terry, who had 20+ more GP than him.

He's also very good at breaking out of the defensive zone, something that I think is really important for shutdown centers.

I could absolutely see him becoming a shutdown forward.

 

[duxfan1101]

Carlsson had the 2nd most takeaways on the team - only 4 behind Terry, who had 20+ more GP than him.

He's also very good at breaking out of the defensive zone, something that I think is really important for shutdown centers.

I could absolutely see him becoming a shutdown forward.

Getting PK time and improving (a lot) on faceoffs will go a long way in his perception as a quality defensive forward.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Getting PK time and improving (a lot) on faceoffs will go a long way in his perception as a quality defensive forward.

That's a great point about faceoffs. I can't think of a single good shutdown center that isn't good at them.

I miss throwing Vermette out and basically guaranteeing we'll get control of the puck lol

 

[duxfan1101]

That's a great point about faceoffs. I can't think of a single good shutdown center that isn't good at them.

I miss throwing Vermette out and basically guaranteeing we'll get control of the puck lol

I’m hoping we add a good faceoff guy this offseason. Losing Henrique and Carrick really tanked our ability to win them.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I’m hoping we add a good faceoff guy this offseason. Losing Henrique and Carrick really tanked our ability to win them.

We could probably do worse than to re-sign Carrick at the league minimum again. Not sure I see a line forming to sign him on July 1.

 

[duxfan1101]

We could probably do worse than to re-sign Carrick at the league minimum again. Not sure I see a line forming to sign him on July 1.

He would be an acceptable fallback option, but I would love Stenlund.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

He would be an acceptable fallback option, but I would love Stenlund.

Here's hoping we upgrade the bottom six as I think PV said he wanted to do, but who knows. At this point in time my head is about to explode between #3OA and the new look sweater. Mid July can't come soon enough.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Here's hoping we upgrade the bottom six as I think PV said he wanted to do, but who knows. At this point in time my head is about to explode between #3OA and the new look sweater. Mid July can't come soon enough.

We’re upgrading the bottom 6 guys. I know we’ve been in hell for years. But this is the first season we have some true positivity up and down the lineup to look forward too

 

[Gliff]

Let this be a warning to anyone who wants to sign Joshua...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803126852300550305

 

[robbieboy3686]

Let this be a warning to anyone who wants to sign Joshua...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803126852300550305

I agree + Joshua is a lefty. We need more rightys

 

[Mr Rogers]

I think Carlsson has a much more flashy, offensive minded game than Barkov. Even when Carlsson talks about his game, he talks about things like Dangling defensmen ect.

I see much more Malkin in him than Barkov. That is not to say he can't or won't be great defensively, I just think the way he generates offense is more creative/skilled than Barkov who is more meat an potatoes (I do not mean that as a slight, as I think Barkov is a top 10 NHL player.)

To me that is where the error is. Most people don't associate skilled/flashy offensive players with Swedish forwards, so I think he is mis-characterized.

I totally agree and I think the Malkin comp is best (have been saying that for a bit). I think it's better than Sundin as well.

potentially in the minority with this, but I actually saw nothing from Leo last year that would suggest he's ever going to become what we would consider a strong defensive player. Sure he has the IQ to grow that part of his game over the years, but nothing he did last year was at all impressive defensively, to me at least.

Comparing him to Kopitar is underselling him offensively and overselling him defensively, i've seen some Kings fans make that comparison and I kinda feel like they are hoping he just becomes "another Kopitar" from an offensive perspective, but IMO there's potential for a whole lot more.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I totally agree and I think the Malkin comp is best (have been saying that for a bit). I think it's better than Sundin as well.

potentially in the minority with this, but I actually saw nothing from Leo last year that would suggest he's ever going to become what we would consider a strong defensive player. Sure he has the IQ to grow that part of his game over the years, but nothing he did last year was at all impressive defensively, to me at least.

Comparing him to Kopitar is underselling him offensively and overselling him defensively, i've seen some Kings fans make that comparison and I kinda feel like they are hoping he just becomes "another Kopitar" from an offensive perspective, but IMO there's potential for a whole lot more.

Agreed. I see more high offensive ceiling in Carlsson than Kopitar/Barkov but less defensive ceiling than them. I think he'll become a good/solid defensive player who isn't a liability but he won't be a selke guy either. I would bet on Cutter being that guy if I had to pick one player who could get future Selke votes, he even trains with Kesler. I kind of wonder if Kesler helped sell Cutter on playing in Anaheim.