Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Star Platinum]

If Rutta was a Shark next year, I'd be both shocked and depressed

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t really think it’s “nerfing” Dobson’s value. More so just lowering it a small amount. Hell I’d still offer the same package from SJ (DAL 1, EDM 1, SJS 2, COL/OTT 2, some combo of Bystedt, Musty, Halttunen, Lund, etc) and call it a day.

For Dobson and Duclair? That’s a vast overpayment.

 

[coooldude]

If Rutta was a Shark next year, I'd be both shocked and depressed

Like I said, Vincent "We have Jan Rutta at home" Desharnais

 

[DG93]

Yeah, Rutta should be gone....I don't think the Desharnais move (especially with him being signed for next year) gets made unless Rutta is expected to leave. Would be nice to see them either buy out Vlasic (I can't see him being waived out of respect for his career) or waive Thrun as well because all 3 of them suck.

 

[matt trick]

For Dobson and Duclair? That’s a vast overpayment.

Yeah, effectively a second and four late firsts (2 1sts, SJ 2nd, Bystedt/Musty) for $12-13.5M in cap savings and the lost of very good offensive defenseman. It's all secondary assets (2 quarters, 2 dimes, and a nickel for a buck), but I don't think a RFA arb-eligible Dobson gets that type of return.

 

[OrrNumber4]

With the recent Duclair/Roy dust up, I was looking at Duclair as an add on to Dobson to try to lower the value a bit maybe and man that contract is bad. It’s only 3.5 but goes through 27/28. This is a dude with 11 points in 44 games that offers not much if anything outside of points.

What clauses does Duclair have?

 

[Gecklund]

For Dobson and Duclair? That’s a vast overpayment.

Easily. That’s a bunch of secondary pieces you’re hoping turn into as good as Dobson.

 

[Gecklund]

What clauses does Duclair have?

That’s not important….

He has an NTC id hope that Grier giving him a chance before and then letting him go to a contender at the end of his contract would be enough for him to waive it.

 

[Lebanezer]

No idea if this source is reputable at all but thought this could be worth sharing.

He clearly wasn’t joking when he said that Warsofsky doesn’t like Russians earlier this year.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah, effectively a second and four late firsts (2 1sts, SJ 2nd, Bystedt/Musty) for $12-13.5M in cap savings and the lost of very good offensive defenseman. It's all secondary assets (2 quarters, 2 dimes, and a nickel for a buck), but I don't think a RFA arb-eligible Dobson gets that type of return.

I don’t think he gets that type of return either because I think he ends up going for one or two more premium pieces.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Easily. That’s a bunch of secondary pieces you’re hoping turn into as good as Dobson.

And we’re a team that can afford to wait and develop those picks. If you can’t get Dobson for the Dallas pick and one of our late 1st/early 2nd prospects, you look elsewhere. I’d rather pay for Pionk than pay all the extra picks we have for Dobson. If we’re taking Duclair off their hands, they only get one of the extra 1sts or one of those prospects. Otherwise, there are more cost effective options and more picked prospects are still needed in the organization.

 

[Gecklund]

And we’re a team that can afford to wait and develop those picks. If you can’t get Dobson for the Dallas pick and one of our late 1st/early 2nd prospects, you look elsewhere. I’d rather pay for Pionk than pay all the extra picks we have for Dobson. If we’re taking Duclair off their hands, they only get one of the extra 1sts or one of those prospects. Otherwise, there are more cost effective options and more picked prospects are still needed in the organization.

And why would Pionk choose SJ?

I think we just vastly disagree on team building which is fine. Personally I don’t care at all about dumping every single non core piece on this team if we are getting a piece that could be a part of this core going forward. Core pieces to me at this moment are Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson, and Askarov. Everyone else? I’ll move them for a piece to add to that core easily.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

And why would Pionk choose SJ?

We can probably give him the best contract if Grier wants to offer it.

 

[Gecklund]

We can probably give him the best contract if Grier wants to offer it.

Who cares? This is a guy that doesn’t have a cup, is 29, and plays a highly coveted position. Dude will have his choice of teams offering 7.5+ over 7 years.

Also I had edited my above post to give a bit more of my viewpoint.

And why would Pionk choose SJ?

I think we just vastly disagree on team building which is fine. Personally I don’t care at all about dumping every single non core piece on this team if we are getting a piece that could be a part of this core going forward. Core pieces to me at this moment are Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson, and Askarov. Everyone else? I’ll move them for a piece to add to that core easily.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Who cares? This is a guy that doesn’t have a cup, is 29, and plays a highly coveted position. Dude will have his choice of teams offering 7.5+ over 7 years.

Also I had edited my above post to give a bit more of my viewpoint.

Neither does Dobson and he’s not a surefire #1 and you want to trade assets and give him 8 years. He may be younger but he’s less of a reliable player than Pionk and comes at a significantly lower cost that allows us to use those extra picks on the prospect pool or finding a 2C in the trade market if free agency isn’t in the cards for the Sharks. We’ll see.

 

[Gecklund]

Neither does Dobson and he’s not a surefire #1 and you want to trade assets and give him 8 years. He may be younger but he’s less of a reliable player than Pionk and comes at a significantly lower cost that allows us to use those extra picks on the prospect pool or finding a 2C in the trade market if free agency isn’t in the cards for the Sharks. We’ll see.

I mean Dobson is a better dman than Pionk and it’s not close. Maybe we disagree on Dobson’s true value. I think NYI is one of those teams that their players look worse than they actually are cause their system sucks and has for years. I think Dobson is a true top pair RHD already and is only 25 I believe. I think in the right environment he could be a PPG guy that isn’t a defensive liability.

 

[Lebanezer]

I wonder if Sasha Chmeleveski has any interest in coming back to the Sharks. He's done well in the KHL. Sharks have his rights until he turns 27.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I mean Dobson is a better dman than Pionk and it’s not close. Maybe we disagree on Dobson’s true value. I think NYI is one of those teams that their players look worse than they actually are cause their system sucks and has for years. I think Dobson is a true top pair RHD already and is only 25 I believe. I think in the right environment he could be a PPG guy that isn’t a defensive liability.

Being better is fine. It doesn’t mean he’s going to be the better value contract compared to Pionk on their next contracts and also worth the acquisition cost. I don’t think either are dependable top pairing defensemen but they are fine while we develop more. Pionk is more likely to be tradeable down the road. Dobson has a higher chance of being more difficult to move when we’d like to move on.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I wonder if Sasha Chmeleveski has any interest in coming back to the Sharks. He's done well in the KHL. Sharks have his rights until he turns 27.

Seems unlikely:

1) He's at best a bottom-6 player, and the Sharks already have too much of that
2) He'll want a "guarantee" of NHL time, and the Sharks won't give that
3) Insert third thing here

 

[mogambomoroo]

The only thing I know is that I don't want to be MG right now, he has a TON of things to do this summer and with the cap space going up it's gonna be harder to convince good FA's to sign here without ruining the cap space in the long run. (Getting secondary pieces with expensive contracts + term)
If he can sign couple of expensive 2-year contracts, It will be fine.
That's why having a good trade or two can make a big difference this offseason.

The way I see it, trade wise MG still needs to be on Dobson/Byram even if he drafts Schaefer. It's better to have multiple options at D going forward. If he can get Dobson, it looks better for the LD logjam that we have. If it's Byram, I wouldn't mind using him on the right side if he can take that role.

A lot of things need to be addressed, but D should be focus number 1 by a country mile.

 

[Grinner]

The only thing I know is that I don't want to be MG right now, he has a TON of things to do this summer and with the cap space going up it's gonna be harder to convince good FA's to sign here without ruining the cap space in the long run. (Getting secondary pieces with expensive contracts + term)
If he can sign couple of expensive 2-year contracts, It will be fine.
That's why having a good trade or two can make a big difference this offseason.

The way I see it, trade wise MG still needs to be on Dobson/Byram even if he drafts Schaefer. It's better to have multiple options at D going forward. If he can get Dobson, it looks better for the LD logjam that we have. If it's Byram, I wouldn't mind using him on the right side if he can take that role.

A lot of things need to be addressed, but D should be focus number 1 by a country mile.

Address what ever the need whenever possible. I don't want to see the Sharks over paying. Be that in salary or trade capital

 

[Star Platinum]

Seems unlikely:

1) He's at best a bottom-6 player, and the Sharks already have too much of that
2) He'll want a "guarantee" of NHL time, and the Sharks won't give that
3) Insert third thing here

Warsofsky hates players from the KHL

 

[sampler]

The only thing I know is that I don't want to be MG right now, he has a TON of things to do this summer and with the cap space going up it's gonna be harder to convince good FA's to sign here without ruining the cap space in the long run. (Getting secondary pieces with expensive contracts + term)
If he can sign couple of expensive 2-year contracts, It will be fine.
That's why having a good trade or two can make a big difference this offseason.

The way I see it, trade wise MG still needs to be on Dobson/Byram even if he drafts Schaefer. It's better to have multiple options at D going forward. If he can get Dobson, it looks better for the LD logjam that we have. If it's Byram, I wouldn't mind using him on the right side if he can take that role.

A lot of things need to be addressed, but D should be focus number 1 by a country mile.

Yep. Agreed in full. Gotta start buiding the D. You build a winner from the net out. Askarov is the future in net (if that fails, then alas). But even if they draft schaefer, they will only have 2 top end D prospects and as all the other D may hit, or may not. You need at least 4 very good D to be a solid team, so if two are homegrown, then you need to add two more from external.

I actually think that if your D and G is very good, it will make the forwards far more effective:
1. They can move the puck up quickly, helping in transition.
2. they are threats to score in the O zone, which forces defending teams to pressure the points opening more space down low in the O zone. Right now, the sharks have ZERO threat to score from D, so teams can collapse making it functionally 3 on 5 in the O zone.
3. The PP might actually do something.
4. They can win battles defensively and break up opposition cycles...
5. It builds trust that you can make a mistake and its not the end of the world.

I actually think the key to success for our small army of promising forward prospects is to build a very good D and G behind them and let them play well supported.

 

[Gecklund]

Anyone have a brief summary of the Isaac Howard situation? Seemed like he was signing and then suddenly he was going back to school and now he’s all over the trade boards. I know his rights expire August 2026 but feels weird for him to be traded. If he is I’d love the Sharks to take a shot at acquiring him. He’s definitely smaller (5’11, 190) but he’s got some elite level skill.

 

[Patty Ice]

Anyone have a brief summary of the Isaac Howard situation? Seemed like he was signing and then suddenly he was going back to school and now he’s all over the trade boards. I know his rights expire August 2026 but feels weird for him to be traded. If he is I’d love the Sharks to take a shot at acquiring him. He’s definitely smaller (5’11, 190) but he’s got some elite level skill.

Always been a fan of his. He was a guy I was hoping they would draft when they traded down in 2022.

We've picked up a few guys like him since then so I'm not sure we need to target him unless for pennies on the dollar.