Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Pinkfloyd]

I would say be careful what you wish for, but I also know more than a few here are wishing for the team to be as bad as humanly possible for the next couple years, so I guess we’ll just have to see.

I don't look at it as a means to make them as bad as humanly possible. I look at it as a means to get the guys we're building around experience so that they get better quicker than by slowplaying them when it doesn't seem necessary.

 

[Cas]

What? Probably because their parents don’t want them living alone at this point. Plus they’re good people for them to talk to. However, Celebrini and Smith are who they are as players because of what they’ve learned and practiced and experienced themselves. Maybe Granlund, Thornton and Marleau share the occasional nugget, but their mentorship has minimal effect.

Bingo - stars are who they make themselves, not because they get generic advice from former stars.

Besides, Celebrini and Smith probably can't afford rent on their own in the Bay Area right now. Fortunately, the cap is going up and that'll help them afford a first-and-last deposit in a couple of years.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Besides, Celebrini and Smith probably can't afford rent on their own in the Bay Area right now. Fortunately, the cap is going up and that'll help them afford a first-and-last deposit in a couple of years.

I can't tell with you...are you being tongue-in-cheek?

How do all the AHL players afford it?

 

[one2gamble]

I can't tell with you...are you being tongue-in-cheek?

How do all the AHL players afford it?

They literally share apartments two to a room like college kids!

 

[Patty Ice]

I can't tell with you...are you being tongue-in-cheek?

How do all the AHL players afford it?

They cram themselves together in one small space like other migrants.

 

[OrrNumber4]

They cram themselves together in one small space like other migrants.

That's a ridiculous comparison. Moreover, Celebrini and Smith are making nearly 1 million USD. Even after taxes/fees/lifestyle expenses that's more than enough for rent!

 

[Patty Ice]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Moreover, Celebrini and Smith are making nearly 1 million USD. Even after taxes/fees/lifestyle expenses that's more than enough for rent!

It's called hyperbole.

 

[hohosaregood]

I remember Bordeleau rẻ-signing and his AHL salary is like $80k. Idk why he agreed to that.

 

[Star Platinum]

I think it’s just a commentary on how overstated mentoring can be for super talented young players.

I think young players need good players to play with. I think Bedard is suffering in Chicago due to lack of them. But it doesn't need to be any specific good player and in the case of defensemen, what they really need is someone who is steady and responsible. For forwards, you do want guys who complement their game.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm glad we got Walman for free, but this recent stretch of games has really revealed why he got dumped from DET. I'd definitely be interested in moving him.

I still have a weird feeling we’re getting K’Andre Miller.

I like Miller. I think in the right environment (aka one like ours where full effort and compete are prioritized, he can succeed. I think he's an extremely good athlete that sometimes takes shifts or plays off, resting on his athleticism to get the job done, and then gets beat by guys who are just trying harder.

If we can get a version of Miller who is all compete all the time - something a trade might awaken in a maturing 25yo - we'd be in a good spot.

I can't tell with you...are you being tongue-in-cheek?

How do all the AHL players afford it?

It's old, but Sheng wrote an article about how miserable the Cuda living situations were and how those things are a consideration for players when choosing teams. The Rent Is Too Damn High: How the Barracuda deal with the high cost of living in San Jose

 

[hohosaregood]

I think young players need good players to play with. I think Bedard is suffering in Chicago due to lack of them. But it doesn't need to be any specific good player and in the case of defensemen, what they really need is someone who is steady and responsible. For forwards, you do want guys who complement their game.

I don't really get this one. Chicago had a better set of veterans and journeyman than we did coming into the season. Like Jones, Teravainen, Hall, Bertuzzi, Donato, and Mikheyev are pretty solid players. I don't really know the nuances of their games so maybe they just all suck at puck retrieval or something but at first blush, it's at least as good as the additions Grier made last off-season.

 

[Grinner]

I'm glad we got Walman for free, but this recent stretch of games has really revealed why he got dumped from DET. I'd definitely be interested in moving him.

I like Miller. I think in the right environment (aka one like ours where full effort and compete are prioritized, he can succeed. I think he's an extremely good athlete that sometimes takes shifts or plays off, resting on his athleticism to get the job done, and then gets beat by guys who are just trying harder.

If we can get a version of Miller who is all compete all the time - something a trade might awaken in a maturing 25yo - we'd be in a good spot.

It's old, but Sheng wrote an article about how miserable the Cuda living situations were and how those things are a consideration for players when choosing teams. The Rent Is Too Damn High: How the Barracuda deal with the high cost of living in San Jose

No to Miller. He could have displayed those traits regardless of where he was playing. There's no magical switch

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't really get this one. Chicago had a better set of veterans and journeyman than we did coming into the season. Like Jones, Teravainen, Hall, Bertuzzi, Donato, and Mikheyev are pretty solid players. I don't really know the nuances of their games so maybe they just all suck at puck retrieval or something but at first blush, it's at least as good as the additions Grier made last off-season.

I think it's just a matter of not getting the right talent around Bedard yet. If they end up with Misa out of this draft, I think they'll reach another level competitively.

 

[Cas]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Moreover, Celebrini and Smith are making nearly 1 million USD. Even after taxes/fees/lifestyle expenses that's more than enough for rent!

So just enough for a bedroom with an attached bath and access to a hotplate?

I remember Bordeleau rẻ-signing and his AHL salary is like $80k. Idk why he agreed to that.

He didn't have much of a choice, save to go to Europe.

 

[tiburon12]

No to Miller. He could have displayed those traits regardless of where he was playing. There's no magical switch

The magical switch might be him finding out his job security is shrinking. Nothing like money, or lack of, as a motivator

 

[Grinner]

The magical switch might be him finding out his job security is shrinking. Nothing like money, or lack of, as a motivator

And what happens once he gets his new contract? It's not like he's going to want some short term, low wage prove it contract

 

[gaucholoco3]

Small sample size, but Mukhamadullin has looked good playing on the right with Ferraro the last two games. Both kind of quietly solid together, dominating in shot attempts and such.

I don't love the idea of playing a young defenseman on his off side with regularity, but maybe this is something that can work going into next year. It creates an opportunity to have Ferraro, Walman, Mukh, and Dickinson/Schafer in the lineup together, and then make a couple additions for the right side. Then you can explore trading Walman and/or Ferraro next year at the deadline, depending on how things are going and if either of them is looking like someone worth locking up for a few more years.

I was all for trading Ferraro. That was when it looked like Walman, Ferraro, and Thrun would all be played over Muk, with all 3 under contract next season. As long as Muk has a consistent NHL role I’m fine keeping Walman and Ferraro. Muk has the skating to be effective on his off side and if Ferraro is a good partner for him with his physicality then I’m all for running that as the second pairing the rest of this year. Ideally it will be a 3rd pairing but that would require 3 new top 4 D.

 

[Hodge]

League 5v5 xGF% standings since the Granlund+Ceci trade lol....

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

League 5v5 xGF% standings since the Granlund+Ceci trade lol....

View attachment 985742

Mandatory that this be shown to anybody who suggests we sign Ceci in UFA.

 

[STL Shark]

I think there's a pretty clear argument that it does. Granlund's departure coincides with an increase in Smith's ice time and improvement. It can happen with Ferraro and Mukhamadullin or whoever gets brought up in his place. I think it's virtually impossible for none of the kids on the blue line to make it. But regardless of the scenario's end result, Ferraro isn't making it better nor likely to assist in the development of those players nor playing at a caliber to compensate for that to allow the team to compete with a rookie goalie. We're not getting any value out of keeping Ferraro. I just don't see it.

Smith's ice time hasn't really changed from the final month of Granlund's time here and the first month of his time in Dallas. Taking out the outlier game in Minnesota where Smith played 9 mins, he was averaging 16:03 mins a night from Christmas to 1/30 (Granlund dealt on 2/1). Since then, he's playing 16:34 a night.

So he's getting maybe 1 extra shift a game right now, but we've literally lost every game and played 3 OT games in that stretch so probably skews the numbers a bit on that 1 extra shift per game difference in a small sample size.

That said, I don't think that it is representative to compare Granlund/Smith effect to Ferraro/Dickinson/Other effect because the positions are different. I agree with your assessment that I don't think having Ferraro makes one of the youngsters markedly better. If anything, it makes improving the defense overall harder because it's a spot you're not upgrading or replacing with a better UFA/Trade option.

 

[Hodge]

Mandatory that this be shown to anybody who suggests we sign Ceci in UFA.

In fairness to Ceci his replacement Thrun has a 42% on-ice xGF in the games since the trade. Celebrini is over 64% as the bonafide 1C.

 

[STL Shark]

I don't really get this one. Chicago had a better set of veterans and journeyman than we did coming into the season. Like Jones, Teravainen, Hall, Bertuzzi, Donato, and Mikheyev are pretty solid players. I don't really know the nuances of their games so maybe they just all suck at puck retrieval or something but at first blush, it's at least as good as the additions Grier made last off-season.

None of them are leaders. Everyone but Teuvo has been passed around the league like a game of hot potato throughout their careers and never been winners. Most of those guys are focused on trying to get their own games situated to stay in the league as opposed to being focused on mentoring and leading. Put another way, they're more Mike Hoffman than Mikael Granlund.