Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

They should trade Ferraro because no team needs 6 bottom pair defensemen

Frankly, Mario is the only one currently playing at a middle pairing level, so giving that up when you basically have to rebuild the entire defence would be taking another step backwards.

 

[Star Platinum]

Frankly, Mario is the only one currently playing at a middle pairing level, so giving that up when you basically have to rebuild the entire defence would be taking another step backwards.

The Sharks have a glut of bad left-handed defenseman and as many as three left-handed prospects to fit in over the next couple of years plus Mukhamadullin who is probably here to stay for the immediate future. Nobody's going to trade anything for Thrun, but Walman and Ferraro probably have some value as bottom pairing defenseman to another team which is what they are. They should cash in that value. Neither of them are ever going to be worth more in trade then they are right now.

 

[TheBeard]

The Sharks have a glut of bad left-handed defenseman and as many as three left-handed prospects to fit in over the next couple of years plus Mukhamadullin who is probably here to stay for the immediate future. Nobody's going to trade anything for Thrun, but Walman and Ferraro probably have some value as bottom pairing defenseman to another team which is what they are. They should cash in that value. Neither of them are ever going to be worth more in trade then they are right now.

Mario has another year left. His price tag as a rental next deadline will be pretty much the same if not more than it is now, not to mention another year of letting him be a stabilizing presence on the backend and just being a good off-ice presence for the kids where our only other legit D-men were either traded (Ceci) or taken a massive step back (Walman).It's not like he's preventing the team from winning if that's the concern for all those "tank at all costs" people. Vlasic and Thrun are probably both gone next season and beyond Walman and Ferraro it's an absolute black hole of uncertainty there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Frankly, Mario is the only one currently playing at a middle pairing level, so giving that up when you basically have to rebuild the entire defence would be taking another step backwards.

I largely agree with his level of play but if things play out to where Mukhamadullin finishes this season proving that he belongs, we win the Schaefer lottery, and Dickinson is ready to graduate, Ferraro should probably be moved for value. We still are in a position where taking a step backwards to rebuild should be on the table if it's for the greater good and it is quite possible that would be the case.

 

[TheBeard]

I largely agree with his level of play but if things play out to where Mukhamadullin finishes this season proving that he belongs, we win the Schaefer lottery, and Dickinson is ready to graduate, Ferraro should probably be moved for value. We still are in a position where taking a step backwards to rebuild should be on the table if it's for the greater good and it is quite possible that would be the case.

Waaayyyyy too many "ifs" to sacrifice what Mario brings for what, a late 2nd that you can still get next year at this time. What you're proposing is a left side with either two teenagers and either Walman or Shakir playing in front of a rookie goaltender with even less on the right side. There will always be a market for Mario next year at any time of the year so there is absolutely no reason to trade him now. None. There is no "striking while the iron's hot".

This team should absolutely not be taking any steps backwards next year. You can't sell two consecutive seasons of finishing last followed by a "step backwards".

 

[Cas]

I don't think Ferraro is playing at a middle pairing level, nor do I believe he is a stabilizing presence.

 

[Hodge]

Ferraro is the only defenseman we have who wouldn't look out of place on a contender's blueline.

Thrun, Walman and Liljegren playing their current roles are the biggest problems with this roster outside of Georgiev. Replace those three with Ferraro-level defenders or better and a lot of these close losses will start flipping to wins.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Waaayyyyy too many "ifs" to sacrifice what Mario brings for what, a late 2nd that you can still get next year at this time. What you're proposing is a left side with either two teenagers and either Walman or Shakir playing in front of a rookie goaltender with even less on the right side. There will always be a market for Mario next year at any time of the year so there is absolutely no reason to trade him now. None. There is no "striking while the iron's hot".

This team should absolutely not be taking any steps backwards next year. You can't sell two consecutive seasons of finishing last followed by a "step backwards".

I think you're overvaluing whatever you think we'd be sacrificing by moving Ferraro. Even with his elevated level of play at this point, what is he bringing to the table for the team? The PK is not good. The defense is marginally improved but how much of that is attributable to Ferraro and not the goaltending when we had it with Blackwood or Askarov? He's only played sparingly with developing defensemen at this stage. Most of his time is spent with Liljegren who has not at all elevated his play with him followed by Rutta who was not good with him and may not return anything at this stage. And just as importantly, what is he bringing to the team for next season? He's not likely to partner with someone we're developing because they all play his side.

We're probably finishing last for two consecutive seasons...all done with Ferraro eating most of the minutes. Any step backwards is a risk we're taking with or without Ferraro. The proposed left side of Schaefer-Mukhamdullin-Dickinson has a lot more upswing potential than whoever of those two you'd slow play to keep Ferraro and the nobody on the right side we'd likely bring in for next season. We've already seen how mediocre the pairing of Ferraro and Liljegren is. If we're acquiring RHD's, they are probably proven players to partner with someone like Mukhamadullin most likely. Those guys being what you think Ferraro is will be a reason to let Ferraro go and turn the page. Even in everyone's best case scenario for the offseason, the risk for taking a step backwards will remain. That's just the nature of a rebuilding squad.

 

[TheBeard]

I think you're overvaluing whatever you think we'd be sacrificing by moving Ferraro. Even with his elevated level of play at this point, what is he bringing to the table for the team? The PK is not good. The defense is marginally improved but how much of that is attributable to Ferraro and not the goaltending when we had it with Blackwood or Askarov? He's only played sparingly with developing defensemen at this stage. Most of his time is spent with Liljegren who has not at all elevated his play with him followed by Rutta who was not good with him and may not return anything at this stage. And just as importantly, what is he bringing to the team for next season? He's not likely to partner with someone we're developing because they all play his side.

We're probably finishing last for two consecutive seasons...all done with Ferraro eating most of the minutes. Any step backwards is a risk we're taking with or without Ferraro. The proposed left side of Schaefer-Mukhamdullin-Dickinson has a lot more upswing potential than whoever of those two you'd slow play to keep Ferraro and the nobody on the right side we'd likely bring in for next season. We've already seen how mediocre the pairing of Ferraro and Liljegren is. If we're acquiring RHD's, they are probably proven players to partner with someone like Mukhamadullin most likely. Those guys being what you think Ferraro is will be a reason to let Ferraro go and turn the page. Even in everyone's best case scenario for the offseason, the risk for taking a step backwards will remain. That's just the nature of a rebuilding squad.

So we want to preach patience on the rebuild but also throw out essentially three rookies, two being teenagers, on the entire left side.

Makes sense to me.

This defense is miles better than it was last year. Miles. The reason it doesn’t seem that way to some is because the goaltending we’re getting this year isn’t what it was last year.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So we want to preach patience on the rebuild but also throw out essentially three rookies, two being teenagers, on the entire left side.

Makes sense to me.

We already threw out two teenage rookies this season. Rebuilding an entire blue line likely requires more than one offseason to accomplish to the point of being competitive. Being patient in a rebuild is allowing the inexperienced players you're building around to get that experience. It's not worrying about showing improvement with team results. That should happen naturally through this method anyway and we're taking this risk regardless in large part because we're going with a rookie goalie next season. I just don't see how Ferraro mitigates that risk in any real way.

 

[TheBeard]

We already threw out two teenage rookies this season. Rebuilding an entire blue line likely requires more than one offseason to accomplish to the point of being competitive. Being patient in a rebuild is allowing the inexperienced players you're building around to get that experience. It's not worrying about showing improvement with team results. That should happen naturally through this method anyway and we're taking this risk regardless in large part because we're going with a rookie goalie next season. I just don't see how Ferraro mitigates that risk in any real way.

Thompson are Mukh are 23 years old. They’re 5 years older than Schaffer and 4 older than Dick.

Sam is gonna need a season in the A before he makes the club which unfortunately can’t happen until he’s 20. Ruuta, Vlasic, Thrun, Liljigren may all be gone this offseason. No one should feel confident in Walman’s game being what it was at the beginning. Moving Ferraro just to nab the 58th pick when we have a thousand other prospects we don’t know about just doesn’t seem logical to me. Bringing in other d-man will ultimately end up being guys not nearly as good and will want more money and term. Trade Mario at next year’s deadline when there’s a little more clarity. Essentially you’re saying rebuilding a blue line takes more than one offseason but chances are we’re gonna be moving on from 4, possibly 5 in a single one. Not ideal when we have a rookie goalie and a severe lack of depth up front.

 

[hohosaregood]

I don't think Ferraro is playing at a middle pairing level, nor do I believe he is a stabilizing presence.

The main thing for me is that he seems to be a good partner for Mukh. It's simple to say that he's easily replaceable but I don't want us to go through the experiment of finding a new partner if we don't need to.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I've had problems with Ferraro in the past, but he's playing at a solid level right now and has been for the past couple of months. If you can get a good price for him, go for it, but I don't think it's an immediate concern.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thompson are Mukh are 23 years old. They’re 5 years older than Schaffer and 4 older than Dick.

Sam is gonna need a season in the A before he makes the club which unfortunately can’t happen until he’s 20. Ruuta, Vlasic, Thrun, Liljigren may all be gone this offseason. No one should feel confident in Walman’s game being what it was at the beginning. Moving Ferraro just to nab the 58th pick when we have a thousand other prospects we don’t know about just doesn’t seem logical to me. Bringing in other d-man will ultimately end up being guys not nearly as good and will want more money and term. Trade Mario at next year’s deadline when there’s a little more clarity. Essentially you’re saying rebuilding a blue line takes more than one offseason but chances are we’re gonna be moving on from 4, possibly 5 in a single one. Not ideal when we have a rookie goalie and a severe lack of depth up front.

When it comes to Sam, we just don't know that. A combination of factors may make it to where the best path forward for him and the long term future of the team is to play him next season as a 19 year old rookie similarly to how we played Will Smith. When it comes to Ferraro, I just don't see what value he brings to next year's team and how he assuages any sort of risk that is going to be taken regardless of the moves made. If we're trying to make the improvements necessary to see better team results, Grier is probably going to have to choose between moving one of Ferraro and Walman in the offseason. External options on the right side are limited and will not likely be sufficient on their own. The team will need an improvement on limited players like Ferraro and Walman to have a chance to take the next step you seek.

There is no ideal scenario in front of a rookie goalie and severe lack of depth up front that Ferraro mitigates in any real way. We stand to get better quicker by letting players with more talent and potential get their experience.

 

[TheBeard]

When it comes to Sam, we just don't know that. A combination of factors may make it to where the best path forward for him and the long term future of the team is to play him next season as a 19 year old rookie similarly to how we played Will Smith. When it comes to Ferraro, I just don't see what value he brings to next year's team and how he assuages any sort of risk that is going to be taken regardless of the moves made. If we're trying to make the improvements necessary to see better team results, Grier is probably going to have to choose between moving one of Ferraro and Walman in the offseason. External options on the right side are limited and will not likely be sufficient on their own. The team will need an improvement on limited players like Ferraro and Walman to have a chance to take the next step you seek.

There is no ideal scenario in front of a rookie goalie and severe lack of depth up front that Ferraro mitigates in any real way. We stand to get better quicker by letting players with more talent and potential get their experience.

Ferraro by himself? No, but like Granlund, weakening an already thin position doesn’t really help the development of kids. There’s a good chance that virtually none of the kids were banking on for the blue line actually make it next year. that would have a huge impact on the entire lineup. It just doesn’t seem worth it.

 

[Jargon]

I still have a weird feeling we’re getting K’Andre Miller.

 

[timorous me]

Small sample size, but Mukhamadullin has looked good playing on the right with Ferraro the last two games. Both kind of quietly solid together, dominating in shot attempts and such.

I don't love the idea of playing a young defenseman on his off side with regularity, but maybe this is something that can work going into next year. It creates an opportunity to have Ferraro, Walman, Mukh, and Dickinson/Schafer in the lineup together, and then make a couple additions for the right side. Then you can explore trading Walman and/or Ferraro next year at the deadline, depending on how things are going and if either of them is looking like someone worth locking up for a few more years.

 

[timorous me]

I still have a weird feeling we’re getting K’Andre Miller.

I don't really see it happening. From what I can tell, the Rangers still like him, they see him as a future first or second pairing left D, and they have more flexibility to sign him long-term now.

This down year he's having certainly has thrown things for a loop, but in some ways it might make it easier for them to figure out a contract solution for next year.

 

[Star Platinum]

Ferraro by himself? No, but like Granlund, weakening an already thin position doesn’t really help the development of kids. There’s a good chance that virtually none of the kids were banking on for the blue line actually make it next year. that would have a huge impact on the entire lineup. It just doesn’t seem worth it.

As we've seen, the idea that Granlund was necessary for Smith to continue to develop was not true.

We do need dependable veteran defenders, but we need them to be better players than Ferraro.

 

[TheBeard]

As we've seen, the idea that Granlund was necessary for Smith to continue to develop was not true.

We do need dependable veteran defenders, but we need them to be better players than Ferraro.

Again, it’s not Ferraro that needs replacing this offseason, it’s Vlasic, Ruuta, Thrun, Liljigren, hell, even Walman.

Also, i dont remember saying anything about granlund being vital to Smith’s development.

 

[Lebanezer]

Again, it’s not Ferraro that needs replacing this offseason, it’s Vlasic, Ruuta, Thrun, Liljigren, hell, even Walman.

Also, i dont remember saying anything about granlund being vital to Smith’s development.

I think it’s just a commentary on how overstated mentoring can be for super talented young players.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ferraro by himself? No, but like Granlund, weakening an already thin position doesn’t really help the development of kids. There’s a good chance that virtually none of the kids were banking on for the blue line actually make it next year. that would have a huge impact on the entire lineup. It just doesn’t seem worth it.

I think there's a pretty clear argument that it does. Granlund's departure coincides with an increase in Smith's ice time and improvement. It can happen with Ferraro and Mukhamadullin or whoever gets brought up in his place. I think it's virtually impossible for none of the kids on the blue line to make it. But regardless of the scenario's end result, Ferraro isn't making it better nor likely to assist in the development of those players nor playing at a caliber to compensate for that to allow the team to compete with a rookie goalie. We're not getting any value out of keeping Ferraro. I just don't see it.

 

[TheBeard]

I think it’s just a commentary on how overstated mentoring can be for super talented young players.

Then why are smith and Celebrini staying with Marleau and Thornton?

I think there's a pretty clear argument that it does. Granlund's departure coincides with an increase in Smith's ice time and improvement. It can happen with Ferraro and Mukhamadullin or whoever gets brought up in his place. I think it's virtually impossible for none of the kids on the blue line to make it. But regardless of the scenario's end result, Ferraro isn't making it better nor likely to assist in the development of those players nor playing at a caliber to compensate for that to allow the team to compete with a rookie goalie. We're not getting any value out of keeping Ferraro. I just don't see it.

I would say be careful what you wish for, but I also know more than a few here are wishing for the team to be as bad as humanly possible for the next couple years, so I guess we’ll just have to see.

 

[ChompChomp]

I still have a weird feeling we’re getting K’Andre Miller.

I mean, NYR still owes us a favor for taking Goodrow off their hands, and we (apparently?) passed on getting into the Kappo Kakko sweepstakes...

 

[Lebanezer]

Then why are smith and Celebrini staying with Marleau and Thornton?

What? Probably because their parents don’t want them living alone at this point. Plus they’re good people for them to talk to. However, Celebrini and Smith are who they are as players because of what they’ve learned and practiced and experienced themselves. Maybe Granlund, Thornton and Marleau share the occasional nugget, but their mentorship has minimal effect.