Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Meier is only on pace for like 25 goals. Another guy Grier unequivocally sold at peak value.

Not too hard to sell at peak value when all of your assets are deprecating. But he did do a great job.

 

[ChompChomp]

For those interested in Noah Dobson. I can't remember who on this forum was saying that he was a good two-way D

I couldn't remember either, so I looked it up. This is from August 2024, in this thread. Oh how the mighty Dobson has fallen lol. (I know Carlson and Letang are offensive defensemen, I just find it interesting how much your stock in him has fallen.)

I would argue that Noah Dobson is as good as John Carlson and Kris Letang on their respective championship teams.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I couldn't remember either, so I looked it up. This is from August 2024, in this thread. Oh how the mighty Dobson has fallen lol. (I know Carlson and Letang are offensive defensemen, I just find it interesting how much your stock in him has fallen.)

Because he was that good offensively last season. I have never been high on him defensively, and I also have never been a big fan of Carlson or Letang and considered them low-end 1D's at the time of their championships...

 

[Juxtaposer]

Noah Dobson is extremely mediocre defensively[...]

And here's my post from 10/11/24 (it was @weastern bias who called Dobson a high-end two-way D )

 

[karltonian]

Burns retreat if he wins a cup in Carolina would be sick. I’d give him literally any amount of money on a 1 year deal.

Then he can play wing with Celebrini

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Personally, I think Bystedt is comically overrated on this forum, both in terms of his future value to the team and his potential trade value. They're not going to trade their former #2 overall pick for a 3rd line C AHL prospect when they can get some other team's 3rd line center for peanuts.

While I wouldn’t say a Bystedt is as valuable as a Nemec straight up; I think 2 way centers with size and some offense are pretty hard currency in NHL GM circles.

Just look at Edstrom. As far as I understand, Vegas drafted him with no plans he would ever make their NHL roster, instead viewing him as a highly trade-able asset which they used to get Hertl. As we know Edstrom was traded again, by Grier, to get Askarov.

I think an argument could be made that a Hertl type to a perennial cup contender in all out win-now mode, the top goaltending prospect not currently in the NHL, and D+3 RD prospect with high pedigree but little NHL ice-time, might all have similar-ish trade value; and at the very least a Bystedt/Edstrom type prospect could be a viable piece of the package used to get that asset.

 

[Sharksfan66]

To add on to that, some potential trade targets on defense who might get moved in the offseason:

Top pair: Dobson, Miller, Byram, Power, Hamilton*, Faulk*, Andersson*
Top 4: Kesselring, Ristolainen, Cernak*, Marino*
Bottom pair: Whitecloud, Hague, TvR

* have some sort of trade protection. VGK guys would probably be top 4 if not top pair on the Sharks.

Devils fans on the main board say Hamilton is cooked.

I'm hoping Grier goes all in to get Ekblad this summer. Would be a great mentor for Dickinson and would push all our D into more favorable positions. ++ from all we heard about the lockerroom culture in Florida last year, it could be amazing to bring in a major player from that team to help form that sort of thing here. Could be a Blake-eque acquisition 2.0

 

[Hodge]

Devils fans on the main board say Hamilton is cooked.

I'm hoping Grier goes all in to get Ekblad this summer. Would be a great mentor for Dickinson and would push all our D into more favorable positions. ++ from all we heard about the lockerroom culture in Florida last year, it could be amazing to bring in a major player from that team to help form that sort of thing here. Could be a Blake-eque acquisition 2.0

Ekblad would be awesome but I'm sure contenders will offer him just as much money if not more than we can.

If we can't sign Ekblad or Kovacevic, I think trading for Whitecloud makes the most sense. He's on a great contract, can't block a trade to the Sharks and has experience playing top 4 minutes even though he's been crowded out since the Knights acquired Hanifin.

Walman-Whitecloud
Ferraro-Burns
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Thrun

Still a bottom of the league defense but at least we'd have two credible 2nd pairs and an above-average 3rd.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

I think an argument could be made that a Hertl type to a perennial cup contender in all out win-now mode, the top goaltending prospect not currently in the NHL, and D+3 RD prospect with high pedigree but little NHL ice-time, might all have similar-ish trade value; and at the very least a Bystedt/Edstrom type prospect could be a viable piece of the package used to get that asset.

while true, you are neglecting that 1st round pick that was dealt alongside Edstrom for both Hertl and Askarov, that is also no longer available to use with Bystedt.

So assuming GMs value the VGK 1st at 26-28, what comparable prospects do we have? I feel like Musty is more valuable (in the mid teens for a 1st) and Halts is too low (still a 2nd round value) That leaves Bystedt, Muhk, Cherynshov roughly as the only 3 that can replace that value.

Obviously they dealt Muhk themselves and tbh i think hes the least valuable of the 3, and Bystedt is already in the deal. So would you do Bystedt + Cherynshov for Nemac? Or better yet, would they?

 

[weastern bias]

And here's my post from 10/11/24 (it was @weastern bias who called Dobson a high-end two-way D )

You literally like Brent Burns

 

[Juxtaposer]

You literally like Brent Burns

I do!

 

[Star Platinum]

While I wouldn’t say a Bystedt is as valuable as a Nemec straight up; I think 2 way centers with size and some offense are pretty hard currency in NHL GM circles.

Just look at Edstrom. As far as I understand, Vegas drafted him with no plans he would ever make their NHL roster, instead viewing him as a highly trade-able asset which they used to get Hertl. As we know Edstrom was traded again, by Grier, to get Askarov.

I think an argument could be made that a Hertl type to a perennial cup contender in all out win-now mode, the top goaltending prospect not currently in the NHL, and D+3 RD prospect with high pedigree but little NHL ice-time, might all have similar-ish trade value; and at the very least a Bystedt/Edstrom type prospect could be a viable piece of the package used to get that asset.

In the case of the Askarov trade, there are a couple of things to consider (my opinion only). First, I would say the first round pick was considered the most valuable part of the trade to Nashville with Edstrom the second most valuable. The other is that Nashville put themselves in a position where they were a bit under the gun to get a deal done. I think the perception across the league when that deal hit was that we got him cheaper than was expected.

The reason I think Bystedt is probably overrated is that at the NHL level, he's probably not gonna score a lot (and I will freely admit this is pure boxscore watching - I don't watch AHL games). Right now he's at 19 points in 31 games (0.61 PPG) at age 20. For a comparison, Ty Dellandrea at age 21 scored 50 points in 68 games for the Texas Stars (0.75 PPG). On a bad team with not much complementary talent supporting him when he does play, Dellandrea is at 4 points in 37 games.

His size adds intrigue to what he might be as an NHL player someday, but really only as a defender or someone taking up space in front of the net. I think his biggest selling point is that if he is an NHL quality bottom 6 forward, you're paying him a lot less than you're paying guys like Kunin and Goodrow so that you have more cap space to spend elsewhere. And for a team like New Jersey that's sitting 2nd in their division, they're gonna want guys that are ready to help immediately.

 

[matt trick]

Trouble continues in Vancouver with rumours of Demko wanting out. Lainkinen has been solid for them.

One year $5M contract that Vancouver could better invest elsehwere. Given the teams success of rehabbing goalies, I wouldn't mind taking a shot at Demko for cheap provided 1) he'll be reasonably healthy 2) he's not an ass in the room. Provided the above, having a guy you can trust for 35-40 games in a platoon role on a one year contract could be a good way to steal another 2nd.

Lot of teams need goaltending (Detroit, Carolina, Edmonton), but if they're not confident they can rehab him by the start of the season,I think it could be a good bet for the Sharks. Looking around the NHL, don't see too many better options for a one-year option.

It's a shame Jarry has 3 years left, if it was 2 I'd be open to bailing Pittsburgh out for their first. Can't have $6M in wasted cap the year Celebrini, Smith, and Askarov get their new deals.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

In the case of the Askarov trade, there are a couple of things to consider (my opinion only). First, I would say the first round pick was considered the most valuable part of the trade to Nashville with Edstrom the second most vulable. The other is that Nashville put themselves in a position where they were a bit under the gun to get a deal done. I think the perception across the league when that deal hit was that we got him cheaper than was expected.

The reason I think Bystedt is probably overrated is that at the NHL level, he's probably not gonna score a lot (and I will freely admit this is pure boxscore watching - I don't watch AHL games). Right now he's at 19 points in 31 games (0.61 PPG) at age 20. For a comparison, Ty Dellandrea at age 21 scored 50 points in 68 games for the Texas Stars (0.75 PPG). On a bad team with not much complementary talent supporting him when he does play, Dellandrea is at 4 points in 37 games.

His size adds intrigue to what he might be as an NHL player someday, but really only as a defender or someone taking up space in front of the net. I think his biggest selling point is that if he is an NHL quality bottom 6 forward, you're paying him a lot less than you're paying guys like Kunin and Goodrow so that you have more cap space to spend elsewhere. And for a team like New Jersey that's sitting 2nd in their division, they're gonna want guys that are ready to help immediately.

Said at the time sucks they didn't move Bystedt over Edstrom but that probably made the deal. I think Edstrom has a much better chance to become an NHLer even more now. But the Sharks got by far the best player in the deal so who cares in the end

Ceci is better than Klingberg so it'll be fun to watch the Oilers shart themselves again.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Ekblad would be awesome but I'm sure contenders will offer him just as much money if not more than we can.

Yes, but do they have palm trees outside their rinks?

 

[jMoneyBrah]

In the case of the Askarov trade, there are a couple of things to consider (my opinion only). First, I would say the first round pick was considered the most valuable part of the trade to Nashville with Edstrom the second most valuable. The other is that Nashville put themselves in a position where they were a bit under the gun to get a deal done. I think the perception across the league when that deal hit was that we got him cheaper than was expected.

The reason I think Bystedt is probably overrated is that at the NHL level, he's probably not gonna score a lot (and I will freely admit this is pure boxscore watching - I don't watch AHL games). Right now he's at 19 points in 31 games (0.61 PPG) at age 20. For a comparison, Ty Dellandrea at age 21 scored 50 points in 68 games for the Texas Stars (0.75 PPG). On a bad team with not much complementary talent supporting him when he does play, Dellandrea is at 4 points in 37 games.

His size adds intrigue to what he might be as an NHL player someday, but really only as a defender or someone taking up space in front of the net. I think his biggest selling point is that if he is an NHL quality bottom 6 forward, you're paying him a lot less than you're paying guys like Kunin and Goodrow so that you have more cap space to spend elsewhere. And for a team like New Jersey that's sitting 2nd in their division, they're gonna want guys that are ready to help immediately.

My pushback isn’t that Bystedt is the centerpiece, simply that there is a lot of precedence that his profile has tangible value around the league; and teams likely view that profile as someone who has a legit shot of turning into a solid (read: winning) 3C. As much as you might handwave the ease of acquiring a winning 3C, I don’t think it’s that easy at all, and a lot of teams would love to have a better option at 3C.

To clarify, I don’t view either Bystedt or Edstrom as surefire winning 3C. But I think both have that potential.

As far as Askarov’s situation in Nashville relative to this discussion; I’m under the impression that Nemec’s comments indicate things are quickly approaching a similar place to Askarov’s and Jiricek’s situations where the team that drafted them hasn’t really provided a real NHL look and isn’t broadcasting the player is in their future plans. Isn’t that the entire basis for why Nemec might be in play?

Also, I’m open to the possibility that I might be way off base and everything I wrote is a bunch of malarkey. It wouldn’t be the first time

 

[jMoneyBrah]

while true, you are neglecting that 1st round pick that was dealt alongside Edstrom for both Hertl and Askarov, that is also no longer available to use with Bystedt.

So assuming GMs value the VGK 1st at 26-28, what comparable prospects do we have? I feel like Musty is more valuable (in the mid teens for a 1st) and Halts is too low (still a 2nd round value) That leaves Bystedt, Muhk, Cherynshov roughly as the only 3 that can replace that value.

Obviously they dealt Muhk themselves and tbh i think hes the least valuable of the 3, and Bystedt is already in the deal. So would you do Bystedt + Cherynshov for Nemac? Or better yet, would they?

I didn’t neglect that because I’m not proffering that Bystedt alone is the centerpiece of the deal; simply an asset of real value among NHL GMs. I don’t know what a Sharks trade for Nemec looks like, or that we have the pieces, I simply contend it’s entirely reasonable that Bystedt could be part of a sensible package to acquire Nemec.

I’m not aware of Jersey’s needs (shit, I barely have a grasp on the Sharks needs and I watch every game), so I couldn’t really suggest anything with seriousness. For giggles, I see that some Devils fans on the trade board want a high level center prospect in return, I don’t think the Sharks have anything like that they’d consider trading. Maybe Granlund + Bystedt + something else? A center for their run this year and another they can develop. IDK, I’m not good at trade proposals.

 

[Star Platinum]

IDK, I’m not good at trade proposals.

I don't think most people are, usually because they're thinking from the perspective of what their team will receive while not really taking into account what the other team would want.

My take on New Jersey would be that they've got a good shot to do well in in the playoffs this year currently situated at tied for 2nd in the conference and 2nd in their division, so they're looking to add vets that can help them win this year. Granlund could potentially be attractive to them, but there would need to be something else added since Granlund would just be a rental.

 

[Jargon]

I don't think most people are, usually because they're thinking from the perspective of what their team will receive while not really taking into account what the other team would want.

My take on New Jersey would be that they've got a good shot to do well in in the playoffs this year currently situated at tied for 2nd in the conference and 2nd in their division, so they're looking to add vets that can help them win this year. Granlund could potentially be attractive to them, but there would need to be something else added since Granlund would just be a rental.

I think Granlund is perfect for them (they want middle 6 help, especially someone who can bounce around positions) but I don’t think they’d part with Nemec unless we add significantly, yeah. Maybe Granlund, Bystedt and like 2 2nds or something? It’s really hard to tell what he’s worth to them.

The likelier deal will be Granny for like a 2nd or, if they’re very desperate, their 1st.