Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

Not sure how reliable the source is but it looks like Eklund will be on Team Sweden for the 4 Nations https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/PKlqWYm2Rl

That's not an easy team to make. Eklund is a big part of our future.

 

[TheBeard]

Musty and Dickinson don’t belong in the same sentence. Dickinson is an actual elite prospect who we shouldn’t trade unless an established star is coming back the other way. Musty is in the Chernyshov/Halttunen/Bystedt tier of our pool as his draft position suggests.

I'd say Musty is slightly above the others, but I don't trust he'll reach the lofty expectations we've unfairly put on him. I think he's probably our most valuable realistic trade chip if we want to make any moves.

 

[Shark Finn]

Not sure how reliable the source is but it looks like Eklund will be on Team Sweden for the 4 Nations https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/PKlqWYm2Rl

As he should be! Can't wait to get to root against him!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd say Musty is slightly above the others, but I don't trust he'll reach the lofty expectations we've unfairly put on him. I think he's probably our most valuable realistic trade chip if we want to make any moves.

I agree but I'm pretty loose with winger prospects as the position seems like the easiest for our team to fill. We need cornerstone defensemen and if any of our prospect wingers can help pull in one, we shouldn't hesitate to include them.

 

[STL Shark]

Grier didn’t want to get into why the top San Jose Sharks prospect asked to be moved, saying it was between Musty’s camp and Sudbury, but stressed that he’d like the standoff to end, and soon.

“It’s not ideal. I think we’re trying to support Q as much as we can, but it’s definitely not an ideal situation for him to not be playing,” Grier said on Monday. “At the same time, we’ve kind of let the agent know that there needs to be a resolution to this thing here pretty quickly.”

This tells me it’s not management it’s Musty and this is coming from Grier so if something else was printed I’d love to see it, early reports I read was Musty wanted to heave because the Wolves weren’t going to be competitive and was trying to force a trade to a better team

It's been long discussed that Sudbury's style of play is not conducive to Musty getting better at what he needs to get better at to make the NHL. Every move Musty has made has been to try and make the NHL roster (including moving/staying in Canada this summer to train with better coaches rather than come home).

His leaving Sudbury was almost entirely to do with the Sharks basically telling him that what he's doing there in that system isn't helping him get closer to the NHL.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree but I'm pretty loose with winger prospects as the position seems like the easiest for our team to fill. We need cornerstone defensemen and if any of our prospect wingers can help pull in one, we shouldn't hesitate to include them.

I do wonder though if the only way we'll be able to actually move him is if he's in the NHL and producing. A team isn't going to move a coveted D prospect unless they're in win-now mode and need immediate help for the big squad. Jiricek may have been the only possibility although I wonder what Montreal is thinking regarding Reinbacher.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I do wonder though if the only way we'll be able to actually move him is if he's in the NHL and producing. A team isn't going to move a coveted D prospect unless they're in win-now mode and need immediate help for the big squad. Jiricek may have been the only possibility although I wonder what Montreal is thinking regarding Reinbacher.

We probably won't get a coveted D prospect. We'd probably get an established guy.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

It's been long discussed that Sudbury's style of play is not conducive to Musty getting better at what he needs to get better at to make the NHL. Every move Musty has made has been to try and make the NHL roster (including moving/staying in Canada this summer to train with better coaches rather than come home).

His leaving Sudbury was almost entirely to do with the Sharks basically telling him that what he's doing there in that system isn't helping him get closer to the NHL.

Yeah well Grier has said otherwise and it’s in print so unless you provide some kind of proof and not inclined to believe you

I do wonder though if the only way we'll be able to actually move him is if he's in the NHL and producing. A team isn't going to move a coveted D prospect unless they're in win-now mode and need immediate help for the big squad. Jiricek may have been the only possibility although I wonder what Montreal is thinking regarding Reinbacher.

Gotta catch a team that’s in perpetual rebuild like Detroit, buffalo or Ottawa who’s close to blowing it up again and starting over . So a Sieder for instance would be perfect, is it likely who knows but it’s worth shot

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah well Grier has said otherwise and it’s in print so unless you provide some kind of proof and not inclined to believe you


Gotta catch a team that’s in perpetual rebuild like Detroit, buffalo or Ottawa who’s close to blowing it up again and starting over . So a Sieder for instance would be perfect, is it likely who knows but it’s worth shot

Sieder would be great, but i imagine the price begins with Will and then some.

 

[Star Platinum]

Musty and Dickinson don’t belong in the same sentence. Dickinson is an actual elite prospect who we shouldn’t trade unless an established star is coming back the other way. Musty is in the Chernyshov/Halttunen/Bystedt tier of our pool as his draft position suggests.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Yeah well Grier has said otherwise and it’s in print so unless you provide some kind of proof and not inclined to believe you


Gotta catch a team that’s in perpetual rebuild like Detroit, buffalo or Ottawa who’s close to blowing it up again and starting over . So a Sieder for instance would be perfect, is it likely who knows but it’s worth shot

With our trade history with Detroit = Seider + 6th round pick for future considerations.

 

[Grinner]

With our trade history with Detroit = Seider + 6th round pick for future considerations.

I think they'd have to throw in a 2nd rounder

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

With our trade history with Detroit = Seider + 6th round pick for future considerations.

I mean it’s worth a shot

 

[pappaf2]

Wasn’t there some rumor that Seider was part of the reason Walkman was traded to the sharks?

 

[Hodge]

Looks like Ty Emberson is pretty much worthless after all. Another great call by Grier to sell high on him.

When it comes to solving our long term RD problem I’m looking at Utah and NJ. Between Durzi/Marino/Kesselring/Lamoreux and Hamilton/Pesce/Nemec/Kovacevic/Casey someone is going to get squeezed out soon.

 

[TheBeard]

Looks like Ty Emberson is pretty much worthless after all. Another great call by Grier to sell high on him.

When it comes to solving our long term RD problem I’m looking at Utah and NJ. Between Durzi/Marino/Kesselring/Lamoreux and Hamilton/Pesce/Nemec/Kovacevic/Casey someone is going to get squeezed out soon.

I'm on board with Hamilton as I'm sure NJ would love to move his huge cap hit. I also wouldn't be surprised if we are not on his 10 team NMC after this season.

 

[Patty Ice]

Someone get Freddie on the phone!

 

[matt trick]

Someone get Freddie on the phone!

This is why we drafted him!

 

[STL Shark]

Yeah well Grier has said otherwise and it’s in print so unless you provide some kind of proof and not inclined to believe you


Gotta catch a team that’s in perpetual rebuild like Detroit, buffalo or Ottawa who’s close to blowing it up again and starting over . So a Sieder for instance would be perfect, is it likely who knows but it’s worth shot

Don't care if rando on the internet believes me. Grier isn't going to come out in the media and say "Hey, this candy @$$ style of hockey that Sudbury plays isn't good for my prospect's development and I don't want him playing there anymore."

If you logically follow the timeline of when this all took place though, Musty decided he didn't want to play in Sudbury after being cut by the Sharks and having his exit meeting during training camp.

When even our junior hockey followers here know that Sudbury's style of play is detrimental to development, I'm pretty sure the Sharks org and development staff do too.

The working narrative is that it was communicate that going back to Sudbury and putting up a bunch of points while not playing in a system/style that is conducive to growing towards being an NHLer wasn't in his best interest. It's better than not playing hockey at all, but the Sharks org and Musty both rightfully wanted Musty out of Sudbury and somewhere with an actual development track.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Wasting their prime years?

Celebrini won't hit his prime for 6 years, he's 18, if we're not competitive when he's 24 then we've screwed up, that is in 2031

Now is the time to be patient and build our base of young talent, it is entirely possible to ruin a rebuild by selling futures for win-now pieces too early, the hope is that this is the last year of cellar dwelling and we maintain a steady upward trajectory from here on out, but there's no need to dump rocket fuel on the rebuild, everything is being done methodically and with intent

I’m sure Edmonton thought the same thing when they drafted McDavid and Draisital eh we’ve got 6 years to build out, now look at them constantly struggling to make the playoffs in their prime years. Now am I saying San Jose is a dumpster fires like Edmonton? No.
I think to many people are falling in love with stats and highlights of the sharks prospects. Collectively we tend to overvalue the teams prospects based on that.
My hope is San Jose takes the same path as Chicago, pens, Colorado, and Tampa.
That being said it’s a low percentage play to think every prospect is going to pan out or their game in Jr’s will translate to the pro game

 

[weastern bias]

I’m sure Edmonton thought the same thing when they drafted McDavid and Draisital eh we’ve got 6 years to build out, now look at them constantly struggling to make the playoffs in their prime years. Now am I saying San Jose is a dumpster fires like Edmonton? No.
I think to many people are falling in love with stats and highlights of the sharks prospects. Collectively we tend to overvalue the teams prospects based on that.
My hope is San Jose takes the same path as Chicago, pens, Colorado, and Tampa.
That being said it’s a low percentage play to think every prospect is going to pan out or their game in Jr’s will translate to the pro game

Yes, we all know they f***ed up their build, no one is looking to emulate Edmonton's roster construction, but one of their mistakes is they did exactly what you're advocating the Sharks do, they added big money veterans and squeezed their cap too tight before they were ever competitive in the first place

Part of the appeal of young players is not just the promise of improvement, but it's also that players on their ELCs give you maximum flexibility under the cap to construct your roster, it will be 3 short years before Celebrini, Smith, Askarov and Eklund are all highly paid (provided they all continue to progress), the most critical moment of our roster construction will be managing the salary structure of the team at that moment, once the kids are being paid and are rounding into form and looking to contribute to a contender

Edmonton's answer at that juncture was to sign contracts like Milan Lucic and Mikko Koskinen, I'd personally prefer to avoid committing term and cap to underwhelming veterans until we already have the core solidified and we're actually a playoff threat, doing that right now is more likely to fail than to succeed

 

[Lebanezer]

Again, what is the rush? They don’t need to be blocking any potential 1st or second line/pairing players from earning jobs now or in the next two seasons. When the team organically starts competing for the playoffs and it gets harder to draft blue chip prospects, or the current prospects stagnate, then you can start trading them for known quantities. The Sharks should want to build sustained success, not cut corners with flawed solutions.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes, we all know they f***ed up their build, no one is looking to emulate Edmonton's roster construction, but one of their mistakes is they did exactly what you're advocating the Sharks do, they added big money veterans and squeezed their cap too tight before they were ever competitive in the first place

Part of the appeal of young players is not just the promise of improvement, but it's also that players on their ELCs give you maximum flexibility under the cap to construct your roster, it will be 3 short years before Celebrini, Smith, Askarov and Eklund are all highly paid (provided they all continue to progress), the most critical moment of our roster construction will be managing the salary structure of the team at that moment, once the kids are being paid and are rounding into form and looking to contribute to a contender

Edmonton's answer at that juncture was to sign contracts like Milan Lucic and Mikko Koskinen, I'd personally prefer to avoid committing term and cap to underwhelming veterans until we already have the core solidified and we're actually a playoff threat, doing that right now is more likely to fail than to succeed

Considering the likely holes left behind by departing players, we're only really looking to add a capable 1B goalie type, middle six depth, and upgrading the blue line since we can't truly depend on anyone at that position no matter how this season ends. Only the blue line if it reels in a legitimate top pairing guy or better would I commit term past three years. Those four kids needing 8 years in an ideal scenario is going to potentially eat up 30-40 mil in a probable 100 mil cap league. The more times Grier is very selective about who he commits to past the 2027 offseason, the better the odds are for being capable of putting a competitive team together while paying who we're building around. And then at that point, we're going to need whatever future capital we've built up through rentals and drafting to materialize too. We need to continue to build that stockpile to help those four.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Again, what is the rush? They don’t need to be blocking any potential 1st or second line/pairing players from earning jobs now or in the next two seasons. When the team organically starts competing for the playoffs and it gets harder to draft blue chip prospects, or the current prospects stagnate, then you can start trading them for known quantities. The Sharks should want to build sustained success, not cut corners with flawed solutions.

The desire to win is always what puts pressure on these things especially when it'll be six years without a playoff berth and a considerably smaller crowd going to games the past six years. I agree with slow and steady to build sustained success and a lot of the elements for them to do so may already be in the fold. I'm hoping that any veteran adds are deliberate in terms of who they hope to assist by bringing them in. The only place that I'd make considerable change still is the blue line. If we're going to let Dickinson graduate to the Sharks next season, I want someone better than Jan Rutta as his partner but with a similar level of experience. I wouldn't want his partner to be Liljegren or Thompson either.

 

[Patty Ice]

we're only really looking to add a capable 1B goalie type

He's already on the roster. I see no reason to trade Blackwood unless a team is willing to fork over a 2nd round pick or better. I don't see any team doing that and it makes no sense to me to deal a good character guy and very capable 1B type in Blackwood for a mid round pick.

Grier just needs to re-sign him instead.