Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[one2gamble]

I can't imagine Grier being OK running a team that is that inexperienced...

Id run it, no real reason not to.

You just need maybe one or two really solid vets at most.

 

[tiburon12]

I was thinking of starting a thread that talks about the Sharks' systems (5v5, PP, PK) that's kinda adjacent to the roster and player talk.

Would that get enough interest or should we just keep things here?

The impetus was watching the Sharks try COL/TBL-style passing plays with varying degrees of success. Lot's of quick touches that were certainly absent in the Quinn Era

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I feel like next year will have a lot of rookies on a collision course to be NHL-ready all at once. Graf, Bystedt, Cardwell, Cagnoni, Dickinson, and maybe even Musty could all feasibly compete for jobs in addition to Celebrini, Smith, and Mukhamadullin (hopefully) already in place. If we draft Hagens or Martone, it could even be another teenager. It's a lot.

I really want to pencil Goodrow-Bystedt-Cardwell into the fourth line for next season, because I think Bystedt could even be okay in 4th line minutes right now and Cardwell obviously is too. Graf could feasibly find minutes on that third line.

Cagnoni is going to be more difficult to find minutes for, but that's a problem for Grier and not me. Dickinson could make things problematic if he takes that next step like I'm hoping too. Good problem to have, I suppose!

Shouldn't be that hard to get Cagnoni some time this season. They play way too much defense to stay healthy all year.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I can't imagine Grier being OK running a team that is that inexperienced...

It seems crazy, but at the same time it's complete feasible that those guys earn it. Celebrini, Smith, and Mukhamadullin are givens. Bystedt, Cardwell, Graf, and Cagnoni will be 21-22 year old AHL standouts, how long can you justify keeping them down? Throw in Dickinson, Musty, Halttunen, and the 2025 1st, there's going to be a ton of guys both on the cusp and who will deserve NHL roster spots.

Shouldn't be that hard to get Cagnoni some time this season. They play way too much defense to stay healthy all year.

Getting some time because of injuries and being an established NHLer are completely different things.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Getting some time because of injuries and being an established NHLer are completely different things.

That's probably how he finds minutes like you said. At least for this season.

 

[Juxtaposer]

That's probably how he finds minutes like you said. At least for this season.

Right, but I'm talking about next season's training camp. I'm assuming by the end of this season that Celebrini, Smith, and Mukhamadullin will be the established NHLers, while Bystedt/Graf/Cardwell/Cagnoni will have had excellent AHL campaigns with maybe a few sporadic NHL games sprinkled in. They'll all be pushing for NHL spots in 11 months on an already extremely young team.

 

[OrrNumber4]

It seems crazy, but at the same time it's complete feasible that those guys earn it. Celebrini, Smith, and Mukhamadullin are givens. Bystedt, Cardwell, Graf, and Cagnoni will be 21-22 year old AHL standouts, how long can you justify keeping them down? Throw in Dickinson, Musty, Halttunen, and the 2025 1st, there's going to be a ton of guys both on the cusp and who will deserve NHL roster spots.


Getting some time because of injuries and being an established NHLer are completely different things.

Assuming pending FAs leave and no one else is brought it:

You'd have 3 or 4 forwards and two defensemen with over 300 games of experience.
You'd have six forwards and three defensemen with under 100 games of experience.

Plus, maybe a rookie starting goaltender? That's very light. I'd like to add ~1,000 GP to that lineup, at the very least.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852421013788864872

Some notable line changes here, Cardwell taking Guschin's spot on the second line, Dellandrea back on the 4th line possibly means he is returning to the lineup Saturday (EDIT nvm Dellandrea can't return until Sunday from IR I think), Guschin on the "5th" line might mean he is being scratched? And of course they seem to be keeping the Ferraro-Rutta pairing for some reason they love it....Thrun is paired with Liljegren, Thompson seems to be the odd man out. PP1 looks the same but Liljegren seems to be taking the PP1 QB spot, I agree to try him out there and see how he looks

Defense is so bad Barfsofsky rolling 5 forward lines next game

 

[coooldude]

Defense is so bad Barfsofsky rolling 5 forward lines next game

 

[TheBeard]

Assuming pending FAs leave and no one else is brought it:

You'd have 3 or 4 forwards and two defensemen with over 300 games of experience.
You'd have six forwards and three defensemen with under 100 games of experience.

Plus, maybe a rookie starting goaltender? That's very light. I'd like to add ~1,000 GP to that lineup, at the very least.

Got wonder who sticks around from the FA crop and who is gone.

 

[Star Platinum]

Defense is so bad Barfsofsky rolling 5 forward lines next game

View attachment 925072

I was warming to it before our recent embarrassment of riches

 

[mogambomoroo]

I want to see Mukh stay healthy and play a lot of AHL minutes for now. He can be a top 4 D for the Sharks, but imo needs to push twice as hard because of the LD depth in the system. This year his injury unfortunately came or lingered at very bad time (training camp)

He will be competing with Dickinson, Cagnoni, Thrun and Furlong on the younger side and Walman, Ferraro on the veteran side. Good problem to have, but really wish he could push for a spot.

 

[Star Platinum]

Right, but I'm talking about next season's training camp. I'm assuming by the end of this season that Celebrini, Smith, and Mukhamadullin will be the established NHLers, while Bystedt/Graf/Cardwell/Cagnoni will have had excellent AHL campaigns with maybe a few sporadic NHL games sprinkled in. They'll all be pushing for NHL spots in 11 months on an already extremely young team.

No Askarov?

 

[weastern bias]

View attachment 925072

It's honestly worse than Hodge pushing "offenseman"

 

[Juxtaposer]

So locks for the team next season in my eyes are: Celebrini, Eklund, Smith, Toffoli, Wennberg, Zetterlund, and Goodrow. Grundstrom and Dellandrea are under contract but are more of 12th/13th forwards who aren't necessarily going to play every day. Kunin and Granlund could be back but aren't locks. Sturm is almost definitely gone. My preference would be to return Granlund and let Kunin go.

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Smith-Zetterlund
XXX-Wennberg-XXX
Goodrow-XXX-XXX
Grundstrom/Dellandrea

So if we keep Granlund, we might need another top-9 wing via FA/trade. If we don't, I think we need a top-6 wing via FA/trade. A wrinkle could be Martone...

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Smith-Zetterlund
Graf-Wennberg-UFA/Martone
Goodrow-Bystedt-Cardwell

Yeah, no way we have 7 of 12 forwards under 23, but also what do you do with some of these guys who deserve NHL minutes? I don't really feel like Bystedt is going to benefit from a second year in the AHL, and seems like an obvious heir to Sturm for the next couple of years and then Wennberg once his deal's up. Cardwell has paid his dues too. Maybe if you draft Martone you send him back to juniors anyway, but that doesn't feel ideal. Then you have Musty, Halttunen, and Chernyshov to consider in the next two/three years. Long-shots like Svoboda, Wetsch, and Rimashevsky could become useful pieces too.

Probably at some point, we're going to need to start consolidating assets for a single high-end piece (ironically, so a reverse-Timo trade), so there's also value in giving Graf opportunity to develop into a significant trade piece.

Again, good problem to have. We're two top picks (one D, one big winger) away from completing the core IMO. Then it's time to buy using non-core pieces.

No Askarov?

Goes without saying.

 

[Bizz]

I think Mike Grier needs to give Jan Rutta the Matt Benning treatment so Warsofsky stops playing him over proven better Defensemen like Jack Thompson.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Jack Thompson reminds me a lot of Josh Gorges just with more strength and better offense

 

[matt trick]

Assuming pending FAs leave and no one else is brought it:

You'd have 3 or 4 forwards and two defensemen with over 300 games of experience.
You'd have six forwards and three defensemen with under 100 games of experience.

Plus, maybe a rookie starting goaltender? That's very light. I'd like to add ~1,000 GP to that lineup, at the very least.

Agreed.

1. Vet Top 6 forward- Granlund or other
2. Vet platoon goalie- Blackwood, Vanecek, or other
3. #4/5 d-man via trade/waivers similar to Ceci this year (Trouba)
4. #4 d-man via UFA (Borgen)--> failing that Thompson
5. Top 9 forward- another Wennberg level third line guy--> failing that Gushchin/Graf/Cardwell

Zetterlund-Granlund-Tofolli
Eklund-Celebrini-Martone/UFA
Misa/Hagens/UFA-Wennberg-Smith
Goodrow-Dellandrea-Cardwell/Graf/Gush
Grundstrom

Walman-Borgen
Ferraro-Trouba
Muk-Liljigren
Thrun

Askarov
Vet Goalie

Underlined are UFA next year. Obviously, one top 9 UFA and one 2025 1st, not both top prospects. Provided some guys are moved out midway or deadline. You can maybe have Cardwell and either Graf/Guschin/Bords instead of the top 9 guy, but I agree that's awfy\ully light on experience.

There's also room for a 14th forward. Either that's G. Smith, Kunin, or another kid, but you probably rotate your bottom 5 forwards (aside from Goody).

Bystedt can also likely force his way into 4th line C, than graduate to 3C on a trial basis once Wennberg is moved.

Wouldn't necessarily hand them the spots, but for potential replacements:
1. Bystedt-->Wennberg
2. Ferraro-->Dickinson
3. Liljigren-->Cagnoni/Thompson
4. Delly-->Graf
5. Grundstrom or a top 9 UFA-->Musty

 

[matt trick]

On Jux's comments about a reverse Timo trade, I definitely think Grier will spend big in terms of assets for a top pairing D-man over the next three summers. If you can trade 3 B+ assets (Cherny, Musty, Bystedt, late first, early seconds) similar to the Sergachev trade, I think he does, especially if a RHD comes available. I don't see many guys becoming on the horizon.

The ones who come to mind are Dobson (who's a #1 IMO, albeit pretty mediocre defensively), Jiricek, and Rasmus Anderson. Neither seems all that likely however. Owen Power also is worth watching. If they become available, Dobson and Power would require an unprotected first, Musty/Bystedt, and probably another major asset (i.e. another unprotected first, Eklund, ect.). They'd cost a fortune. Let's say we add Martone this year and McKenna next, than I'm open to two first and Musty (and probably Eklund) to bring in a young top pairing RHD. Hopefully should that come to pass, we have so much depth, it doesn't hurt as much.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think the issue, as @Juxtaposer pointed out is that by next season:

1) Mukhamadullin, Cardwell, Gushchin, Bordeleau, Thrun, and Thompson need to be in the NHL, or off the team
2) Graf, Cagnoni, and Bystedt are very much looking like they will be "nothing left to learn in the AHL"

Then my issue: "can't run too inexperienced a lineup".

My guess?

Thrun, Gushchin, and Bordeleau will be off the team
Thompson, Bystedt, and Cagnoni will be in and out of the lineup; the latter two might spend a little time in the AHL
Graf and Cardwell will be consistently in the lineup. The other forwards will be interchangeably taking the free spot(s).
.

 

[Lebanezer]

What did he do?

 

[Timo Time]

What did he do?

Probably said Kunin is not a top-9 forward

 

[Cas]

What did he do?

Criticized Ferraro.

 

[SjMilhouse]

What did he do?

Who knows but I 100% called this in the GDT due to the rumored "issues" in Detroit....whatever those may be

 

[Juxtaposer]

What did he do?

Here's my short list:

1. Inappropriate conduct on Halloween
2. Inappropriate election-related conduct
3. Asked why Ferraro still gets minutes
4. Dropped Wennberg's baby