Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[gaucholoco3]

If Zetterlund really likes it here just go 8x$4.5. Gives him $36 million and keeps his cap hit down.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because Zetterlund'ss value is in the next 4-5 years and this team isn't likely to be contending until he's 28/29.

This year the Sharks are going to likely be a bottom 3 team and even if they draft someone like Hensler or Schaefer they aren't going to be ready for 2-3 years.

Replacing 35-40 point Middle 6 players is easier than trying to find top 4 quality d-men.

Who is trading us a quality top-4 defenseman in an age range and price point that makes sense for us for Zetterlund?

 

[Saskatoon]

Yea this team might have to pick up defense as we go with futures like Wilson did ala Rivet, Campbell, Blake, Boyle, Burns, etc

Hopefully this version of the Sharks futures figures it out faster

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Who is trading us a quality top-4 defenseman in an age range and price point that makes sense for us for Zetterlund?

I'm not sure that there is that sort of player available and I'd like to keep Zetterlund as long as that is the case. I don't think I care much about what Zetterlund's extension looks like. I think he can be a solid contributor for a long time at around 4-5 mil per. And at that sort of rate, I think he can be tradeable for a piece we need or if we develop a surplus of wingers during his term.

 

[TheBeard]

We'll need guys like Zetts around. He'll be. solid contributor and not break the bank. Gonna need those kinds of forwards when Celebrini, Musty, Smith, Hagens and Halttunen are all making 9+

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yea this team might have to pick up defense as we go with futures like Wilson did ala Rivet, Campbell, Blake, Boyle, Burns, etc

Hopefully this version of the Sharks futures figures it out faster

This is exactly how it's going to go. No team is built 100% through the draft, and as fun as it is to dream about a contending roster of just Sharks' draftees, it's just not going to happen.

I think the core of the Sharks defense in our (hopefully) contending years of Celebrini is going to be built around Dickinson, Mukhamadullin, hopefully one of Cagnoni/LSW/Pohlkamp, and a couple of acquisitions via trade and/or UFA. Think acquiring the Boyle/Burns via trade and Martin via UFA while having home-grown Vlasic/Braun in your system.

Part of the reason I'm uninterested in trading Zetterlund is that Grier has not shown the ability to maximize trade returns so far other than arguably the Meier trade. I've been fine with that so far since we're in the tear down phase, but eventually he'll have to hit some home run trade valuations in order to take this team to the next level.

Unless Montreal is giving up on Reinbacher or Columbus has decided that Jiricek is a bust, now really isn't the time to trade a young glue guy who actively wants to be here long-term.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I'm not sure that there is that sort of player available and I'd like to keep Zetterlund as long as that is the case. I don't think I care much about what Zetterlund's extension looks like. I think he can be a solid contributor for a long time at around 4-5 mil per. And at that sort of rate, I think he can be tradeable for a piece we need or if we develop a surplus of wingers during his term.

Zetterlund could be moved in a deal if the other team doesn’t only want futures.

Dobson + Lee (Cap Dump)
Zetterlund + Ferraro + Musty + top 5 protected 1st

This would give the Islanders a top 4 replacement for Dobson and a younger cheaper upgrade on Lee in addition to the futures.

Part of the reason I'm uninterested in trading Zetterlund is that Grier has not shown the ability to maximize trade returns so far other than arguably the Meier trade. I've been fine with that so far since we're in the tear down phase, but eventually he'll have to hit some home run trade valuations in order to take this team to the next level.

Grier isn’t looking to squeeze everything out of another GM and willing to create mutually beneficial deals. It is smart for situations when both sides don’t “have to” make a deal which has been true of most of the deals. The main trade where Grier had to deal a player was the Meier trade and like you said that is the one where he maximized the value of the trade.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Zetterlund could be moved in a deal if the other team doesn’t only want futures.

Dobson + Lee (Cap Dump)
Zetterlund + Ferraro + Musty + top 5 protected 1st

This would give the Islanders a top 4 replacement for Dobson and a younger cheaper upgrade on Lee in addition to the futures.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Isles would even consider that deal.

Grier isn’t looking to squeeze everything out of another GM and willing to create mutually beneficial deals. It is smart for situations when both sides don’t “have to” make a deal which has been true of most of the deals. The main trade where Grier had to deal a player was the Meier trade and like you said that is the one where he maximized the value of the trade.

Right, which is why I don't mind. I think it's smart to not squeeze other GMs in deals that aren't crucial to your team's future (ie Ceci, Burns, etc.) especially when you're a new GM trying to build good will with your colleagues.

All I'm saying is that because Grier has never been the "aggressor" in any trade that he's made so far, we don't know how capable of "squeezing" maximum value out of a deal he is. Zetterlund is someone you only trade if you're squeezing every bit of value out of him you can.

 

[weastern bias]

Dobson + Lee (Cap Dump)
Zetterlund + Ferraro + Musty + top 5 protected 1st

This doesn't come close to what a potential Dobson trade would cost

It starts with Dickinson + an unprotected 1st, which neither team wants to do so it isn't happening

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Zetterlund could be moved in a deal if the other team doesn’t only want futures.

Dobson + Lee (Cap Dump)
Zetterlund + Ferraro + Musty + top 5 protected 1st

This would give the Islanders a top 4 replacement for Dobson and a younger cheaper upgrade on Lee in addition to the futures.

I agree. I'm not sure that that's the Islanders move but if they wanted Zetterlund in a deal for Dobson, I'm certainly open to it.

 

[Jargon]

I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Isles would even consider that deal.



Right, which is why I don't mind. I think it's smart to not squeeze other GMs in deals that aren't crucial to your team's future (ie Ceci, Burns, etc.) especially when you're a new GM trying to build good will with your colleagues.

All I'm saying is that because Grier has never been the "aggressor" in any trade that he's made so far, we don't know how capable of "squeezing" maximum value out of a deal he is. Zetterlund is someone you only trade if you're squeezing every bit of value out of him you can.

I think maybe the Walman trade was the only one that felt like he pulled a con. Meier trade was really solid too. If Jack Thompson ends up an NHLer, that was actually a pretty good trade too, I think.

 

[vortexy]

Ethan Bear on waivers, 27 year old RHD, $2 million cap hit last year of his contract UFA after. Should we be interested?

 

[Hodge]

I think maybe the Walman trade was the only one that felt like he pulled a con. Meier trade was really solid too. If Jack Thompson ends up an NHLer, that was actually a pretty good trade too, I think.

Karlsson trade was highway robbery. That bum made $11.5 million to score 56 points last year. Can you imagine if Grier had waited and tried to trade him this summer? He's also injured again (shocker) and missed all of Penguins training camp.

 

[themelkman]

Ethan Bear on waivers, 27 year old RHD, $2 million cap hit last year of his contract UFA after. Should we be interested?

I wanted him a few years ago, but at this point he seems washed

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think maybe the Walman trade was the only one that felt like he pulled a con. Meier trade was really solid too. If Jack Thompson ends up an NHLer, that was actually a pretty good trade too, I think.

Obviously I have no proof of this, but everything written about the Walman trade made it seem like Yzerman basically called up Grier specifically and asked if he wanted to take Walman and a 2nd off his hands. Don't think it was Grier taking a hard negotiating position.

I also like Thompson and feel like the Duclair trade was a win, but I don't think it's high-impact either way.

Karlsson trade was highway robbery. That bum made $11.5 million to score 56 points last year. Can you imagine if Grier had waited and tried to trade him this summer? He's also injured again (shocker) and missed all of Penguins training camp.

I think the trade obviously ended up being a huge win because of how low their 1st ended up (it cost 42nd overall to move up but that's a drop in the bucket to get to 11th overall, basically the best that pick could have been) and because Granlund (and Rutta to an extent) have actually been good contributors to the Sharks as opposed to the cap dumps they were seen as at the time.

Grier absolutely deserves credit for moving Karlsson at the peak of his value, choosing "cap dumps" that ended up being good players, and making a smart bet that the Penguins wouldn't make the playoffs again even with Karlsson. But I don't feel like he "extracted every bit of value" from Karlsson. JMO.

Ethan Bear on waivers, 27 year old RHD, $2 million cap hit last year of his contract UFA after. Should we be interested?

Do we lose first priority on the waiver wire if we make a claim on Bear? I have no idea how waivers work.

I wouldn't hate grabbing him if not. But he doesn't move the needle for me much either way.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Do we lose first priority on the waiver wire if we make a claim on Bear? I have no idea how waivers work.

No it’s tied to reverse standings. It doesn’t update to this season until Nov 1st.

 

[Juxtaposer]

No it’s tied to reverse standings. It doesn’t update to this season until Nov 1st.

I thought there was some rule where if you claim a player off waivers successfully then you move to the back of the line. Maybe I'm crazy or the rule has changed? I dunno, waivers are confusing as hell.

 

[vortexy]

Do we lose first priority on the waiver wire if we make a claim on Bear? I have no idea how waivers work.

I wouldn't hate grabbing him if not. But he doesn't move the needle for me much either way.

I think we still would keep first priority for waivers even if we claim him. Starting November 1 waiver priority order will change based on the current season standings I believe.

Writeup from the Athletic on Ethan Bear: Bear is a smooth-skating puck-mover. The 27-year-old right-shot defender was a competent No. 4/5 defender for the Canucks in 2022-23, which included some time on the top pair with Quinn Hughes. Vancouver was interested in re-signing him but he was forced to have shoulder surgery after getting hurt playing for Team Canada in the 2023 IIHF World Championship. Bear wasn’t going to be ready for the start of last season so the Canucks pivoted and Washington swooped in and signed Bear to a two-year contract. Bear appeared in 24 games with the Capitals last season — he struggled at times, with his underlying two-way numbers cratering. In late March, he entered the NHL/NHLPA player assistance program and was cleared to return approximately a month later.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I thought there was some rule where if you claim a player off waivers successfully then you move to the back of the line. Maybe I'm crazy or the rule has changed? I dunno, waivers are confusing as hell.

I believe that was originally a video game or fantasy sports rule that has sort of bled into these sorts of discussions but the rules for the NHL is it stays with the reverse standings after November 1 and remains reverse standings of the previous season until then. We'll be 1st in line for anyone put on waivers for 26 days for sure.

 

[Bizz]

Ethan Bear on waivers, 27 year old RHD, $2 million cap hit last year of his contract UFA after. Should we be interested?

No. Ethan Bear sucks.