Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[weastern bias]

He wasn’t worth it for us but he’s been a mainstay on that Carolina blue line since traded there. He was overused on the sharks and at a time we were clearly on the downside, his bloated salary served no purpose. But he’s one of the few players I can think of who will actually play out his 8th year without being an absolute anchor.

He also only tils $5.28M on their cap rather than the full $8M he made here and is just one piece of a very deep D core rather than being the lynch-pin he was for us in his prime, the situation is entirely different and he's a useful player as a part of a good defense but he's not close to being worth $8M anymore which is why we had to move his deal

 

[TheBeard]

He also only tils $5.28M on their cap rather than the full $8M he made here and is just one piece of a very deep D core rather than being the lynch-pin he was for us in his prime, the situation is entirely different and he's a useful player as a part of a good defense but he's not close to being worth $8M anymore which is why we had to move his deal

I think the last couple of years he’s been close to one. He’s still playing 21 minutes a game, was 13th among all d-men in PP points and is still very much a top line pairing even if he’s on the second line. My point is he didn’t fall off the cliff the way most, including myself, expected.

 

[weastern bias]

I think the last couple of years he’s been close to one. He’s still playing 21 minutes a game, was 13th among all d-men in PP points and is still very much a top line pairing even if he’s on the second line. My point is he didn’t fall off the cliff the way most, including myself, expected.

A player's performance doesn't need to completely crater for their contract to be a problem

In 6 years Leon Draisaitl might be playing more like a $9M player than a $14M player, and that means he's still very valuable and useful, but it also means the Oilers have $5M less to spend on their cap to supplement the roster to offset his decline, either way it points to my point that you want to be paying out bigger money to younger players with long term so you actually get to take advantage of their true prime years

 

[Patty Ice]

Man it sounds like Couture is done. That's a bummer

Damn. We need a sad face reaction button. End of an era.

Can someone good at player comparisons please measure up Kasper Haltunen to Jonathan Cheechoo?

Great Value Patrik Laine

 

[STL Shark]

A player's performance doesn't need to completely crater for their contract to be a problem

In 6 years Leon Draisaitl might be playing more like a $9M player than a $14M player, and that means he's still very valuable and useful, but it also means the Oilers have $5M less to spend on their cap to supplement the roster to offset his decline, either way it points to my point that you want to be paying out bigger money to younger players with long term so you actually get to take advantage of their true prime years

It's also about how good are they at the beginning of the deal to offset that difference. Burns was a Norris caliber D-Man for at least half of that deal, top pairing guy for a quarter, and a great #3 for a quarter. That's a great deal every single day of the week.

Even in the Draisatl example, even if he's less productive at the end, that's still better than giving up 5-6 years where he's a top 5 player in the league and replacing it with a bunch of meh.

Overall, you rarely get into cap trouble paying superstars like superstars. The deals that get you in trouble are the middle line players coming off a great year that get paid like top line players or bottom line players doing the same and getting paid like middle line players. The $4-5M deals (in relative terms of the cap that we're all used to) are the deals that haunt you more than paying your top line guys.

 

[Hodge]

My point is that I'm not willing to part with 1st rounders right now to go fill a position that might already be sufficiently filled internally when we have very glaring holes on the right side of the defense. If we had a Cernak, Shattenkirk, Bogosian group on the right side, then sure go ahead and move some stuff around and go get a guy.

We currently have nothing close to that guy and that should be the focus if you're moving assets and spending money. I don't feel overly inclined to pay a top 10 pick plus more to go and acquire a non-#1 when we have nobody on the right side of the defense right now.

It's not that there is a limit on good players on the left side, it's that there are no good players on the right side and there is a limit on available assets to trade. Right now, those assets should go to addressing the most pressing needs, of which another top 4 but not bonafide #1 LHD is not one of right now. If it was merely cap space, go ahead. It's just going to be so much more than that required to get any of those three players that makes the juice not worth the squeeze given where we're at right now at that position and our competitive window.

So you wouldn't draft Matthew Schaefer with our 1st round pick just because he's a left shot? After all, that would be parting with a 1st rounder to fill a position "that might already be sufficiently filled internally" (which is just another way of saying the position is not currently filled and might never be).

I like Shak and Dickinson as prospects. The key words being "as prospects." They've played 3 combined NHL games. For all we know neither guy will even be able to hack it in a third pairing role. Hopefully not, but the fact is we have zero evidence that either one can play in the NHL let alone at a high enough level to warrant consideration when making moves to improve the team.

We need quality defensemen, period, and it's always going to be easier to find quality left-handed defensemen than right-handed defensemen given the disparity between how many LHD vs. RHD play in the league.

 

[landshark]

Same jersey number, same player, those are the rules

I totally didn't put that part together yet, with the numbers matching. I was just reading through posts and felt like he seems like a great, big, Cheechoo from some of the descriptions I'd read. 14 was Patty's rookie number also.

Same number of letters in last name.

Edit: aw crap, he only had one t. There’s 2.

OH shit, thanks. I actually looked it up earlier and typed it wrong anyway... Noted. Thanks!

Great Value Patrik Laine

So, Ohio if is the new Florida. Would this make San Jose the next Winnepeg?

 

[Bizz]

Yeah after reading that article, it looks like Couture is donezo. Even if he manages to come back next year he'd be like Cheechoo's last year here when he could barely skate anymore. That probably means Granlund is off the trade market unless we get some sort of significant offer for him. I'd be fine with him sticking around a few more years. I also wouldn't mind bringing in another veteran forward to take Couture's place next July 1st. Maybe someone like Giroux.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Speaking about contracts, Detroit seems to be doing a fine job with their cap management. Something to emulate?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah after reading that article, it looks like Couture is donezo. Even if he manages to come back next year he'd be like Cheechoo's last year here when he could barely skate anymore. That probably means Granlund is off the trade market unless we get some sort of significant offer for him. I'd be fine with him sticking around a few more years. I also wouldn't mind bringing in another veteran forward to take Couture's place next July 1st. Maybe someone like Giroux.

It probably only takes him off the market until the trade deadline. They'll move him and Sturm by then for some draft capital.

 

[pappaf2]

It probably only takes him off the market until the trade deadline. They'll move him and Sturm by then for some draft capital.

I mean if continues to produce like last year and be a good leader/mentor and Logan doesn’t come back I could see them extending him.

 

[TheBeard]

Speaking about contracts, Detroit seems to be doing a fine job with their cap management. Something to emulate?

I would. The way the cap goes up and cap hits accordingly, a 10 million dollar contract in, say, 2027 will be the equivalent of an 8 million dollar contract in 2030

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I mean if continues to produce like last year and be a good leader/mentor and Logan doesn’t come back I could see them extending him.

I could see that too but I don't think they bring in Toffoli, Goodrow, and Wennberg without giving themselves the option at least to trade Granlund. We'll still have significant veteran presence on this roster without him.

 

[weastern bias]

The Seider contract is an excellent example of what I've been talking about, he's underpaid NOW, in the middle of that deal it'll be one of the best value contracts in the league, that's why you lock your young stars up immediately

 

[Barrie22]

Its weird that it is 7 years and not the normal 8 in that situation.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Its weird that it is 7 years and not the normal 8 in that situation.

I think agents are aware that the market for a 30 year old is much better than the market for a 31 year old. If I was an agent I would want that second contract to expire at 29 so they are perceived as young enough for an 8 or 7 year deal.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Its weird that it is 7 years and not the normal 8 in that situation.

It's supposedly so that by buying out one less UFA season the AAV was able to be lower than Larkin. I personally think that's insane because I don't think Larkin is a franchise-caliber player who you have to cater to, but that's just me.

 

[Hodge]

Now that it's all but confirmed Couture isn't coming back, why not throw his 8 million plus Granlund's 5 at Mitch Marner next summer?

I'm not the biggest fan of Marner but there's no denying he'd be a perfect linemate for Celebrini. Eklund-Celebrini-Marner could be lethal.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Now that it's all but confirmed Couture isn't coming back, why not throw his 8 million plus Granlund's 5 at Mitch Marner next summer?

I'm not the biggest fan of Marner but there's no denying he'd be a perfect linemate for Celebrini. Eklund-Celebrini-Marner could be lethal.

Marner is subtraction by addition. His style of play just does not work in the playoffs. On top of that, his general attitude towards criticism and the media is not something the Sharks should want.

 

[Hodge]

Marner is subtraction by addition. His style of play just does not work in the playoffs. On top of that, his general attitude towards criticism and the media is not something the Sharks should want.

I agree to some extent but at the end of the day he's a 100 point forward with a solid defensive game. Let's worry about making the playoffs first.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I agree to some extent but at the end of the day he's a 100 point forward with a solid defensive game. Let's worry about making the playoffs first.

Let's avoid those beginnings to avoid those endings

 

[weastern bias]

I agree to some extent but at the end of the day he's a 100 point forward with a solid defensive game. Let's worry about making the playoffs first.

A 100 point forward who has never scored 100 points

I actually like Mitch Marner and would welcome his talents on my team, but not at the price he will demand and not with term at his age, it would just be us making the same mistake Toronto made by screwing up their cap structure when they signed Tavares

If we go big game hunting in free agency it HAS to be a top flight defenseman, otherwise it's better to keep just building through the draft or trades

 

[Shark Finn]

It's supposedly so that by buying out one less UFA season the AAV was able to be lower than Larkin. I personally think that's insane because I don't think Larkin is a franchise-caliber player who you have to cater to, but that's just me.

What a wonderful strategy, instead of having your highest scoring player as the captain, name a character captain, make them the highest paid player and tell everyone else that you're not getting paid more than our captain! Profit!

Luke Kunin, anyone?

 

[67 others]

So you wouldn't draft Matthew Schaefer with our 1st round pick just because he's a left shot? After all, that would be parting with a 1st rounder to fill a position "that might already be sufficiently filled internally" (which is just another way of saying the position is not currently filled and might never be).

I like Shak and Dickinson as prospects. The key words being "as prospects." They've played 3 combined NHL games. For all we know neither guy will even be able to hack it in a third pairing role. Hopefully not, but the fact is we have zero evidence that either one can play in the NHL let alone at a high enough level to warrant consideration when making moves to improve the team.

We need quality defensemen, period, and it's always going to be easier to find quality left-handed defensemen than right-handed defensemen given the disparity between how many LHD vs. RHD play in the league.

It depends on how close Trethaway or Hensler is to Schaefer by draft time.

You need to remember at the start of last year, Hensler was ranked above Schaefer. Rankings bounce a lot based on a single tournament or playoff series just before the draft. For all we know, Hensler could be back to projected 2nd-3rd overall again by year end like he was last year or Trethaway could rise like Beckett Senneke
Schaefer could drop like Cole Eiserman, who was universally thought of as 2nd overall starting last year.

It's nice to have guys to watch, but we shouldn't be falling in lust for any of them yet

 

[STL Shark]

I could see that too but I don't think they bring in Toffoli, Goodrow, and Wennberg without giving themselves the option at least to trade Granlund. We'll still have significant veteran presence on this roster without him.

Agree with this. They'll be looking for Celebrini/Smith to seize the 1/2 center spots (without needing a 2nd center on their line to babysit them) while still having Wennberg and Goodrow as good center depth. Add in a chance for Bystedt to compete for an NHL job next year as well and we start to fill up on center slots quickly.

If Granlund was a little bigger, I'd say you keep him primarily as a winger, but need some size on the wing with Eklund, Celebrini, Smith all being on the average build end of the spectrum. I think the primary target in UFA (should he get there) is Trent Frederic. Feels like a perfect piece for what Grier wants this team to be around Macklin and Smith. Play him on the LW where Kostin is right now or drop him to 3C.