Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[STL Shark]

You're talking about a guy who was dumped for a 7th round pick (with the Wings forced to eat the rest of Simek's salary) a few months ago. He's not getting claimed on waivers at that cap hit.

Bizarre cherrypicking of his ES scoring numbers. Since the start of the 21-22 season, which encompasses 149 of his 155 career NHL games, Kostin has scored 1.65 points per 60. Which happens to be identical to Mathieu Joseph who the Sens just had to attach a 3rd to dump on the Blues.

Kostin is the least useful forward among our one-way contracts (Couture, Toffoli, Granlund, Wennberg, Goodrow, Kunin, Sturm, Grundstrom, Zetterlund, Dellandrea, G. Smith) because he doesn't have a track record of filling a defined role in the NHL. That said, this is a massive credit to Grier considering Kostin is still a huge upgrade over some of the garbage we were trotting out up front last season like Hoffman, Barabanov, Labanc and Zadina.

I acknowledged that he was bad in Detroit, but also incredibly misused by a poorly run team/organization. He did well in an almost full season with Edmonton and then did well in his short stint in San Jose (comparable to his time with Edmonton the year prior which depicts his Detroit time as the significant outlier). If you add his time in STL, Edmonton, and San Jose, he's a 1.85 ES points per 60 compared to 0.8 over a 33 game stretch in Detroit. Pretty easy to see what's the real and what's the outlier.

To the Mathieu Joseph point, if Kostin was 2 years older, making 50% more money per year for double the term, maybe there's a comparison to be drawn. Because quite literally none of those factors are in play (and he's 6'4 rather than 6'1), that comparison falls woefully flat. Kostin for 1 year at $2M would be claimed even if he was just a 4th liner because he's 6'4 and can skate.

There is also the fact that Detroit acquired him as the sweetener for taking on Yamamoto's contract from Edmonton literally a year ago that proves that he has real value.

 

[Hodge]

I acknowledged that he was bad in Detroit, but also incredibly misused by a poorly run team/organization. He did well in an almost full season with Edmonton and then did well in his short stint in San Jose (comparable to his time with Edmonton the year prior which depicts his Detroit time as the significant outlier). If you add his time in STL, Edmonton, and San Jose, he's a 1.85 ES points per 60 compared to 0.8 over a 33 game stretch in Detroit. Pretty easy to see what's the real and what's the outlier.

To the Mathieu Joseph point, if Kostin was 2 years older, making 50% more money per year for double the term, maybe there's a comparison to be drawn. Because quite literally none of those factors are in play (and he's 6'4 rather than 6'1), that comparison falls woefully flat. Kostin for 1 year at $2M would be claimed even if he was just a 4th liner because he's 6'4 and can skate.

There is also the fact that Detroit acquired him as the sweetener for taking on Yamamoto's contract from Edmonton literally a year ago that proves that he has real value.

Yes, it's very easy to see what's real and what's the outlier with Kostin. The outlier is the 19 games with the Sharks where he shot 23.8%.

 

[stator]

Vlassic was an Elite defenseman for the Sharks

Oh yeah, he's a first ballot HOFer for sure to go along with those couple of Norris trophies he has.

Well, maybe this Vlassic guy you talk about might be, the the Vlasic I'm referring to is not elite. The only good thing about his career is being paired with Braun. The guy barely has a NHL level shot.

 

[coooldude]

Oh yeah, he's a first ballot HOFer for sure to go along with those couple of Norris trophies he has.

Well, maybe this Vlassic guy you talk about might be, the the Vlasic I'm referring to is not elite. The only good thing about his career is being paired with Braun. The guy barely has a NHL level shot.

For a period of time, Vlasic was quietly one of the best shutdown D in the league, corresponding to his 2009, 2012, 2014 Team Canada appearances. You don't make team Canada as a no name nothing nobody with no sexy skills or high profile, unless you're good at something, and Vlasic was very good at shutdown D.

After that, of course, I think you're right. He was a solid defenseman paired with Braun, no longer elite. Then he became a weak defenseman by 2020ish. Now he's what he is. He's definitely not making the HOF, but he did strangely have a lot of goals last year (for him).

 

[STL Shark]

Yes, it's very easy to see what's real and what's the outlier with Kostin. The outlier is the 19 games with the Sharks where he shot 23.8%.

Because he totally didn't have a 19.6% shooting percentage in a 57 game season in Edmonton last year or anything like that. You make defeating you in debates so easy.

 

[Gecklund]

Yes, it's very easy to see what's real and what's the outlier with Kostin. The outlier is the 19 games with the Sharks where he shot 23.8%.

Let’s be honest here. Who cares? It’s not like we don’t have spots. It’s not like we have people to fill those spots. If a young guy breaks through, great they can replace Kostin but they need to break through first.

 

[Cas]

I don't have high hopes for Kostin, but we're in a position to see if he can show anything worth potentially keeping him (or trading him). No reason to try and replace him right now.

 

[Hodge]

Because he totally didn't have a 19.6% shooting percentage in a 57 game season in Edmonton last year or anything like that. You make defeating you in debates so easy.

Clearly he's a true talent 20% shooter based on those 80 games. Plan the parade, we have the best finisher in the NHL.

Let’s be honest here. Who cares? It’s not like we don’t have spots. It’s not like we have people to fill those spots. If a young guy breaks through, great they can replace Kostin but they need to break through first.

Never said any different. I'm just strongly against the idea of saddling Will Smith with him and I think Kostin (not Kunin or Givani Smith) will and should be the first guy waived if a young forward unexpectedly breaks camp.

 

[pappaf2]

Oh yeah, he's a first ballot HOFer for sure to go along with those couple of Norris trophies he has.

Well, maybe this Vlassic guy you talk about might be, the the Vlasic I'm referring to is not elite. The only good thing about his career is being paired with Braun. The guy barely has a NHL level shot.

What a ridiculous take. He may have been one dimensional but he was the best pure shut down guy in the league for a number of years.

 

[TheBeard]

Oh yeah, he's a first ballot HOFer for sure to go along with those couple of Norris trophies he has.

Well, maybe this Vlassic guy you talk about might be, the the Vlasic I'm referring to is not elite. The only good thing about his career is being paired with Braun. The guy barely has a NHL level shot.

This is a weird take. Dude was the elite shutdown defender for a few seasons

 

[STL Shark]

I don't have high hopes for Kostin, but we're in a position to see if he can show anything worth potentially keeping him (or trading him). No reason to try and replace him right now.

Which is fine. It's also fine to think that he has value on the open market and would be gobbled up on waivers because there are not many 6'4 guys that skate well and have the ability to pot 15 goals a year.

There are definite flaws in his game that have led to him playing 10 mins a night throughout his career on multiple teams, but even if you accept him as just a 4th liner that's 6'4, 25 years old, and skates well most teams are willing to pay $2M a year for that guy (see Brandon Duhaime in Washington at 2 years $1.85M with less skill but is 6'4 and can skate and therefore has a spot in the league at almost $2M a year.

It's the idea that he's waiver wire bait or would be a mutual termination candidate that is just obtuse and contrarian just for the sake of a certain shtick.

 

[Pavelski2112]

This is a weird take. Dude was the elite shutdown defender for a few seasons

Some people have had these weird revisionist takes that Vlasic was only good because of Braun and that he was never actually as good as we thought he was at the time, and I'm sure it's because they're watching him now and can't fathom how someone that good became this bad.

 

[TheBeard]

Some people have had these weird revisionist takes that Vlasic was only good because of Braun and that he was never actually as good as we thought he was at the time, and I'm sure it's because they're watching him now and can't fathom how someone that good became this bad.

In all fairness, the regression is staggering. I know it's easy to blame it on the hip injury, but dude just doesn't look like he even cares anymore.

 

[Cas]

Some people have had these weird revisionist takes that Vlasic was only good because of Braun and that he was never actually as good as we thought he was at the time, and I'm sure it's because they're watching him now and can't fathom how someone that good became this bad.

Age comes at you fast.

As a baseball fan, Miguel Cabrera comes to mind - offensive force one year, scrub only in the lineup because of his contract the next.

 

[Pavelski2112]

In all fairness, the regression is staggering. I know it's easy to blame it on the hip injury, but dude just doesn't look like he even cares anymore.

A big part of Vlasic's game was his skating ability, once that started to regress it was over

 

[pappaf2]

Some people have had these weird revisionist takes that Vlasic was only good because of Braun and that he was never actually as good as we thought he was at the time, and I'm sure it's because they're watching him now and can't fathom how someone that good became this bad.

It’s truly like the MonStars had a hockey game they needed to win and put the hit job on him.

 

[Hodge]

Which is fine. It's also fine to think that he has value on the open market and would be gobbled up on waivers because there are not many 6'4 guys that skate well and have the ability to pot 15 goals a year.

There are definite flaws in his game that have led to him playing 10 mins a night throughout his career on multiple teams, but even if you accept him as just a 4th liner that's 6'4, 25 years old, and skates well most teams are willing to pay $2M a year for that guy (see Brandon Duhaime in Washington at 2 years $1.85M with less skill but is 6'4 and can skate and therefore has a spot in the league at almost $2M a year.

It's the idea that he's waiver wire bait or would be a mutual termination candidate that is just obtuse and contrarian just for the sake of a certain shtick.

Klim Kostin, who has never scored 15 goals in a season, has "the ability to pot 15 goals a year" but Kunin, who actually has put up a 15 goal season in addition to killing penalties and providing physicality, is a worthless plug who needs to be off the team ASAP.

Kostin's size is irrelevant. He does not use it to help his team. You've clearly never watched Duhaime play if you're comparing the two. Duhaime is a relentless forechecker who competes hard every shift which is why he was sought after by a championship team at the deadline while Kostin went to the worst team in the league for a 7th and a salary dump.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Klim Kostin has proven repeatedly that he can only produce even a little bit when given prime minutes with prime teammates and he pouts and becomes useless if not given prime minutes with prime teammates. I’m happy to have him in the org because I do think he’s a solid stop-gap top-9 option for this team right now but I would be completely fine waiving him if someone like Musty shows he should be in the NHL at camp.

 

[TheBeard]

Kostin, Bailey, Kunin... they're all the same player. Just balls of aggression in short spurts. They always look more impressive on teams like ours because the relative lack of talent makes them look better than they really are. Doesn't mean they're not valuable members though.

 

[Alaskanice]

Kostin, Bailey, Kunin... they're all the same player. Just balls of aggression in short spurts. They always look more impressive on teams like ours because the relative lack of talent makes them look better than they really are. Doesn't mean they're not valuable members though.

I think Kostin is better than the other two.
He can cycle better than them and he handles the puck better and passes better.

 

[TheBeard]

I think Kostin is better than the other two.
He can cycle better than them and he handles the puck better and passes better.

Hey may be, but my point is they all get overhyped because they're playing with the other guys lol.

 

[Hodge]

Kostin, Bailey, Kunin... they're all the same player. Just balls of aggression in short spurts. They always look more impressive on teams like ours because the relative lack of talent makes them look better than they really are. Doesn't mean they're not valuable members though.

One of these things is not like the others. Kunin would have a lineup spot on every team in the league. Kostin and Bailey will be lucky to avoid getting waived by one of the worst teams in recent history. If the latter two aren't scoring they're not doing anything to help you win and they don't score above a 4th line level to begin with.

 

[weastern bias]

Kunin would have a lineup spot on every team in the league.

Kunin plays the Lomberg role on the Panthers, the 14th forward who draws in for situational matchups when the team needs a player who plays hard but has no hands or IQ

 

[Alaskanice]

Kostin gets overhyped because he does have the talent to be a point producer, the other two don’t. They get hyped for their effort in other ways.

 

[rideaucrusher21]

Kunin hasn’t been in the AHL in like 5 seasons. He’s a legit NHLer with experience. Kostin and Bailey have been shuttled between the NHL and AHL virtually their whole careers. They’re not the same at all.