Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

You would’ve HATED Mike Rathje.
It’s what made him a very good defenseman. Many fans didn’t like that.

I hated Rathje because he was a behemoth but played like he was 4 feet tall. I wanted Kasparatis that year.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Looking back to the 2021 draft, knowing the Sharks current roster, would it have been better to select Guenther or Eklund? Also what does Eklund’s next contract look like?

In hindsight, I think Clarke would have been the best pick. But I was equally happy with Clarke, Guenther, or Eklund at the time. They were my 4-6 ranked guys in that draft.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

In hindsight, I think Clarke would have been the best pick. But I was equally happy with Clarke, Guenther, or Eklund at the time. They were my 4-6 ranked guys in that draft.

Clarke was clearly the right pick. I really like Eklund but I never would have drafted him 7OA. Draft picks that high are best spent on centers and defenseman with very few exceptions. Good wingers are always available.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Clarke has played 31 NHL games. Guenther has played 84. Eklund 102. It’s far too early confirm any of these guys were the right pick in hindsight…we don’t have enough hindsight yet. Eklund is doing well.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848537231826223245

 

[Juxtaposer]

Clarke has played 31 NHL games. Guenther has played 84. Eklund 102. It’s far too early confirm any of these guys were the right pick in hindsight…we don’t have enough hindsight yet. Eklund is doing well.

Eklund is absolutely doing great and I adore him and I'm thrilled to have him. I just mean that given our lack of talented RHD, Clarke would fill a huge organizational need compared to Eklund.

 

[coooldude]

Time will tell, but as described, it sounds like a thoughtful plan.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848537231826223245

 

[tiburon12]

No…intensity?

Personally, I think we got a win with him. He’s doing so much that we needed at this point.

Not mutually exclusive things

Watch a shift of Brandon Hagel play and then watch a shift of Walman. Walman may do everything right, and he has been good for us no doubt, but his play looks lackadaisical. Labanc was similar too, even in his best years here.

 

[Alaskanice]

Not mutually exclusive things

Watch a shift of Brandon Hagel play and then watch a shift of Walman. Walman may do everything right, and he has been good for us no doubt, but his play looks lackadaisical. Labanc was similar too, even in his best years here.

I get it but I don’t equate it to great play.
I watched Igor Larionov play, no intensity in him but simple brilliance. Vlasic has never been excitable out there but rose to be one of the best defense man in the league.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

I have never been one to praise Eklund but I absolutely love his play this year. Much better 5v5 game now and is not just a transition scorer, and he's so willing to hit this season (I think Zetterlund has rubbed off on him).

I have watched Clarke twice this year and he reminds me of a bigger Cagnoni. Everything he does is quick, shifty, lots of dangerous pucks to the net. I'm definitely intrigued by him. I haven't watched enough to make the judgment over Eklund.

 

[Lebanezer]

I have never been one to praise Eklund but I absolutely love his play this year. Much better 5v5 game now and is not just a transition scorer, and he's so willing to hit this season (I think Zetterlund has rubbed off on him).

I have watched Clarke twice this year and he reminds me of a bigger Cagnoni. Everything he does is quick, shifty, lots of dangerous pucks to the net. I'm definitely intrigued by him. I haven't watched enough to make the judgment over Eklund.

Cagnoni >>> Clarke.

Don't @ me.

Well, in height Clarke >>> Cagnoni.

 

[coooldude]

Surprised that we didn't get more commentary from the Grier 27min surprise presser... here are the juiciest tidbits that I hadn't seen posted about yet.

1. The plan is for Will Smith to stay in the NHL all year. Grier basically said he thought he'd be best developing up with the big squad, and any time he or Macklin is scratched it's for load management and not performance related. So we can stop debating it.
2. He isn't worried about Will. "Some games he struggled, some games he looked OK -- a couple clean looks where if he puts it in or if his teammates finish, we aren't talking about this." Notably, "if you watched him at BC, you wouldn't say he was great in his own end. He's really committed to improving there and looks better there." "Learning what works and what doesn't in this league, real cerebral player, always learning etc."
3. The load management plan for 2 & 71 is only for the first half of the year. He specifically said he wanted them to experience the rigors of the back half of the schedule and try to play all 41 games, "take their lumps" and learn what they need to get better at for next year.
4. He more or less said that Askarov would stay down in the AHL until he makes it clear that he's in the wrong league... which 2 games doesn't prove yet. And that the sharks could carry 3 GK's if needed, which echoes what he said preseason but it is a bit more clear -- there's definitely a path for Askarov to force the issue. But they (and he) are comfortable with him playing a lot in the AHL this year.
5. While Daddy Celebrini had a say in Macklin's load management plan, he is not involved in any official or unofficial capacity with the Sharks org (aka not involved in Smith's plan). However, with Potenza coming from the Warriors to the Sharks, it seemed fairly obvious that Potenza was installing the same approaches that the Warriors have used (Grier specifically shouted out Steph C and the crazy NBA travel requirements).
6. He mentioned "Catapult" which appears to be a company providing pro sports data tracking & analysis + video analysis suite (probably some ML being layered in there too for play ID). At the least, worn accelerometers (and possibly location tracking) to try to measure intensity, skating imbalances, movement patterns and potential issues, benchmarking for rehab and return to play, etc. Seems like the NHL Edge data is the "community least common denominator" while Catapult may be used by some/many/(all?) of the NHL teams for more targeted player data. First I have heard of it but makes total sense.
7. He mentioned Cagnoni is playing very well and all but said he expects him to stay with the 'Cuda.
8. In contrast, he seemed on the fence re: whether it's best for Haltunnen's development to "have to fight for it" versus men, or get more puck touches and drive play in London. But that they owe it to him, and London, to make the decision ASAP.
9. He insinuated that the Sharks were not at all involved with Musty's decision to hold out. More or less said it was on the agent, Musty, and his family, and that they were putting pressure on the agent to get this resolved ASAP while trying to support "Q".

Those were the big ones that struck me as useful to share for roster discussion.

 

[gaucholoco3]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848537231826223245

I like that they are load managing games with a focus on the gym and weight room. It will be next to impossible for these teenagers to increase their weight, let alone maintain their current weight if they are playing every game.

 

[Star Platinum]

Surprised that we didn't get more commentary from the Grier 27min surprise presser... here are the juiciest tidbits that I hadn't seen posted about yet.

1. The plan is for Will Smith to stay in the NHL all year. Grier basically said he thought he'd be best developing up with the big squad, and any time he or Macklin is scratched it's for load management and not performance related. So we can stop debating it.
2. He isn't worried about Will. "Some games he struggled, some games he looked OK -- a couple clean looks where if he puts it in or if his teammates finish, we aren't talking about this." Notably, "if you watched him at BC, you wouldn't say he was great in his own end. He's really committed to improving there and looks better there." "Learning what works and what doesn't in this league, real cerebral player, always learning etc."
3. The load management plan for 2 & 71 is only for the first half of the year. He specifically said he wanted them to experience the rigors of the back half of the schedule and try to play all 41 games, "take their lumps" and learn what they need to get better at for next year.
4. He more or less said that Askarov would stay down in the AHL until he makes it clear that he's in the wrong league... which 2 games doesn't prove yet. And that the sharks could carry 3 GK's if needed, which echoes what he said preseason but it is a bit more clear -- there's definitely a path for Askarov to force the issue. But they (and he) are comfortable with him playing a lot in the AHL this year.
5. While Daddy Celebrini had a say in Macklin's load management plan, he is not involved in any official or unofficial capacity with the Sharks org (aka not involved in Smith's plan). However, with Potenza coming from the Warriors to the Sharks, it seemed fairly obvious that Potenza was installing the same approaches that the Warriors have used (Grier specifically shouted out Steph C and the crazy NBA travel requirements).
6. He mentioned "Catapult" which appears to be a company providing pro sports data tracking & analysis + video analysis suite (probably some ML being layered in there too for play ID). At the least, worn accelerometers (and possibly location tracking) to try to measure intensity, skating imbalances, movement patterns and potential issues, benchmarking for rehab and return to play, etc. Seems like the NHL Edge data is the "community least common denominator" while Catapult may be used by some/many/(all?) of the NHL teams for more targeted player data. First I have heard of it but makes total sense.
7. He mentioned Cagnoni is playing very well and all but said he expects him to stay with the 'Cuda.
8. In contrast, he seemed on the fence re: whether it's best for Haltunnen's development to "have to fight for it" versus men, or get more puck touches and drive play in London. But that they owe it to him, and London, to make the decision ASAP.
9. He insinuated that the Sharks were not at all involved with Musty's decision to hold out. More or less said it was on the agent, Musty, and his family, and that they were putting pressure on the agent to get this resolved ASAP while trying to support "Q".

Those were the big ones that struck me as useful to share for roster discussion.

Thank you for summarizing.

 

[Hobocop]

1. He mentioned Cagnoni is playing very well and all but said he expects him to stay with the 'Cuda.
2. In contrast, he seemed on the fence re: whether it's best for Haltunnen's development to "have to fight for it" versus men, or get more puck touches and drive play in London. But that they owe it to him, and London, to make the decision ASAP.

Those were the big ones that struck me as useful to share for roster discussion.

I'm in the same boat, tbh. Somebody else pointed it out during our 5 on 3 power play vs. Iowa on Saturday, Iowa was just sitting back waiting for us to set up Halttunen, and then moving to take away his shot. The following game, Halttunen did very little. Didn't even register a shot on goal. Relatedly: Our PP1 unit really stunk up the joint that game.

Basically, what I'm saying is he's got to do more 5 on 5, or there's not going to be much point to keeping him. Because teams have already noticed what he does on the power play, and that's where all of his points have come from this season. He could easily wind up being sent back to junior once we get healthier.

Cagnoni on the other hand really started coming into his own last weekend. Keep him. He might not be great on defense, but his offensive creativity makes us so much more dangerous. In a way, he's the type of player I was hoping Ryan Merkley would be.

 

[jarr92]

Cagnoni on the other hand really started coming into his own last weekend. Keep him. He might not be great on defense, but his offensive creativity makes us so much more dangerous. In a way, he's the type of player I was hoping Ryan Merkley would be.

It helps that Cagnoni can actually shoot, unlike Merkley. IMO Cagnoni also looks a bit better defensively than last year in Junior.

 

[one2gamble]

Surprised that we didn't get more commentary from the Grier 27min surprise presser... here are the juiciest tidbits that I hadn't seen posted about yet.

1. The plan is for Will Smith to stay in the NHL all year. Grier basically said he thought he'd be best developing up with the big squad, and any time he or Macklin is scratched it's for load management and not performance related. So we can stop debating it.
2. He isn't worried about Will. "Some games he struggled, some games he looked OK -- a couple clean looks where if he puts it in or if his teammates finish, we aren't talking about this." Notably, "if you watched him at BC, you wouldn't say he was great in his own end. He's really committed to improving there and looks better there." "Learning what works and what doesn't in this league, real cerebral player, always learning etc."
3. The load management plan for 2 & 71 is only for the first half of the year. He specifically said he wanted them to experience the rigors of the back half of the schedule and try to play all 41 games, "take their lumps" and learn what they need to get better at for next year.
4. He more or less said that Askarov would stay down in the AHL until he makes it clear that he's in the wrong league... which 2 games doesn't prove yet. And that the sharks could carry 3 GK's if needed, which echoes what he said preseason but it is a bit more clear -- there's definitely a path for Askarov to force the issue. But they (and he) are comfortable with him playing a lot in the AHL this year.
5. While Daddy Celebrini had a say in Macklin's load management plan, he is not involved in any official or unofficial capacity with the Sharks org (aka not involved in Smith's plan). However, with Potenza coming from the Warriors to the Sharks, it seemed fairly obvious that Potenza was installing the same approaches that the Warriors have used (Grier specifically shouted out Steph C and the crazy NBA travel requirements).
6. He mentioned "Catapult" which appears to be a company providing pro sports data tracking & analysis + video analysis suite (probably some ML being layered in there too for play ID). At the least, worn accelerometers (and possibly location tracking) to try to measure intensity, skating imbalances, movement patterns and potential issues, benchmarking for rehab and return to play, etc. Seems like the NHL Edge data is the "community least common denominator" while Catapult may be used by some/many/(all?) of the NHL teams for more targeted player data. First I have heard of it but makes total sense.
7. He mentioned Cagnoni is playing very well and all but said he expects him to stay with the 'Cuda.
8. In contrast, he seemed on the fence re: whether it's best for Haltunnen's development to "have to fight for it" versus men, or get more puck touches and drive play in London. But that they owe it to him, and London, to make the decision ASAP.
9. He insinuated that the Sharks were not at all involved with Musty's decision to hold out. More or less said it was on the agent, Musty, and his family, and that they were putting pressure on the agent to get this resolved ASAP while trying to support "Q".

Those were the big ones that struck me as useful to share for roster discussion.

1 presser has more info than 5 years of DW

 

[coooldude]

1 presser has more info than 5 years of DW

Honestly, a masterful job of taking press pressure off of Warso and the kids.

 

[Hodge]

1 presser has more info than 5 years of DW

Contrast Grier's sober assessment of our prospects with DWJr. talking up Nick Cicek and Gannon Laroque as the future of the Sharks defense.

 

[Friday]

Really hope Haltunnen stays in the AHL. He's a project but if that guy hits, he's scoring 30 a year in the NHL

 

[gaucholoco3]

I'm in the same boat, tbh. Somebody else pointed it out during our 5 on 3 power play vs. Iowa on Saturday, Iowa was just sitting back waiting for us to set up Halttunen, and then moving to take away his shot. The following game, Halttunen did very little. Didn't even register a shot on goal. Relatedly: Our PP1 unit really stunk up the joint that game.

Basically, what I'm saying is he's got to do more 5 on 5, or there's not going to be much point to keeping him. Because teams have already noticed what he does on the power play, and that's where all of his points have come from this season. He could easily wind up being sent back to junior once we get healthier.

Cagnoni on the other hand really started coming into his own last weekend. Keep him. He might not be great on defense, but his offensive creativity makes us so much more dangerous. In a way, he's the type of player I was hoping Ryan Merkley would be.

I can see why Grier mentioned the debate between extra pick touches for Halttunen in the OHL versus the battling and 5 on 5 engagement he would get in the AHL. I do think for his development he won’t get much better from the increased space of the OHL. He could also benefit being with the Cuda strength and conditioning team. The thing is he will struggle but that might be what is best for his development.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Really hope Haltunnen stays in the AHL. He's a project but if that guy hits, he's scoring 30 a year in the NHL

Yeah even if just a 15 goal 4th line PP specialist he could still provide value with his shot.

I just don’t want them to do to him what they did to Coe who is now just running around trying to hit everyone and not making any skill plays.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Yeah even if just a 15 goal 4th line PP specialist he could still provide value with his shot.

I just don’t want them to do to him what they did to Coe who is now just running around trying to hit everyone and not making any skill plays.

I mean Coe never really looked like anything though. He did well as one of the older guys in the OHL while being big and a good skater. He could just skate past people who were too small to hit him without actually using that frame himself.

Atleast Haltunnen has proved his shot is great. If he can improve on one other aspect of the game like you say he could be a bottom-6 PP guy who you give one-timers to. Even if he's not scoring them atleast the other team needs to respect him as a legit option and gives more room for the other 4 guys on the PP

 

[Gecklund]

Contrast Grier's sober assessment of our prospects with DWJr. talking up Nick Cicek and Gannon Laroque as the future of the Sharks defense.

I liked Laroque. Injuries ruined him.

 

[coooldude]

Atleast Haltunnen has proved his shot is great. If he can improve on one other aspect of the game like you say he could be a bottom-6 PP guy who you give one-timers to. Even if he's not scoring them atleast the other team needs to respect him as a legit option and gives more room for the other 4 guys on the PP

Hot take and perhaps too hot... Also perhaps for prospect thread, but I'm not sure I see Halttunen in the long term PP1 plans. Smith likely sits on that left spot top of circle, both for distribution and his right shot one timer. Celebrini on the opposite wing and someone at the QB (one of those two, floating up, or a D man with a shot, currently Walman, future Cagnoni or Dickinson or other). Only if he develops into a truly legit top 6 scorer are you designing your PP around him and moving Smith off that spot.

And if he's a PP2 specialist, he better bring something else to the squad, because as we've seen this year, PP2 is not all that valuable of a spot to be in.

I'm still hoping he keeps developing but I'm not sure he'll be a core part of the future, maybe a depth piece or a trade piece. Of course, everything can change, he's just a kid and we're still just past the nadir of the rebuild with years to go.