Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

If no one wants Bordeleau in even a change of scenery trade, then fine. But I refuse to believe that there is any downside to signing him to his QO and letting him start with the Cuda. We currently have 33 contracts. 33 out of 50.

When we sign the 8 additional forwards and 4 additional defensemen we need to ice a full NHL roster, that number goes up to 45. Grier has already said he plans to sign a veteran 3rd goalie which would be 46. You never want to operate at the full 50 especially when there's a chance we sign someone like Lund or Pohlkamp once their college season ends so realistically there are maybe 2 usable slots remaining. We can find a better use for them than Bordeleau.

 

[Gecklund]

Because I absolutely don’t want to work. Here are my trade scenarios that absolutely won’t happen but basically using our cap space to move up:

Cal Petersen + 12th overall for 14th overall

JG Pageau + 20th overall for 33rd overall (throw in another pick if we need because that’s a bit of a jump)

Call up Seattle and see if they’ll dump a dman and 8th overall for 12th overall

Go into the draft with 1st overall, 8th overall, and 20th overall and start the building around Celebrini and Smith with Pageau and an extra dman

 

[Juxtaposer]

When we sign the 8 additional forwards and 4 additional defensemen we need to ice a full NHL roster, that number goes up to 45. Grier has already said he plans to sign a veteran 3rd goalie which would be 46. You never want to operate at the full 50 especially when there's a chance we sign someone like Lund or Pohlkamp once their college season ends so realistically there are maybe 2 usable slots remaining. We can find a better use for them than Bordeleau.

So dump Weisblatt or one of the other many worse players we have under contract.

 

[hohosaregood]

So dump Weisblatt or one of the other many worse players we have under contract.

Definitely dump Coe, Robins, and Ozzy before Bordeleau.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When we sign the 8 additional forwards and 4 additional defensemen we need to ice a full NHL roster, that number goes up to 45. Grier has already said he plans to sign a veteran 3rd goalie which would be 46. You never want to operate at the full 50 especially when there's a chance we sign someone like Lund or Pohlkamp once their college season ends so realistically there are maybe 2 usable slots remaining. We can find a better use for them than Bordeleau.

One, that number of contracts is still more than fine to keep Bordeleau. Two, at the end of the college season we will have likely rented off four players which will provide plenty of room on that front. There's enough room to keep Bordeleau for at least another couple years. Walking away w/o a good reason is just not a good idea.

 

[WSS11]

When we sign the 8 additional forwards and 4 additional defensemen we need to ice a full NHL roster, that number goes up to 45. Grier has already said he plans to sign a veteran 3rd goalie which would be 46. You never want to operate at the full 50 especially when there's a chance we sign someone like Lund or Pohlkamp once their college season ends so realistically there are maybe 2 usable slots remaining. We can find a better use for them than Bordeleau.

Did Bordeleau punch your cat or something?

 

[Hodge]

So dump Weisblatt or one of the other many worse players we have under contract.

Definitely dump Coe, Robins, and Ozzy before Bordeleau.

Except you can't just "dump" players who are under contract. Do you want to buy Robins and Wiesblatt out just to keep Bordeleau? Nobody is trading for our crappiest prospects.

One, that number of contracts is still more than fine to keep Bordeleau. Two, at the end of the college season we will have likely rented off four players which will provide plenty of room on that front. There's enough room to keep Bordeleau for at least another couple years. Walking away w/o a good reason is just not a good idea.

Another couple years?!? The entire point of a functioning farm system during a rebuild is to evaluate prospects for the duration of their ELC then flush out the ones who failed to establish themselves as NHLers in favor of the next crop of prospects. Development opportunity is a finite resource.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Except you can't just "dump" players who are under contract. Do you want to buy Robins and Wiesblatt out just to keep Bordeleau? Nobody is trading for our crappiest prospects.


Another couple years?!? The entire point of a functioning farm system during a rebuild is to evaluate prospects for the duration of their ELC then flush out the ones who failed to establish themselves as NHLers in favor of the next crop of prospects. Development opportunity is a finite resource.

The next crop of prospects are not ready to use the resources available to us which is why we can afford to spend it on Bordeleau. Make an actual case for enough people to where you can legitimately exclude Bordeleau as one of the 47 or 48 contracts against our limit. So far, you're just wanting to dump a guy for the mystery box. The way I see the contracts looking for the Sharks, there's plenty of room to keep Bordeleau since nobody on our reserve list except for Havelid may count against that number and nobody but Celebrini in the draft is going to count against that number. We also have other options to get rid of someone before Bordeleau. Why would we let Bordeleau walk when we can buy out Knyzhov or Todd or Sabourin who are only veteran presences for the AHL team? You just want to feed your own ego about this.

 

[Hodge]

The next crop of prospects are not ready to use the resources available to us which is why we can afford to spend it on Bordeleau. Make an actual case for enough people to where you can legitimately exclude Bordeleau as one of the 47 or 48 contracts against our limit. So far, you're just wanting to dump a guy for the mystery box. The way I see the contracts looking for the Sharks, there's plenty of room to keep Bordeleau since nobody on our reserve list except for Havelid may count against that number and nobody but Celebrini in the draft is going to count against that number. We also have other options to get rid of someone before Bordeleau. Why would we let Bordeleau walk when we can buy out Knyzhov or Todd or Sabourin who are only veteran presences for the AHL team? You just want to feed your own ego about this.

The burden of proof is on the people who want to sign Bordeleau, considering he is not under contract for next season. So far the only argument I've seen is "ehhh what the hell, might as well just sign him."

Is it too much to ask that we only sign players who have a legit role on the NHL team or whose future potential we're excited by?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The burden of proof is on the people who want to sign Bordeleau, considering he is not under contract for next season. So far the only argument I've seen is "ehhh what the hell, might as well just sign him."

Is it too much to ask that we only sign players who have a legit role on the NHL team or whose future potential we're excited by?

You have every bit of the burden of proof for the claim that your action is the best way to go just like everyone else. The argument for keeping Bordeleau is that he's only 22 and can still grow as a player while having some NHL experience already. To answer your question, it should be quite obvious that the answer is yes that's too much to ask. I'm surprised you had to ask such a ridiculous question. We're a rebuilding team. We're not going to have that many players and we need to take some risks even with Celebrini and Smith coming onboard. We're not going to have 47 or 48 guys that either have a legit role on the NHL team or whose future potential we're excited by. We're still going to have Nikolai Knyzhov, Nathan Todd, and Scott Sabourin as guys who don't fit that description. We still have plenty of ELC's where the guys probably have no real NHL future between guys like Russell, Wiesblatt, Robins, Pulli, Guryev, Furlong, Laroque, Thompson, Romanov, and Chrona. Any of those last 10 guys are guys they could mutually terminate their contracts to let them move on elsewhere if it meant keeping someone much closer to an NHL role/future potential like Bordeleau.

It just feels like your take is shortsighted and motivated more by spite than anything else. If you legitimately believe that there are more efficient uses of the contracts we have to give out, I'm glad to hear about it but we're not going to have 47 or 48 guys with NHL roles or high future potential. We're a very long way off of good drafting for that.

 

[Hodge]

You have every bit of the burden of proof for the claim that your action is the best way to go just like everyone else. The argument for keeping Bordeleau is that he's only 22 and can still grow as a player while having some NHL experience already. To answer your question, it should be quite obvious that the answer is yes that's too much to ask. I'm surprised you had to ask such a ridiculous question. We're a rebuilding team. We're not going to have that many players and we need to take some risks even with Celebrini and Smith coming onboard. We're not going to have 47 or 48 guys that either have a legit role on the NHL team or whose future potential we're excited by. We're still going to have Nikolai Knyzhov, Nathan Todd, and Scott Sabourin as guys who don't fit that description. We still have plenty of ELC's where the guys probably have no real NHL future between guys like Russell, Wiesblatt, Robins, Pulli, Guryev, Furlong, Laroque, Thompson, Romanov, and Chrona. Any of those last 10 guys are guys they could mutually terminate their contracts to let them move on elsewhere if it meant keeping someone much closer to an NHL role/future potential like Bordeleau.

It just feels like your take is shortsighted and motivated more by spite than anything else. If you legitimately believe that there are more efficient uses of the contracts we have to give out, I'm glad to hear about it but we're not going to have 47 or 48 guys with NHL roles or high future potential. We're a very long way off of good drafting for that.

The guys you listed are already signed. Many of those contracts precede Grier even getting hired. Why would someone like Mitchell Russell agree to terminate his contract when it's the last NHL contract he will ever sign?

Anyway, the contract slot consideration is only one reason not to qualify Bordeleau. The biggest reasons are that he is too slow, small and soft to ever be an effective bottom six forward and if he was going to develop enough offense to make it in the top six he would have shown it by now.

 

[hohosaregood]

The burden of proof is on the people who want to sign Bordeleau, considering he is not under contract for next season. So far the only argument I've seen is "ehhh what the hell, might as well just sign him."

Is it too much to ask that we only sign players who have a legit role on the NHL team or whose future potential we're excited by?

Jux already brought it up that he's a good AHL forward in the worst case scenario. Keep him around at the AHL level to insulate the next group coming up. We've been lamenting the lack of good AHL playets so why just drop a good one and waste our time hunting for a minor league lifer that wants to play here despite Bay Area COL significantly cutting into their pay.

 

[Star Platinum]

Look at teams that win these days... It's a requirement to have that style to your team game to get where we want to go. This idea that we need to "win the right way" with all skill and good guys is ill conceived and unrealistic. Need some pricks to be a good team. Just the way this sport works.

Piss on old-time hockey!

 

[Hodge]

Jux already brought it up that he's a good AHL forward in the worst case scenario. Keep him around at the AHL level to insulate the next group coming up. We've been lamenting the lack of good AHL playets so why just drop a good one and waste our time hunting for a minor league lifer that wants to play here despite Bay Area COL significantly cutting into their pay.

But why give Bordeleau top offensive/PP minutes on the Cuda over Bystedt, Graf and Cardwell who may actually have a future on the Sharks? Not to mention we have plenty of other good AHL forwards signed already (therefore harder to get rid of) like Gushchin, Todd and Sabourin. Robins and Wiesblatt are already signed too and IMO have at least some small chance of becoming 4th liners which is a role Bordeleau will never be suited for.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

They should over pay Perron for 2 years to mentor the kids

 

[Gecklund]

But why give Bordeleau top offensive/PP minutes on the Cuda over Bystedt, Graf and Cardwell who may actually have a future on the Sharks? Not to mention we have plenty of other good AHL forwards signed already (therefore harder to get rid of) like Gushchin, Todd and Sabourin. Robins and Wiesblatt are already signed too and IMO have at least some small chance of becoming 4th liners which is a role Bordeleau will never be suited for.

to create competition.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The guys you listed are already signed. Many of those contracts precede Grier even getting hired. Why would someone like Mitchell Russell agree to terminate his contract when it's the last NHL contract he will ever sign?

Anyway, the contract slot consideration is only one reason not to qualify Bordeleau. The biggest reasons are that he is too slow, small and soft to ever be an effective bottom six forward and if he was going to develop enough offense to make it in the top six he would have shown it by now.

So what if they're already signed? So what if a whopping four of those contracts precede Grier? Someone like Russell might agree to it because he feels there is a better opportunity elsewhere. He's only going to get 80k salary as a minor leaguer. Maybe someone else will offer him a better contract to play in the AHL. Maybe he gets an offer to play in one of the pro leagues overseas. This stuff happens. Any of these guys can be removed fairly easily if that's honestly what it took to keep Bordeleau. They just don't have to do any of that.

As for the other reasons you now decide to throw out there, that's okay. Maybe he never gets to be a top six or bottom six in the NHL. The team still needs depth pieces from the AHL that you may call up to fill in. We signed Ryan Carpenter to be an AHL veteran and he ended up spending most of the season filling in for injuries. Bordeleau can be a guy that fills a role like that in the next two years w/o having to throw someone in there who may not be ready for such an opportunity.

 

[Hodge]

So what if they're already signed? So what if a whopping four of those contracts precede Grier? Someone like Russell might agree to it because he feels there is a better opportunity elsewhere. He's only going to get 80k salary as a minor leaguer. Maybe someone else will offer him a better contract to play in the AHL. Maybe he gets an offer to play in one of the pro leagues overseas. This stuff happens. Any of these guys can be removed fairly easily if that's honestly what it took to keep Bordeleau. They just don't have to do any of that.

As for the other reasons you now decide to throw out there, that's okay. Maybe he never gets to be a top six or bottom six in the NHL. The team still needs depth pieces from the AHL that you may call up to fill in. We signed Ryan Carpenter to be an AHL veteran and he ended up spending most of the season filling in for injuries. Bordeleau can be a guy that fills a role like that in the next two years w/o having to throw someone in there who may not be ready for such an opportunity.

I would honestly rather re-sign Carpenter, Bailey and/or Studnicka than Bordeleau. They can contribute more to the Sharks than Bordeleau in case of an injury and they're not going to pout if they get zero PP time or crappy linemates in the AHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I would honestly rather re-sign Carpenter, Bailey and/or Studnicka than Bordeleau. They can contribute more to the Sharks than Bordeleau in case of an injury and they're not going to pout if they get zero PP time or crappy linemates in the AHL.

Who said Bordeleau is going to pout over anything? All your suggestions are guys who suck and aren't going to get any better and are older than Bordeleau. None of those guys are even remotely close to being a net zero impact for the Sharks. They're all large negatives. Just because you throw the occasional hit or take the occasional shift on the PK or take the occasional faceoff doesn't actually mean you're more versatile if none of those things lead to positive outcomes. Guys like Bailey and Kunin have a decent hit per 60 number but what actual impact does that have? They still lose and by a lot because they're typically out of position. Carpenter takes the occasional draw and the occasional PK shift but he's not holding his own in either of those situations. You still need guys in the AHL that you can call up and put into the top six if you have the extra body. Bordeleau can be that guy and that's fine.

 

[Hodge]

Who said Bordeleau is going to pout over anything? All your suggestions are guys who suck and aren't going to get any better and are older than Bordeleau. None of those guys are even remotely close to being a net zero impact for the Sharks. They're all large negatives. Just because you throw the occasional hit or take the occasional shift on the PK or take the occasional faceoff doesn't actually mean you're more versatile if none of those things lead to positive outcomes. Guys like Bailey and Kunin have a decent hit per 60 number but what actual impact does that have? They still lose and by a lot because they're typically out of position. Carpenter takes the occasional draw and the occasional PK shift but he's not holding his own in either of those situations. You still need guys in the AHL that you can call up and put into the top six if you have the extra body. Bordeleau can be that guy and that's fine.

Why would we need to call someone up from the AHL to play in our top six? We should aim to build a team deep enough that one of our third liners can easily move up and the AHL call up either plays on the 4th line or sits in the press box. Carpenter, Bailey and Studnicka are ideal for this role. They're also better players than Bordeleau in general which means they will help make the Cuda more competitive than Bordeleau would.

All this being said, I won't be surprised if Grier signs Bordeleau and agree there isn't a huge downside risk or anything like that. I just also don't see any upside whatsoever which is why I wouldn't do it. Hopefully Grier finds a way to trade him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Why would we need to call someone up from the AHL to play in our top six? We should aim to build a team deep enough that one of our third liners can easily move up and the AHL call up either plays on the 4th line or sits in the press box. Carpenter, Bailey and Studnicka are ideal for this role. They're also better players than Bordeleau in general which means they will help make the Cuda more competitive than Bordeleau would.

All this being said, I won't be surprised if Grier signs Bordeleau and agree there isn't a huge downside risk or anything like that. I just also don't see any upside whatsoever which is why I wouldn't do it. Hopefully Grier finds a way to trade him.

You should want both an AHL'er capable of temporary slotting into a top six and a group of depth skaters at the NHL level capable of moving up. And a resounding no they are not ideal for that role and aren't better players than Bordeleau. Bordeleau may be one-dimensional and inconsistent with that but those other players are zero-dimensional and suck.

 

[TealManV]

Depends on the price. If Tampa wants to get out of that contract for 14 and not much else then I’d consider it.

Do you view him as a top pair guy that they could build around?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Do you view him as a top pair guy that they could build around?

Top pair guy, yes. Top guy? Probably not but probably good enough that if you got another one like him, you could build a legitimate blue line.

 

[sharski]

Vlasic is doing more than his share of helping the Sharks get to the cap floor

it's a thankless job and he's doing it at a high level

 

[weastern bias]

Bordeleau provides zero value when he isn't scoring. When Kunin isn't scoring he still hits, kills penalties, drops the gloves and is reportedly a leader in the room. I could take or leave Zadina but at least he has established himself as a NHL depth player unlike Bordeleau.

Kunin throws hits that leave him out of position, is a terrible penalty killer, isn't good at fighting (though, full marks for being willing) and isn’t leading anyone to anything of any significance

The idea that he's more valuable than a younger player who is at least a serviceable injury call up in Bordeleau just because he does more things but does them very poorly is ridiculous

Zadina has also not established himself as a depth player, he got regular healthy scratches on the 2024 Sharks, he's the one we should be questioning tendering a QO, not Bordeleau