Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[DG93]

Seriously, if Musty and Muhk pan out the way we all hope, getting them and Zetterlund for Meier is an absolute steal. Funny considering how mocked we were after the trade.

That's what happens when you move a star player, you're never going to be perceived as winning a trade (unless you dump 40M of Karlsson's contract while getting a 1st, that's pretty solid all around lol)

 

[Sendhelplease]

That's what happens when you move a star player, you're never going to be perceived as winning a trade (unless you dump 40M of Karlsson's contract while getting a 1st, that's pretty solid all around lol)

Even in the Karlsson trade we were being mocked for losing the trade... I think people (especially HF Boards) tend to overvalue big pieces in trades and undervalue trades that offer multiple pieces.

 

[dmcccdmn]

That's what happens when you move a star player, you're never going to be perceived as winning a trade (unless you dump 40M of Karlsson's contract while getting a 1st, that's pretty solid all around lol)

Meier is only borderline star though. I'm interested in seeing if Musty can get to Meier level. Everything else would be bonus.

 

[landshark]

Timo has 36 points (19 goals) and is -23

Zetter has 32 (18 goals) points and is -22

I know plus minus isn't a great indicator. I do find the production numbers being so close kinda comical tho given how much more talented the Devils are overall than the Sharks.

Does this mean Zetterlund gonna have a 10M qualifying offer?

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even in the Karlsson trade we were being mocked for losing the trade... I think people (especially HF Boards) tend to overvalue big pieces in trades and undervalue trades that offer multiple pieces.

I don't think that's fair. Pre-Covid, that indeed would have been a very underwhelming return. People hadn't adjusted expectations to the new situation.

This is even true currently. I can't believe that Hanifin is apparently only going to get 7 million/season. In that alternate universe he's probably getting 10...

 

[Friday]

Timo has 36 points (19 goals) and is -23

Zetter has 32 (18 goals) points and is -22

I know plus minus isn't a great indicator. I do find the production numbers being so close kinda comical tho given how much more talented the Devils are overall than the Sharks.

Does this mean Zetterlund gonna have a 10M qualifying offer?

He really turned into the ideal tweener 3rd liner. Zetterlund got a motor on him

 

[Jargon]

He really turned into the ideal tweener 3rd liner. Zetterlund got a motor on him

I think he’ll be a potentially good Leonard replacement for Smith.

 

[tiburon12]

I don't think that's fair. Pre-Covid, that indeed would have been a very underwhelming return. People hadn't adjusted expectations to the new situation.

This is even true currently. I can't believe that Hanifin is apparently only going to get 7 million/season. In that alternate universe he's probably getting 10...

This is an important thing to remember and one that is still being realized this season.

Remember back in 2007 when we traded Gorges and a 1st for a rental Rivet? or in 2008 when we traded Bernier and a 1st for a rental Brian Campbell? and how neither of those trades had retention?

Well rentals Chris Tanev only went for a 2nd, Hanafin for a 1st with insane conditions, Toffoli went for a 2nd and 3rd, and all of those trades had retention.

I think people still evaluate trades under the pre-Covid prism instead of adjusting their return expectations. And it's much easier to dunk of a trade with "poor" return rather than exercise logical thinking.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I think he’ll be a potentially good Leonard replacement for Smith.

If that's the case we should be able to re-create the BC line relatively easy then. Finding a complimentary playmaking W to model what Perrault does to that line is easier than trying to replace the other two. And that's no discredit to Perrault, but history has shown purely offensive Ws are the easiest things to find.

 

[landshark]

If that's the case we should be able to re-create the BC line relatively easy then. Finding a complimentary playmaking W to model what Perrault does to that line is easier than trying to replace the other two. And that's no discredit to Perrault, but history has shown purely offensive Ws are the easiest things to find.

sounds like a job for Gushchin?

 

[coooldude]

If that's the case we should be able to re-create the BC line relatively easy then. Finding a complimentary playmaking W to model what Perrault does to that line is easier than trying to replace the other two. And that's no discredit to Perrault, but history has shown purely offensive Ws are the easiest things to find.

Eklund.

The problem with that line in the NHL (Ek, Smith, Zetts) is, it's too small and not quite fast enough.

So you'd need a better Leonard replacement. That's either Musty, or as yet to be drafted Lindstrom or other power forward.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

If that's the case we should be able to re-create the BC line relatively easy then. Finding a complimentary playmaking W to model what Perrault does to that line is easier than trying to replace the other two. And that's no discredit to Perrault, but history has shown purely offensive Ws are the easiest things to find.

Musty - Smith - Eklund

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Eklund.

The problem with that line in the NHL (Ek, Smith, Zetts) is, it's too small and not quite fast enough.

So you'd need a better Leonard replacement. That's either Musty, or as yet to be drafted Lindstrom or other power forward.

Musty - Smith - Eklund

Eklund-Celebrini-Zetterlund
Musty-Smith-Granlund/FA in summer 2025

Then just hope for some good development.

 

[STL Shark]

There were some devils fans that were saying Zetterlund had high potential. With NJD he was clearly not given a real opportunity due to their depth. It would be really cool if he could be the Chris Kunitz to one of our young Cs. He could be a great linemate for Smith.

I was one that was very quick to come to Zetterlund's defense here over the summer when some were saying he shouldn't even be qualified as an RFA. My stance then (and now) was just about how hard it is for a youngster to be traded midseason from the org that drafted him and was competing for a Stanley Cup to a team that was a lottery team and just trying to ride out the final handful of games. You were never going get a comfortable and acclimated version of Zetterlund last year and I think this year is much more to his true form (even if the raw point totals are inflated by playing more minutes than he likely will at any other time of his career).

Long-term, I think he's that ideal 2/3 tweener in the middle 6 that can be a consistent 35-40 point contributor. Hope the team gets good fast enough to be able to utilize him in his prime over the next few years (which requires landing Celebrini probably). If not, someone would probably pay a nice sum of assets for a guy like him next TDL.

 

[mogambomoroo]

In a case that Sharks get Celebrini, how would you see the line up?

I feel like the pair system could work, with getting young guys in pairs with a NHL caliber player.
Between Celebrini, Eklund, Smith and Musty I feel like the coaching team should instantly be working on the chemistry. That's instantly the first thing I would work on if all of them make it out the camp.
For example for forwards:
Eklund - Granlund - Smith
Musty - Celebrini - Zetterlund (Celebrini is the only center, so this could be a wild card)
X - Bordeleau - Zadina (depth chemistry, until Edström is ready)
Kostin - Sturm - Bailey

It could easily go this way also:
Musty - Granlund - Smith (two centers)
Eklund - Celebrini - Zetterlund (Eklund could exchange the center position with Celebrini)

With defence I want Mukhamadullin to get the best possible RD that is available in the free agency, all about the growth with a NHL caliber defencemen.
Mukhamadullin - FA RD (Roy, Pesce etc)
Ferraro - Emberson
Thrun - Rutta/Vlasic/Benning/Addison/Burroughs

Goalies are what they are, hope they do good.

All in all if Sharks win the lottery, you need to make a changes for the better. Small but calculated steps. Get the chemistry going and bring some help to some areas. But don't go full on FA shopping, address some areas and let the youngsters cook.

 

[Hodge]

In a case that Sharks get Celebrini, how would you see the line up?

I feel like the pair system could work, with getting young guys in pairs with a NHL caliber player.
Between Celebrini, Eklund, Smith and Musty I feel like the coaching team should instantly be working on the chemistry. That's instantly the first thing I would work on if all of them make it out the camp.
For example for forwards:
Eklund - Granlund - Smith
Musty - Celebrini - Zetterlund (Celebrini is the only center, so this could be a wild card)
X - Bordeleau - Zadina (depth chemistry, until Edström is ready)
Kostin - Sturm - Bailey

It could easily go this way also:
Musty - Granlund - Smith (two centers)
Eklund - Celebrini - Zetterlund (Eklund could exchange the center position with Celebrini)

With defence I want Mukhamadullin to get the best possible RD that is available in the free agency, all about the growth with a NHL caliber defencemen.
Mukhamadullin - FA RD (Roy, Pesce etc)
Ferraro - Emberson
Thrun - Rutta/Vlasic/Benning/Addison/Burroughs

Goalies are what they are, hope they do good.

All in all if Sharks win the lottery, you need to make a changes for the better. Small but calculated steps. Get the chemistry going and bring some help to some areas. But don't go full on FA shopping, address some areas and let the youngsters cook.

Kostin - Granlund - Zetterlund (vs. opposing top lines)
Eklund - Celebrini - Smith (kid line vs. opposing middle six w/ majority OZ starts)
Zadina - Sturm - Kunin (bury with DZ starts)
Carrier - Goodrow - Duhaime (energy line of overpaid vets)

Ferraro - Emberson
Vlasic - Benning
Thrun - Rutta

Blackwood
Vanecek

Assuming Couture's on IR. I would prefer to keep Shak in the AHL for at least the first half of the season since he's still waiver exempt. Carrier and Duhaime are mostly just placeholders for UFA forwards under 30 we can overpay for toughness and leadership. Rangers have traded their next three 2nds so I'm not sure what they can even offer us to take Goodrow but I still like the idea of bringing him back.

If we don't land Celebrini I would move Smith to center and try to sign a UFA like Toffoli. Ultimately this should still 100% be a tank roster but Eklund and Smith need some talented linemate options.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think he’ll be a potentially good Leonard replacement for Smith.

We have the swedish versions of Perrault and Leonard for sure.

 

[Eklund72]

If we get Celebrini I would look to add a bigger, ideally young RW to play with him. As others said, Eklund (5’10) Smith (6’0) and Celebrini (6’0) are all relatively small. If Musty makes the team that would help.


Eklund-Celebrini-Big RW
Musty-Granlund-Smith

I could see this top 6 perform well but as someone said getting more puck moving D is probably pretty important for them to succeed.

 

[Jargon]

I suspect Smith is going to continue playing center. I think if anything it’ll be like:

Eklund - Celebrini - Granlund
Musty - Smith - Zetterlund
Kostin - FA vet C or Cooch - Bordeleau/Zadina

I suspect if Musty makes it he’ll get the Carlsson treatment so when he’s not playing, you put Zadina / Guschin / Bordeleau in his place.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think Granlund has to stay at C and both Smith and Celebrini should also play C.

Kostin - Granlund - Kunin
Eklund - Smith - Zetterlund
Musty - Celebrini - Zadina
Bailey - Sturm - G Smith

The top line can shelter the two young C’s so they can face easier competition. Kunin and Zadina can hopefully be replaced by better players as they start to compete.

For the D I really want a UFA RD.

Muk - Pesce
Ferraro - Emberson
Thrun - Rutta
Vlassic

No idea what to do with Addison, Benning, and Burroughs.

 

[STL Shark]

I suspect Smith is going to continue playing center. I think if anything it’ll be like:

Eklund - Celebrini - Granlund
Musty - Smith - Zetterlund
Kostin - FA vet C or Cooch - Bordeleau/Zadina

I suspect if Musty makes it he’ll get the Carlsson treatment so when he’s not playing, you put Zadina / Guschin / Bordeleau in his place.

Agree. Long-term, one of Smith or Eklund have to be able to slot in as a legit NHL center. If it's Smith, maybe you shelter that line in terms of zone starts and sort of load up a PP Light type of line that wreaks havoc in the offensive zone while having very real defensive limitations? Something to ponder.

I think it is unwise to rush a guy like Musty right now. No reason to burn his ELC unless he's ready to be a full go NHLer. Can't go too DW and just start handing young guys jobs rather than earning it. Let Musty dominate juniors again (thanks to the idiotic NHL-CHL agreement) and be a leader on the USA WJC team looking to repeat. Then after he's done with all of that, bring him over in 2025-26 where he can be shuttled between the Cuda and Sharks if things are not going well for him.

Eklund-Celebrini-Zetterlund
Kostin-Granlund-Zadina
UFA-Smith-Kunin
UFA-Sturm-Bailey

 

[Jargon]

Agree. Long-term, one of Smith or Eklund have to be able to slot in as a legit NHL center. If it's Smith, maybe you shelter that line in terms of zone starts and sort of load up a PP Light type of line that wreaks havoc in the offensive zone while having very real defensive limitations? Something to ponder.

I think it is unwise to rush a guy like Musty right now. No reason to burn his ELC unless he's ready to be a full go NHLer. Can't go too DW and just start handing young guys jobs rather than earning it. Let Musty dominate juniors again (thanks to the idiotic NHL-CHL agreement) and be a leader on the USA WJC team looking to repeat. Then after he's done with all of that, bring him over in 2025-26 where he can be shuttled between the Cuda and Sharks if things are not going well for him.

Eklund-Celebrini-Zetterlund
Kostin-Granlund-Zadina
UFA-Smith-Kunin
UFA-Sturm-Bailey

I’m just worried Musty has nothing to learn there and will learn bad lazy habits from being in a league where he utterly dominates almost every game.

 

[stator]

That's what happens when you move a star player, you're never going to be perceived as winning a trade (unless you dump 40M of Karlsson's contract while getting a 1st, that's pretty solid all around lol)

Moving Meir was all about the QA which is slowly being forgotten about when discussing the trade now.

 

[one2gamble]

I’m just worried Musty has nothing to learn there and will learn bad lazy habits from being in a league where he utterly dominates almost every game.

I agree, he needs to play against people better than him in all zones. He needs to know what it takes to change his game. I dont see how he learns that going back to the same league even if you can argue that there were effort/consistency issues at times.

 

[STL Shark]

I’m just worried Musty has nothing to learn there and will learn bad lazy habits from being in a league where he utterly dominates almost every game.

He's just really young as a July birthday and will be 19 for the entirety of his D+2 season next year. Another example of the NHL-CHL rule being stupid in its rigidity.