Speculation: 2023-24-25-26 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Star Platinum]

Sherwood is the most physical forward in the league

He's not

 

[Star Platinum]

Sherwood's shot rate means he will score 20 goals in a season even at his career average SH% of 11.3

Graf's shot rate means he needs to shoot 18% to score 20 goals in a season

Sherwood isn't going to be on the Shark's top power play unit like he was in Vancouver. His goal scoring is going to plummet.

 

[Star Platinum]

Paying Graf $6 million a year to be like our 8th best forward is not a good use of cap space.

At the right price, Graf is the kind of guy you can make an effective third line out of that provides some defensive resistance while not being useless offensively and who can be a decent third wing on a Top 2 line when injuries strike your better players.

 

[Star Platinum]

Graf untradable albatross

Advocate Nurse

I big smart

This good logic

 

[sampler]

The Sharks don't need a big fish to add to their blue line to move forward with their process. We need to just take the best deal available to fill a hole on the blue line and work through it until something better comes along while getting some development from the younger players.

I have come around to agreeing with this. I think Grier has no interest in going after a big fish and trading big futures to do it.

I expect he'll give Cagnoni his NHL chance especially on the PP. I also expect he'll try to add one more Kesselring-level player with similar size and age who can play a reliable 20-21 mins/gm and kill penalties. Schneider fits that bill exactly. If Grier offers Bystedt and Col 2nd, I expect NYR would jump on that, as I dont think they are gunna get big offers from anyone else.

Having Dick, Mukh, Schneider, and Kesselring, along with Orlov an Cagnoni is not a bad D. It's not a good D, but it's better than last year, and extremely low risk in terms of cap hit and age.

 

[sampler]

As for graf, I expect 5 x 5M or a bridge, 2 x 4M. I would be shocked to see Grier give him 6M, though it's not impossible. Hes a very valuable player with his PK work and that he can slot in anywhere.

 

[Star Platinum]

I’d argue we’d have had a top 15 PK with the pieces we did if it wasn’t for Houda’s INSANELY stupid capped wedge PK. It made Graf look good but the system as a whole is a complete liability. One single guy pressuring and the other three just standing still in a triangle.

I was having a nice relaxing summer until you guys made me think about our penalty kill

 

[Star Platinum]

Hasnt gone well in OTT... i remember when everyone was freaking out about losing Zetterlund.... good times.

I'd happily trade Ottawa Goodrow and the fourth round pick we just got from Boston to get him back if they're having buyer's remorse. Put him, Graf, and Wennberg on a third line and you've got a decent third scoring line and then you can put Sherwood down on the fourth line where he belongs.

 

[weastern bias]

Here's the value of looking at TOI per game for defensemen as evidence of their value/ability.

#3: Ferraro
#4: Klingberg
#6: Llijegren

It still means claiming Kesselring was their #6 is objectively incorrect

It's like saying Ferraro was our #6 this year, when he was actually our (very terrible and overmatched) #3

 

[Pavelski2112]

I'd happily trade Ottawa Goodrow and the fourth round pick we just got from Boston to get him back if they're having buyer's remorse. Put him, Graf, and Wennberg on a third line and you've got a decent third scoring line and then you can put Sherwood down on the fourth line where he belongs.

He just doesn't do enough to justify having him back imo, especially if we end up drafting Stenberg. The Sharks need to put all of their energy into building the defense.

 

[TheBeard]

I was having a nice relaxing summer until you guys made me think about our penalty kill

Could be worse. You could be thinking about the powerplay.

 

[Star Platinum]

Could be worse. You could be thinking about the powerplay.

Watching Carolina in the playoffs did that for me every other day. In that sense, I'm glad hockey is done for a few months.

 

[Star Platinum]

He just doesn't do enough to justify having him back imo, especially if we end up drafting Stenberg. The Sharks need to put all of their energy into building the defense.

If they put a little energy into making me not have to watch Goodrow this year, it would bring me some small sliver of happiness, which I thoroughly deserve.

 

[Star Platinum]

The Sharks don't need a big fish to add to their blue line to move forward with their process. We need to just take the best deal available to fill a hole on the blue line and work through it until something better comes along while getting some development from the younger players.

If they don't get a big fish, they need not to get a Surströmming. I'd rather make Cagnoni the third pairing LHD and live with Orlov at #1LHD and Dickinson at #2LHD than to add either Rielly or Nurse to this squad.

 

[weastern bias]

happiness, which I thoroughly deserve.

 

[TheBeard]

Watching Carolina in the playoffs did that for me every other day. In that sense, I'm glad hockey is done for a few months.

I got permanently banned on Reddit so I can’t even troll the idiots there anymore

 

[SJS1991]

I'd happily trade Ottawa Goodrow and the fourth round pick we just got from Boston to get him back if they're having buyer's remorse. Put him, Graf, and Wennberg on a third line and you've got a decent third scoring line and then you can put Sherwood down on the fourth line where he belongs.

eh.. id rather keep the pick and have 1 more year of Goodrow than 3 additional with Zetterlund. Its pretty clear how SJ wants their 3/4 lines to play. Zetterlund isnt good enough defensively or good enough on the forecheck to be a 4 year investment.

If he isnt scoring he is otherwise useless. And he isnt a good enough scorer to have a spot saved for him up on the 2nd line.

 

[OrrNumber4]

As for graf, I expect 5 x 5M or a bridge, 2 x 4M. I would be shocked to see Grier give him 6M, though it's not impossible. Hes a very valuable player with his PK work and that he can slot in anywhere.

6x6 for Graf could be an absolute steal in 2-3 years.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

My hot take on Graf is that he will be an excellent 3C at some point in his career; and that the Sharks would be wise to start grooming him for that role.

In my mind he is already a top-9 winger in every sense of that descriptor. I literally am fine with him on any line, and barring 1/2C, in any forward role, with heavy PK duties, and on either PP unit. I’d start a contract offer at 5x5 and gauge his interest on signing an even longer term deal. It’ll age well if he just continues being the player he already is. If he manages to take another step this offseason, like he did last, it’ll be the bargain of the century.

If the Sharks can pickup a top/mid-six winger with size sometime between now and the 27-28 season opener, I’d love to start that season with a forward deployment something like this:

XXX - Celebrini - Smith
Chernyshov - Misa - Stenberg
Eklund - Graf - Sherwood
Musty - Wennberg - Toffoli/Haltunnen

Whatever the situation with the defense is, that forward group is absolutely filthy.

 

[Star Platinum]

eh.. id rather keep the pick and have 1 more year of Goodrow than 3 additional with Zetterlund. Its pretty clear how SJ wants their 3/4 lines to play.

Yes it is. They want to have three lines that they pretend are good on defense because if they can't score, they must be really hard to play against for the other team. Only they're not. So if we aren't going to have lines that are good at defense, I'd rather have lower level scoring lines that at least can pot a goal now and then.

Whatever people think of Zetterlund, what people projected his contract was going to be (initial excuse why they didn't want to keep him) ended up being a couple million and several years shorter than predicted. Guys like Graf and Sherwood will be paid more than he is, so he's not any sort of drag on the cap. And if you put somebody that's not inept on offense like Ottawa has mostly done, like say Misa if you insist on pretending than Wennberg is a real 2C for parts of next year, then he can go back to being the 20 goal scorer he was here. And even with less than optimal deployment in Ottawa, he still managed 17 goals there.

If I can dump a completely worthless slug like Goodrow in the process, bringing him back is completely inoffensive to me (he only has 2 years left on his deal compared to Goodrow's one), but people will continue to insist that it's more important to play guys with zero skill that aren't actually that good on defense over him. Most of our bottom 6 plugs don't penalty kill either and half of the guys who do penalty kill don't do it well.

 

[weastern bias]

I good number

You bad number

No smart board but me

 

[jMoneyBrah]

As a digression from things that could actually happen, let me pose an entirely hypothetical question.

I came across one of those AGMs on PuckPedia with like 9 trades involving roughly 27 players and 13 picks, basically all first rounders, somehow flowing through Toronto in a single offseason.

One stop on the crazy trade train was:
Askarov + 27OA for Hildeby + 4OA

What a wild ride. In any case, I would make that trade. My thinking being, that while I am far from given up on Askarov, I don’t particularly subscribe to the “must have all star workhorse goalie to win” school of thought; especially if you’re paying market rate for it. Not that I’m saying Askarov is that yet, but that is the sorta promise of what he could be.

I would rather have a platoon of two solid goalies and have cap space allocated to defense, roster depth, and defensive roster depth; basically aiming for “our goalies don’t prevent us from winning” rather than “our workhorse goalie is the lynchpin to our success”. I feel like more often than not an overall strong roster, with a good system, will win with anything other than abysmal goaltending and “generational amazing brick wall” goaltenders never end up carrying even pretty good teams beyond a couple rounds.

So with that thinking, based on their two very different rookie seasons, what say ye?

Askarov + Stenberg/Reid
—or—
Hildeby + Stenberg + Reid

Flame on!

 

[Surfer Dude]

As a digression from things that could actually happen, let me pose an entirely hypothetical question.

I came across one of those AGMs on PuckPedia with like 9 trades involving roughly 27 players and 13 picks, basically all first rounders, somehow flowing through Toronto in a single offseason.

One stop on the crazy trade train was:
Askarov + 27OA for Hildeby + 4OA

What a wild ride. In any case, I would make that trade. My thinking being, that while I am far from given up on Askarov, I don’t particularly subscribe to the “must have all star workhorse goalie to win” school of thought; especially if you’re paying market rate for it. Not that I’m saying Askarov is that yet, but that is the sorta promise of what he could be.

I would rather have a platoon of two solid goalies and have cap space allocated to defense, roster depth, and defensive roster depth; basically aiming for “our goalies don’t prevent us from winning” rather than “our workhorse goalie is the lynchpin to our success”. I feel like more often than not an overall strong roster, with a good system, will win with anything other than abysmal goaltending and “generational amazing brick wall” goaltenders never end up carrying even pretty good teams beyond a couple rounds.

So with that thinking, based on their two very different rookie seasons, what say ye?

Askarov + Stenberg/Reid
—or—
Hildeby + Stenberg + Reid

Flame on!

i'd hit it easily but no way chicago would

 

[jMoneyBrah]

i'd hit it easily but no way chicago would

Keeping in mind this AGM I’m referencing was for the Leafs and there was an improbably long series of trades that lead to the Leafs acquiring the Blackhawks 4th overall pick and then trading it to the Sharks along with Hildeby.

What I’m saying is this whole thing is completely detached from reality; so the Blackhawks opinion on the matter isn’t really the discussion

 

[Surfer Dude]

Keeping in mind this AGM I’m referencing was for the Leafs and there was an improbably long series of trades that lead to the Leafs acquiring the Blackhawks 4th overall pick and then trading it to the Sharks along with Hildeby.

What I’m saying is this whole thing is completely detached from reality; so the Blackhawks opinion on the matter isn’t really the discussion

i mean i'd do with even without getting hildeby and worry about goalie later to get a top wing and RD in draft. I'd be down with Carels/Smits and Verhoeff with Reid even more. but if you get hildeby however you did that's cool too, i figured that's what it was. it's not real trade anyway so i am not stressing over.
i do like Rave and Kirsh one day with Asky and hope they can draft a Russian goalie in this draft with a sunburn. CP said this draft has lots of goalie talent.