Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[henchman21]

There's no telling how good Kadri would have been this year. He could have repeated his career year, or he could have ended up producing like he did in Calgary. Had we signed him to what he wanted and he produced the way he did, everyone would be furious. Pretty much everyone realized last year was an anomaly as far as Kadris production goes. But now we want to pony up at least 7x7, even though if I recall the ask was higher than he ended up getting. He's already 32. I feel like people have a shortterm memory around here. Kadri priced himself out of Denver, irrespective of Manson.

Avs were in the negotiations until Anaheim signed Klingberg, even with Manson. The Avs just didn't want to pay the price to dump EJ. If they didn't have Manson they would have easily had the room to fit in Kadri. Simply put, the Avs choose Manson, Nuke, and Lehky over Kadri. Kadri could have been swapped for any of them.

On the production side, yeah Kadri wasn't replicating last season, but we know how he fit here. Odds are that he would have produced at a higher level than he did in Calgary. Even without that extra production though, Kadri's all around play and ability to carry a line would have easily pushed the Avs over the top against Seattle. Potentially even over Dallas too. I'd say the odds are high the Avs would be in the WCF right now.

His deal will age poorly and by 34-35, he's certainly a shell of his current self. I stand by the idea that it simply doesn't matter. Avs will be out of their window anyway.

Beyond Kadri though, not addressing the 2C spot at all was a very large mistake. The organization didn't prioritize the position and it bit them. They have to learn the lesson from that. If they don't, we will have another wasted season.

 

[The Abusement Park]

There's no telling how good Kadri would have been this year. He could have repeated his career year, or he could have ended up producing like he did in Calgary. Had we signed him to what he wanted and he produced the way he did, everyone would be furious. Pretty much everyone realized last year was an anomaly as far as Kadris production goes. But now we want to pony up at least 7x7, even though if I recall the ask was higher than he ended up getting. He's already 32. I feel like people have a shortterm memory around here. Kadri priced himself out of Denver, irrespective of Manson.

If we got the Kadri that Calgary got this year, aka his career average. The Avs would probably still be playing hockey right now.

 

[missionAvs]

Just trade Rants, Little G, and our 1st to Toronto for Matthews and Nylander and hate life as we know it. Obviously both Matthews and Nylander get extended to the Duchene cap hit.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Kadri still scored 25 goals and 55 points with the Flames this year. If he had given us that exact same production that still would have been a solid season. We easily beat Seattle with him in the lineup even with the injury to Landy and whatever happened to Nuke.


He also probably produces more then those totals with us. He played over 2 minutes less per game with Calgary last year compared to with the Avs. Over 82 games that's 164 minutes and at Kadri's 2.05 P/60 pace that would be about 6 more points alone with the extra minutes he'd have gotten on the Avs. Then throw in the PP ice time difference as well, Naz probably ends up in the 65-70 bracket with the Avs.


Yeah that contract would look ugly at the end of it... But who cares. We are rebuilding at that point anyway, anything beyond the next ~2 years shouldn't matter. We will be rebuilding.

 

[Balthazar]

Yeah that contract would look ugly at the end of it... But who cares. We are rebuilding at that point anyway, anything beyond the next ~2 years shouldn't matter. We will be rebuilding.

We should trade 26yo Makar in two years and not re-up Rantanen then. That will accelerate the rebuild!

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I mean if we simply acquired a player like Domi the Avs are probably still playing lol. And I’m a Domi hater that was against it.

This is all part of the reason I’m so frustrated with Cmac. It’s not that he made the wrong moves. It’s that this team came off winning a stanley cup, loses some enormous pieces, has endless cap space at the deadline and their addition was Lars Eller. I like Lars Eller. I’m glad they added him. But that just can’t be it.

 

[Balthazar]

In the end, JJ + Eller deadline < Soda + Nemeth deadline

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I mean if we simply acquired a player like Domi the Avs are probably still playing lol. And I’m a Domi hater that was against it.

This is all part of the reason I’m so frustrated with Cmac. It’s not that he made the wrong moves. It’s that this team came off winning a stanley cup, loses some enormous pieces, has endless cap space at the deadline and their addition was Lars Eller. I like Lars Eller. I’m glad they added him. But that just can’t be it.

True. I mean hell Philly couldn't even give JVR away for free.


The Avs could have moved 3rd and 6th round picks for Domi and JVR at the deadline, basically nothing. And there's a pretty good chance we're still watching hockey right now.

 

[The Moops]

In the end, JJ + Eller deadline < Soda + Nemeth deadline

Nah, this one was slightly better. JJ didn't go out of his way to intentionally lose us a series

 

[Balthazar]

Nah, this one was slightly better. JJ didn't go out of his way to intentionally lose us a series

We won a round with these 2, hence the better deadine

But yea the rentals were better this year.

 

[henchman21]

We should trade 26yo Makar in two years and not re-up Rantanen then. That will accelerate the rebuild!

I’d say there is a solid chance than Rantanen prices himself off the Avs. I get this is in jest, but anybody who really thinks the window goes beyond 3 maybe 4 seasons at most is fooling themselves. Old teams don’t win this has been proven over and over again. Avs are roughly two seasons from being old and don’t have any young talent in the pipeline this is bound to make a big difference. A retool is inevitable soon.

 

[Muffin]

Kadri still scored 25 goals and 55 points with the Flames this year. If he had given us that exact same production that still would have been a solid season. We easily beat Seattle with him in the lineup even with the injury to Landy and whatever happened to Nuke.


He also probably produces more then those totals with us. He played over 2 minutes less per game with Calgary last year compared to with the Avs. Over 82 games that's 164 minutes and at Kadri's 2.05 P/60 pace that would be about 6 more points alone with the extra minutes he'd have gotten on the Avs. Then throw in the PP ice time difference as well, Naz probably ends up in the 65-70 bracket with the Avs.


Yeah that contract would look ugly at the end of it... But who cares. We are rebuilding at that point anyway, anything beyond the next ~2 years shouldn't matter. We will be rebuilding.

And Compher had 52 points this season...

If we got the Kadri that Calgary got this year, aka his career average. The Avs would probably still be playing hockey right now.

People forget how bad he was the year before even before he got suspended. His play in Calgary reminded me of that season. Tunnel vision and throwing every puck on net even though it's a bad shot. People need to get over Kadri, last year was a complete outlier and not worth a 7x7 contract.

 

[The Abusement Park]

People forget how bad he was the year before even before he got suspended. His play in Calgary reminded me of that season. Tunnel vision and throwing every puck on net even though it's a bad shot. People need to get over Kadri, last year was a complete outlier and not worth a 7x7 contract.

I mean his bad year 2 years ago is just as much of an outlier as last year.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

And Compher had 52 points this season...

Only 30 points at 5on5 and only 1.52 P/60. Almost half his production came from playing PP1 all year.


Kadri played less minutes then Compher on the Flames and still significantly outproduced him.


The two aren't even comparable. Kadri as the 2C on Colorado this year is a 65-70 guy. No question.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Letting Kadri go was the correct move. However, thinking that JTC or Newhook would be the answer was braindead.

Personally I think this narative that they tought JTC or Newhook was really the solution at 2C is not right. I think its pretty obvious they walked into the year with a view of :

Lando-Mack-Rant
Lehk-2c-Nich
Erod-JTC-Newh
Cog-Helm-LOC

They didn't have enough cap to sign all of Nich-Lehk-Manson-Kadri, but they could sign 3 and then accrue cap untitl the deadline and get the missing link there. They signed Lehk and Nich quickly, then it dragged and they ended-up signing Manson and not Kadri, which seems to show their priority.

The plan was risky but it could have paid-off nicely. Unfortunately the wheels fell-off and everything hit the ditch... they were unable or unwilling to recover and it resulted in a year as wasted and a big disapointment.

The result is a failure from the front office. No question there. I just hate how the naysayers paint it as a garanteed loss from Day 1, from the moment they didn't sign a 2C in the summer or from the moment they signed Manson.

 

[henchman21]

You'd think that we'd learn there is more to being a 2C than pure production. It is a part of it for sure, but not the only thing. Not even close. You'd also think that we'd clearly see it after Compher got dominated by Beniers and Wennberg to the point where Eller had to step in that we'd quit thinking Compher is at all near a 2C level.

 

[henchman21]

Personally I think this narative that they tought JTC or Newhook was really the solution at 2C is not right. I think its pretty obvious they walked into the year with a view of :

Lando-Mack-Rant
Lehk-2c-Nich
Erod-JTC-Newh
Cog-Helm-LOC

They didn't have enough cap to sign all of Nich-Lehk-Manson-Kadri, but they could sign 3 and then accrue cap untitl the deadline and get the missing link there. They signed Lehk and Nich quickly, then it dragged and they ended-up signing Manson and not Kadri, which seems to show their priority.

The plan was risky but it could have paid-off nicely. Unfortunately the wheels fell-off and everything hit the ditch... they were unable or unwilling to recover and it resulted in a year as wasted and a big disapointment.

The result is a failure from the front office. No question there. I just hate how the naysayers paint it as a garanteed loss from Day 1, from the moment they didn't sign a 2C in the summer or from the moment they signed Manson.

They thought Newhook could handle the role and stated as such. They said they had other options if it didn't work. Why they thought that I will never know as it was plain as day that it wouldn't

It would be one thing if this was a one off where the Avs tried this philosophy... but the Avs have done this a bunch over the years. They overrate their own young players for roles and try to force it until they finally come to the realization that it won't work.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think if teams try to "learn" anything from these playoffs it will be to give more leeway to defensemen like Montour.

If you've got a fast, very good skating defensemen he might be primed for more minutes and responsibility next season given Montour's ascent this season and especially playoffs.

 

[Gruyeriev]

I’d say there is a solid chance than Rantanen prices himself off the Avs. I get this is in jest, but anybody who really thinks the window goes beyond 3 maybe 4 seasons at most is fooling themselves. Old teams don’t win this has been proven over and over again. Avs are roughly two seasons from being old and don’t have any young talent in the pipeline this is bound to make a big difference. A retool is inevitable soon.

St. Louis has been floating around an average of 27-28 yrs for at least the past 5 years. They are one of the older teams in the league and still won. Obviously they are rebuilding/retooling now.

Point being we can retool as well and keep a few older players and still have success. Not a GM in the league has the balls to trade Makar and Rantanen now. We will be just like Pittsburg or Chicago in a few years because it’s really hard to move on from good players even as they age. Even Mikko with the less important position is one of the most elite right wings in the league.

 

[henchman21]

St. Louis has been floating around an average of 27-28 yrs for at least the past 5 years. They are one of the older teams in the league and still won. Obviously they are rebuilding/retooling now.

Point being we can retool as well and keep a few older players and still have success. Not a GM in the league has the balls to trade Makar and Rantanen now. We will be just like Pittsburg or Chicago in a few years because it’s really hard to move on from good players even as they age. Even Mikko with the less important position is one of the most elite right wings in the league.

When the Blues won the Cup, they were mostly a 25-28 year old team (primes are statistically 23-27 for most players... so right in that range). Perron was really the only impact player above that age. They had some older guys contribute like JayBo, Steen, and Bozak... But that team was really driven by ROR, Schenn, Pietrangelo, Schwartz, etc. The also got key contributions from their young guys like Thomas and Dunn.

Funny enough their average age that year was 27.2. The Avs average age this season was 28.8 (26.9 in the Cup winning year). The Avs were the 5th oldest team this year. It is a pretty big myth that the Avs are young by Cup winning standards... they are actually more toward the older side of things. The last team to win a Cup with an average age above 28 was the Penguins in 2017 (28.08 IIRC). It just doesn't happen often. (This year only Florida is left under 28... Carolina is the oldest at 28.8 and Vegas and Dallas are 28.2)

More specifically, it becomes very hard to win a Cup when more than 1 player of the core is above 30. Rarely you get 2... you almost never get 3. Avs already have 1 in Landy, will have 2 in Toews (if you consider him part of the core, I don't until he's signed), and within 3 seasons will have 3 more.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Kadri still scored 25 goals and 55 points with the Flames this year. If he had given us that exact same production that still would have been a solid season. We easily beat Seattle with him in the lineup even with the injury to Landy and whatever happened to Nuke.


He also probably produces more then those totals with us. He played over 2 minutes less per game with Calgary last year compared to with the Avs. Over 82 games that's 164 minutes and at Kadri's 2.05 P/60 pace that would be about 6 more points alone with the extra minutes he'd have gotten on the Avs. Then throw in the PP ice time difference as well, Naz probably ends up in the 65-70 bracket with the Avs.


Yeah that contract would look ugly at the end of it... But who cares. We are rebuilding at that point anyway, anything beyond the next ~2 years shouldn't matter. We will be rebuilding.

Watch CMac trade G for Kadri.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I would so give Bertuzzi that contract even though centre is a bigger need than wing.

 

[henchman21]

I would so give Bertuzzi that contract even though centre is a bigger need than wing.

I'll be shocked if Bert is under 6.5m personally... and anybody paying Severson that is out of their goddamned mind!

 

[dahrougem2]

Severson should be forced to show GMs he can defend 2-on-1s before he is allowed to sign a contract.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Watch CMac trade G for Kadri.

With some retention on Kadri I'd take him back in a heartbeat honestly. Flames wouldn't have interest in G though, they have a strong Defense already.

We know we can win the cup with him as our 2C.