Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[dahrougem2]

I tend to agree with you, but that's what has to happen for Newhook to really have an impact. I personally think is focus needs to be on slimming down and putting a ton of work in on his edges. Win battles like Point does by being first and working the angles. He's not going to overpower anybody in the NHL, so don't even try... work the best with what you got.


LeBrun is really the only guy I believe nationally with the Avs. Pagnotta if the player's agent is Brisson. I tend to believe what he puts out there personally.

See I think the edgework he has now is horrific. In general he seems fine but in tight areas and playing angles he's god awful. So many times he'll be chasing down a puck but because he can't work the angles in tight spaces he ends up doing a fly by or having his man evade him with a quick stop and go, and Newhook is lost.

The more I think about it the more I feel Newhook is going to have a Sam Gagner-like career.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Avs are trying to bring JTC back. Bednar loves him and while he certainly isn't a 2C, people have gotten ridiculously carried away with the nonsense that's been said about him.


He's a solid utility 3rd line guy. With RyJo here and hopefully a legit 2C solution for us, having Compher back as a 3rd liner, the Avs could certainly do a lot worse than him on that front.


But I don't think the Avs will pay $5M for JTC. I think pretty clearly what's happening is if JTC is willing to take less money(And a fair bit less as well) to stay with us, the Avs will bring him back. But if the $5-6M deal in UFA us to tempting for him, we'll lose him.


I bet the Avs would be happy to bring JTC back for ~$4M on a 4-5 year deal and that's probably where they are in those negotiations right now if I were to guess.

 

[redacted]

See I think the edgework he has now is horrific. In general he seems fine but in tight areas and playing angles he's god awful. So many times he'll be chasing down a puck but because he can't work the angles in tight spaces he ends up doing a fly by or having his man evade him with a quick stop and go, and Newhook is lost.

The more I think about it the more I feel Newhook is going to have a Sam Gagner-like career.

Yeah he has no strength on his edges currently and is way too easily knocked off them. His flexibility is there, so that should be something he can focus on. Part of it is knowing the right angles and technique though. He's never had to battle in his whole playing career like he has to in the NHL. He was always the first on the puck, so he could retrieve it and have control with an angle he was comfortable with. He never had to learn how to get the puck and survive somebody leaning on him. He also never learned how to be effective being the 2nd guy to the puck. If he doesn't learn how to battle effectively, his career may be short or yeah like Gagner.

 

[Bender]

Newhook got (a lot) more than 5-6 games as a 3C and he showed he really wasn't up to the task in my opinion. I really think if you want to pry Newhook's offensive ability out of him, you have to plant him at the wing in the top 6. For Newhook to stick there, he's gotta learn how to win some battles.

Yes at #3C but never as a fixture on the 1st or 2nd line. He'd take a shift there every once in a while but nothing really steady.

When he was at #3C, he'd have players like Nieto, Cogliano and LOC as his wingers... not exactly a recipe for success.

I still believe he's a good player that's going to continue to get better but I believe it's in his best interest and in the Avs best interest to include him in a trade where we acquire a known quantity - even if there's a good chance we end up losing that trade in the long-run.

I frikkin' HATE IT when Bednar shifts him from line-to-line, wing to center from game to game because I know how something like that screw with someone's confidence. I'd MUCH have preferred it if he had been in the AHL this whole time.

I tend to agree with you, but that's what has to happen for Newhook to really have an impact. I personally think is focus needs to be on slimming down and putting a ton of work in on his edges. Win battles like Point does by being first and working the angles. He's not going to overpower anybody in the NHL, so don't even try... work the best with what you got.


LeBrun is really the only guy I believe nationally with the Avs. Pagnotta if the player's agent is Brisson. I tend to believe what he puts out there personally.

I did say that I believe this is what the Avs are feeding them but not what they believe internally.

 

[Ararana]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Avs are trying to bring JTC back. Bednar loves him and while he certainly isn't a 2C, people have gotten ridiculously carried away with the nonsense that's been said about him.


He's a solid utility 3rd line guy. With RyJo here and hopefully a legit 2C solution for us, having Compher back as a 3rd liner, the Avs could certainly do a lot worse than him on that front.


But I don't think the Avs will pay $5M for JTC. I think pretty clearly what's happening is if JTC is willing to take less money(And a fair bit less as well) to stay with us, the Avs will bring him back. But if the $5-6M deal in UFA us to tempting for him, we'll lose him.


I bet the Avs would be happy to bring JTC back for ~$4M on a 4-5 year deal and that's probably where they are in those negotiations right now if I were to guess.

The Avs dominated their way to a cup with JT3C. Clearly he's fine in that role. But with the UFA class being as bad as it is, some GM is about to do something very stupid for that guy.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yes at #3C but never as a fixture on the 1st or 2nd line. He'd take a shift there every once in a while but nothing really steady.

When he was at #3C, he'd have players like Nieto, Cogliano and LOC as his wingers... not exactly a recipe for success.

I still believe he's a good player that's going to continue to get better but I believe it's in his best interest and in the Avs best interest to include him in a trade where we acquire a known quantity - even if there's a good chance we end up losing that trade in the long-run.

I frikkin' HATE IT when Bednar shifts him from line-to-line, wing to center from game to game because I know how something like that screw with someone's confidence. I'd MUCH have preferred it if he had been in the AHL this whole time.

He started last season as the 2C but Bednar had cut bait with him 10 games or whatever it was because he was so horrific there. I do agree that he needs some continuity in a position and a role, particularly on the wing with guys who can do the dirty work for him.

 

[The Moops]

He started last season as the 2C but Bednar had cut bait with him 10 games or whatever it was because he was so horrific there. I do agree that he needs some continuity in a position and a role, particularly on the wing with guys who can do the dirty work for him.

It was crazy how bad he looked even with Nuke stapled to him at the beginning. Funny how Nuke's game improved as soon as he was away from NewJost. Which is kind of ironic when you compare it to when he was paired up with Jost and made him look like he was a decent NHLer

 

[redacted]

Yes at #3C but never as a fixture on the 1st or 2nd line. He'd take a shift there every once in a while but nothing really steady.

When he was at #3C, he'd have players like Nieto, Cogliano and LOC as his wingers... not exactly a recipe for success.

I still believe he's a good player that's going to continue to get better but I believe it's in his best interest and in the Avs best interest to include him in a trade where we acquire a known quantity - even if there's a good chance we end up losing that trade in the long-run.

I frikkin' HATE IT when Bednar shifts him from line-to-line, wing to center from game to game because I know how something like that screw with someone's confidence. I'd MUCH have preferred it if he had been in the AHL this whole time.


I did say that I believe this is what the Avs are feeding them but not what they believe internally.

Personally, I think guys with high motors on his wings is about his best shot to being able to succeed at center. Those guys are not the most talented, but the work and they win battles. Which allows Newhook to try to find space and utilize his offensive gifts.

As for Bednar's usage... I don't think it is really Bednar's fault. He's trying to win in the NHL and with where the Avs are, he's not in a position to be developmental. If this was 2018, sure. Not with a team expected to contend though. Sucks for Newhook that he can't get planted in an impact role, but it is very much sink or swim on top teams in the NHL. Bednar has shown if you can swim, he's willing to put up with a lot and allow players to grow. If you sink though, he'll demote quick. I put that much more on the front office trying to square peg a round hole.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It was crazy how bad he looked even with Nuke stapled to him at the beginning. Funny how Nuke's game improved as soon as he was away from NewJost

Yeah… he’s gotten plenty of chances but hasn’t taken any of them. Now the FO set him up to fail last year, the dude was very clearly not ready for a 2C level role. I’m hoping they have a plan for him this year and give him some continuity if he’s going to stay here. Because he can’t be bouncing all over the lineup like he was last year, that won’t help him.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

JT3C may have worked for us in the past, but that shit's not going to work if he has Newhook on his wing. That's two-thirds of a line that can't really drive or carry anything themselves, and we won't have the money available to put an impact player next to them.

Anyways, I think Compher is gone for sure.

His agent would have to be braindead not to be convincing his client to wait and get a lifetime deal in free agency. The class sucks, there's slim pickings available, he's a Stanley Cup winner with 2C experience even though we know he's not good there. Not old. Versatile. Good coach's player.

This guy will get paid a stupid amount by somebody. Good for him, but it won't be us, regardless of how much Bednar may like him.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I'd actually argue Jost showed more long-term NHLer than Newhook has. Newhook is a slightly better skater and has a more powerful (but less accurate) shot. Jost had a better motor and much better defensive awareness (he's actually really solid defensively). What Jost is better at, makes him much more of an option in a bottom 6 role. In fact, he's likely carved out a 3rd line spot for the foreseeable future in Buffalo where he's a top PK option up front. If Newhook's offense doesn't come around, you have a defensively lacking, poor battling, and rather low motor bottom 6 guy... those players don't stick forever. Newhook needs to be scoring 45+ points a season to stick long-term in the NHL as nobody is going to keep around a 30 point wing who can't PK or play a defensive role.

I think that's really only shown in the last little while.

Jost with the Avs got caved in on the fourth line. Maybe it's the way the team was built or a change of scenery but nothing suggested solid third liner at the time.

 

[redacted]

Yeah… he’s gotten plenty of chances but hasn’t taken any of them. Now the FO set him up to fail last year, the dude was very clearly not ready for a 2C level role. I’m hoping they have a plan for him this year and give him some continuity if he’s going to stay here. Because he can’t be bouncing all over the lineup like he was last year, that won’t help him.

Newhook very clearly does not have a 2C skill set. That's what drives me the most insane with this whole saga... there are skills needed to be an impact center in the NHL, and for the most part, if you don't have them, you won't succeed. The rare cases where players are lacking in areas it takes some skill being at an absurd level to balance it out. Be it IQ, skating, shot, motor, etc... there just has to be something to latch on to. Newhook doesn't have that stand out skill and as an undersized, slightly above average skating player... he needs to have something that just isn't there. It never has been and it never will be there. IMO this was clear in his draft year, let alone 3 years after.

 

[The Moops]

Anyways, I think Compher is gone for sure.

I think we're all going to get a good chuckle out of how much he gets in UFA. But I say good for him

 

[redacted]

I think that's really only shown in the last little while.

Jost with the Avs got caved in on the fourth line. Maybe it's the way the team was built or a change of scenery but nothing suggested solid third liner at the time.

Jost actually showed a lot of good run as a defensive guy in 19-20 and 20-21. He had a rough final season until he was dealt to Minny for sure, but what he showed in the previous two seasons is basically what he is showing now, maybe even slightly better with the Avs. Kinda pointless though as Jost asked out so he could get a bigger role elsewhere. On his third team, he at least knows who he is at this point and can accept it.

 

[Vaslof]

Newhook very clearly does not have a 2C skill set. That's what drives me the most insane with this whole saga... there are skills needed to be an impact center in the NHL, and for the most part, if you don't have them, you won't succeed. The rare cases where players are lacking in areas it takes some skill being at an absurd level to balance it out. Be it IQ, skating, shot, motor, etc... there just has to be something to latch on to. Newhook doesn't have that stand out skill and as an undersized, slightly above average skating player... he needs to have something that just isn't there. It never has been and it never will be there. IMO this was clear in his draft year, let alone 3 years after.

People said the same about MacKinnon.

 

[Bender]

Personally, I think guys with high motors on his wings is about his best shot to being able to succeed at center. Those guys are not the most talented, but the work and they win battles. Which allows Newhook to try to find space and utilize his offensive gifts.

As for Bednar's usage... I don't think it is really Bednar's fault. He's trying to win in the NHL and with where the Avs are, he's not in a position to be developmental. If this was 2018, sure. Not with a team expected to contend though. Sucks for Newhook that he can't get planted in an impact role, but it is very much sink or swim on top teams in the NHL. Bednar has shown if you can swim, he's willing to put up with a lot and allow players to grow. If you sink though, he'll demote quick. I put that much more on the front office trying to square peg a round hole.

Agree with you there. I really don't blame Bednar as he is trying to win but the Avs need to recognize that they probably shouldn't be in the business of trying to develop Newhook in this window of contention.

 

[redacted]

People said the same about MacKinnon.

They absolutely did not.

 

[The Abusement Park]

People said the same about MacKinnon.

I mean there was talk about Mack not being good at C. But the context between the two players couldn’t be any more different. Mack very easily has the skillset to be a C where Newhook does not.

 

[Ararana]

People said the same about MacKinnon.

 

[Vaslof]

They absolutely did not.

I don't remember names of who did and who didn't, but it was a popular opinion here.

 

[sethro109]

Bednar's love for Compher will always hold us back. Cmac needs to let that little shit walk.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

People said the same about MacKinnon.

Obviously this is false and the situations are not even remotely close. There were doubts if Mack could become a top #1C. He had all the tools needed to get there, but was not able to put it all together at that point.

Newhook doesn't stand out in any way at this level.

 

[redacted]

I don't remember names of who did and who didn't, but it was a popular opinion here.

Some random posters, maybe... but as a popular opinion seems like a stretch. I do recall questions of if he'd be better at wing to simplify his game, but it was never about his skill set, not having a stand out skill, or even being a top 6 center... as MacK even at his lowest point was still very much a 2C quality player.

 

[Metallo]

Some random posters, maybe... but as a popular opinion seems like a stretch. I do recall questions of if he'd be better at wing to simplify his game, but it was never about his skill set, not having a stand out skill, or even being a top 6 center... as MacK even at his lowest point was still very much a 2C quality player.

Yes, that's correct, it was questionned if he would be better at RW or if he could be a mega-star C.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Not close in terms of what, the offer to WPG or the contract with PLD?

He didn't specify. He only said he "thinks" they made a run at him, not that he knew for sure.