Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

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I quoted those messages in response to the Avs not having a lot of cap space not specifically anything other than that.

I was legit asking a question if there was some sort of hidden bonus garbage cap space eater that I hadn't taken into account or wasn't aware of or something like that.

I figured that the numbers would be debated. Some people could argue that Byram at $3.25M is very low for a bridge and they might be right, I just don't believe he's earned more than that with the amount of hockey he's played over his first 3 years.



For that, I think that one year older and one year removed from winning that cup brings both JMFJ and Cogs back down to a 1 year - 850K deal. If they can get more on the open market, more power to them but there is also the possibility that they end up on PTOs real quick as well depending on how free agency pans out.

Fair enough. I think the Avs do have some wiggle room this summer, but I wouldn't say they're swimming in cap space by any means. Landy LTIR money basically just means they can shift that money from a single LWer to spread it out a little over perhaps a 2C and a 3C sort of thing.


But if they don't move a LD they're going to have very little room to do much yet again and the depth will look ugly because of it.

If they can move Girard without having to take a bad contract back, they could build a decent 3rd line.





On another note, If the Devils could lock down the goaltending situation, they're the class of the East over the next 5-6 years for sure.
 
Yeah well, I wouldn't say he's an excellent skater but that isn't a weakness. His issues are he plays zero defense, he's soft, can't pass, can't handle the puck, and very inconsistent effort.
Was gonna say could he be a shitty Bura replacement, but doesn’t sound like.
 
Where is my math wrong ? I'm using Cap Friendly's tool and come to this :

Bare-bones before any moves :
View attachment 718244
Then let's say the Avs make the following moves/signings :
View attachment 718245

So even if you're trading Sammy G just draft picks. (I picked the Habs for fun but it doesn't matter, it can be any team that wants him and has the space)

View attachment 718250

With those moves, even with a 13th forward and 7th d-man in the lineup, the Avs would still have $11.5M in cap space with THREE spots at forward to fill :

Top-6 winger (approx. $5M)
3rd line Center (approx. $3M)
3rd line winger (appox. $3M)

So what am I missing here?
Bender, a couple of thoughts:

One part of that that breaks down for me, is the thought that Lindholm could be had for Newhook, a late 1st, and a mid-tier prospect. I don't think that would move the needle for Calgary. They could probably do better elsewhere.

The other thought is Byram's contract. The Avs are going to sign him for $3M? I'd love it, but that seems pretty light to me.

But the way you filled the rest of the lineup? I think that's spot on. $800K-$1M contracts all over. Perhaps including one of your 3rd line wings.
 
Yeah well, I wouldn't say he's an excellent skater but that isn't a weakness. His issues are he plays zero defense, he's soft, can't pass, can't handle the puck, and very inconsistent effort.
And we don't have the luxury of Cronin in the AHL to buff these tweeners into shape anymore.
 
Bender, a couple of thoughts:

One part of that that breaks down for me, is the thought that Lindholm could be had for Newhook, a late 1st, and a mid-tier prospect. I don't think that would move the needle for Calgary. They could probably do better elsewhere.

The other thought is Byram's contract. The Avs are going to sign him for $3M? I'd love it, but that seems pretty light to me.


But the way you filled the rest of the lineup? I think that's spot on. $800K-$1M contracts all over. Perhaps including one of your 3rd line wings.
I hear ya. It was mostly for the cap considerations but add a 1st round pick if that's going to seal it? The way I look at it is that the Avs probably shouldn't miss this opportunity to get that kind of player if they can. It's too important for our window which we are presently in.

To be honest, I think Newhook gets too much flack on this board. We have a large part of the fanbase that are seemingly convinced that he's never going to pan out like Jost and therefore has no value at all while another part of the fanbase (could be the same part) are pining for the Avs to acquire Barrett Hayton to stick him in the #2C spot.

Hayton outscored Newhook by 13 points but played in a Top-6 role all year long. (4th most ice time amongst Forwards for ARI) He's also a year older and struggled worst than Newhook when he was the same age.

The reality of the situation is that Newhook is a 22 year old young player that has flaws like many other players his age BUT he's also shown the ability to 1) be able to play in the league and 2) produce back to back 30-point seasons in his first 2 years in the league as a bottom-6 guy.

There are some GMs out there that are going to view him as a young guy who needs a bigger opportunity (as they should) with a coach that's willing to be patient. So the value there is certainly NOT nothing... It may not be awesome but teams looking to acquire young talent could do a lot worse. Teams like Calgary and Winnipeg want young players who want to be there and I think Newhook is that type of player.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get that out there.

So if it takes 2 first round picks + former 1st round Newhook to get a deal done - so be it but generally speaking not a lot of players have been traded for that much in the past 20 years. That's why I don't believe the value is as 'way off' as people might think.

There is going to be a really good player available at #27 where we are picking this year and we'll see if the Avs keep or trade the pick.

As for Byram, I'm just going off of what Dobson signed last summer in the same situation (3x$4M) coming off a 51 point season. How can Byram and his agent make a case for something similar or even more when he's played 19, 30 and 42 games in his first three seasons in the league?

Sure, he played very well in our cup run but has been injured in every season. That's likely not going to help him get top dollar so both parties will have to reach some sort of middle ground almost assuredly on a 1 or 2 year deal.
 
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I hear ya. It was mostly for the cap considerations but add a 1st round pick if that's going to seal it? The way I look at it is that the Avs probably shouldn't miss this opportunity to get that kind of player if they can. It's too important for our window which we are presently in.

To be honest, I think Newhook gets too much flack on this board. We have a large part of the fanbase that are seemingly convinced that he's never going to pan out like Jost and therefore has no value at all while another part of the fanbase (could be the same part) are pining for the Avs to acquire Barrett Hayton to stick him in the #2C spot.

Hayton outscored Newhook by 13 points but played in a Top-6 role all year long. (4th most ice time amongst Forwards for ARI) He's also a year older and struggled worst than Newhook when he was the same age.

The reality of the situation is that Newhook is a 22 year old young player that has flaws like many other players his age BUT he's also shown the ability to 1) be able to play in the league and 2) produce back to back 30-point seasons in his first 2 years in the league as a bottom-6 guy.

There are some GMs out there that are going to view him as a young guy who needs a bigger opportunity (as they should) with a coach that's willing to be patient. So the value there is certainly NOT nothing... It may not be awesome but teams looking to acquire young talent could do a lot worse. Teams like Calgary and Winnipeg want young players who want to be there and I think Newhook is that type of player.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get that out there.

So if it takes 2 first round picks + former 1st round Newhook to get a deal done - so be it but generally speaking not a lot of players have been traded for that much in the past 20 years. That's why I don't believe the value is as 'way off' as people might think.

There is going to be a really good player available at #27 where we are picking this year and we'll see if the Avs keep or trade the pick.

As for Byram, I'm just going off of what Dobson signed last summer in the same situation (3x$4M) coming off a 51 point season. How can Byram and his agent make a case for something similar or even more when he's played 19, 30 and 42 games in his first three seasons in the league?

Sure, he played very well in our cup run but has been injured in every season. That's likely not going to help him get top dollar so both parties will have to reach some sort of middle ground almost assuredly on a 1 or 2 year deal.
GMs are weird, but I can’t see any of them valuing Newhook as more than a middle 6 reclamation project. He’s had opportunities with good players and just didn’t do anything with them. I think he’s still got decent upside, but his skill set isn’t high end like he was hyped as. That’s very clear (I’d argue should have been in his draft year). In a vacuum he’s worth something like the 35-40th pick. Maybe a touch less if he’s demanding 2.5-3m where his comparables exist.

Dobson got hardballed by Lou. Simple as that. Could happen with Byram here, but Byram’s ego is a bit more on an issue than Dobsons. He’s gonna target being McAvoy 2.0. Which pushes 5. The numbers aren’t there for it, but that’ll be the target. Hronek is probably the closest to his comparable. Smaller amount of games, half ish point per game, off ELC, played similar role, but less playoff play. He got 4.4 on a slightly lower cap… so 4.5-4.6.
 
They can't move Manson... he has a full NTC and about zero chance he has value right now. Nuke is the same. Ignoring the off ice, he has a full NMC. They can't be moved.

Which basically means Toews, G, Byram, or Lehky. Lehky should be on the table. I'm not saying move him, but I see situations where Lehky has more value than G. If Lehky moves the needle more for a center, then he should rightfully be on the block. His NTC doesn't start until July 1, so there is a tiny window for it, but a window. G is simply dependent on who values him at an appropriate level. Toews is a risky move for the next 2 seasons. Byram has the most value, but also probably the most risk in giving up.

In order of preference, I'd go G > Lehky > Toews = Byram. Those are really the only options for clearing salary.
Only way I agree to trade Lehky is if PLD is coming back on an 8 year deal and even then it would still sting.

Not like we have plenty of options on ELC in the top 6 to replace Lehky, whoever is replacing him will either cost more or you find a flawed guy like eRod on a one year deal if you're lucky.
 
Only way I agree to trade Lehky is if PLD is coming back on an 8 year deal and even then it would still sting.

Not like we have plenty of options on ELC in the top 6 to replace Lehky, whoever is replacing him will either cost more or you find a flawed guy like eRod on a one year deal if you're lucky.
Oh hell no!

I don’t want 5o take the PLD gamble to begin with.
 
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GMs are weird, but I can’t see any of them valuing Newhook as more than a middle 6 reclamation project. He’s had opportunities with good players and just didn’t do anything with them. I think he’s still got decent upside, but his skill set isn’t high end like he was hyped as. That’s very clear (I’d argue should have been in his draft year). In a vacuum he’s worth something like the 35-40th pick. Maybe a touch less if he’s demanding 2.5-3m where his comparables exist.

Dobson got hardballed by Lou. Simple as that. Could happen with Byram here, but Byram’s ego is a bit more on an issue than Dobsons. He’s gonna target being McAvoy 2.0. Which pushes 5. The numbers aren’t there for it, but that’ll be the target. Hronek is probably the closest to his comparable. Smaller amount of games, half ish point per game, off ELC, played similar role, but less playoff play. He got 4.4 on a slightly lower cap… so 4.5-4.6.
Like I said, Newhook's value is not nothing and while I see him a bit differently than you do, I'd say that if you're valuing him at around a high 2nd round pick and I value him a tad bit higher than that... we're certainly in the same ballpark.

As for Byram, I don't doubt that will be the ask but he's an RFA with less leverage than most of those guys because of the health issues. Hronek as a comp is ok but he had also played 167 games and put up 80 points prior to signing that 3 year deal compared to 111 games and 55 points for Byram including playoffs. The PPG is similar but that's still 56 less games played. Byram hasn't been able to play more than 42 games in a regular season and Hronek never played less than 46. I think 'availability' is going to play a role in these negotiations.
 
Like I said, Newhook's value is not nothing and while I see him a bit differently than you do, I'd say that if you're valuing him at around a high 2nd round pick and I value him a tad bit higher than that... we're certainly in the same ballpark.

As for Byram, I don't doubt that will be the ask but he's an RFA with less leverage than most of those guys because of the health issues. Hronek as a comp is ok but he had also played 167 games and put up 80 points prior to signing that 3 year deal compared to 111 games and 55 points for Byram including playoffs. The PPG is similar but that's still 56 less games played. Byram hasn't been able to play more than 42 games in a regular season and Hronek never played less than 46. I think 'availability' is going to play a role in these negotiations.
I think it’ll be tough to get Byram to sign low. If you push too long, offer sheets enter the equation where teams could go the first and third route to make it really difficult. Those have been more of a threat of late too. I don’t think the Byram negotiations are gonna be easy and nobody likely ends up happy.
 
I think it’ll be tough to get Byram to sign low. If you push too long, offer sheets enter the equation where teams could go the first and third route to make it really difficult. Those have been more of a threat of late too. I don’t think the Byram negotiations are gonna be easy and nobody likely ends up happy.
It sucks that Toews can't be re-signed until the 1st. If the Avs knew that deal would happen 100%, I would almost lean into Byram as the preferred LD to trade. I think he could return a lot more than Girard. And lets be fair, Girard does have limitations (I'll argue that pretty much every second pairing dman does) but he's not the trainwreck he's made out to be by some on this board.

I just happen to think the best time to solve the 2C situation will be via trade at the draft. And that almost means you have to look at Toews as the potential chip since his deal will be the most expensive and the least certain to get done. Even though he's currently the best of the bunch. But how much is too much for your top pairing? 20M? Can you afford to do that? I think if he's getting that 8-10M I've heard tossed around, he really needs to be driving his own pairing.
 
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