egelband
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Won’t be a problem if the officials do their job properly.
Prospect Info: 2023-2024 Rangers Prospects Thread (Prospect Stats in Post #1; Updated 05.22.2024)
- Thread starter nyr2k2
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The NHL will eventually get rid of fighting, too. It's an inevitability. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I just think the writing is on the wall and has been for 20 years.
I don't think the kids in junior hockey should fight. A lot of them are legitimately still kids. I always felt kind of weird cheering on a 17 year old kid fighting a 16 year old kid. I would guess that this will become a non-issue in the Q in a year or two and then the other two CHL leagues will follow suit.
The only way to truly protect yourself in a hockey fight is to either refuse to engage or turtle if you're pulled in. If you square up there's always a chance you'll get hurt. We've seen heavies get knocked out plenty of times. The effects of repeated bouts over a career.
It's on its way out whether we like it or not.
I don't think the kids in junior hockey should fight. A lot of them are legitimately still kids. I always felt kind of weird cheering on a 17 year old kid fighting a 16 year old kid. I would guess that this will become a non-issue in the Q in a year or two and then the other two CHL leagues will follow suit.
The only way to truly protect yourself in a hockey fight is to either refuse to engage or turtle if you're pulled in. If you square up there's always a chance you'll get hurt. We've seen heavies get knocked out plenty of times. The effects of repeated bouts over a career.
It's on its way out whether we like it or not.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Harbour Dog
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The bolded is an excellent point.
I tend to view prospects through the lens of what their "value" is. If we have a slightly weaker prospect who gets that value buoyed by increased NHL opportunities, then I can 100% see the reasoning for giving him a bit of a boost.
I still think it's minimal. For the most part, when we need a guy, we're going to recall whoever we think is the best and then shuffle our lineup for it to fit. But the more polarized our lineup depth is toward particular positions, I can see how what you're saying would have an impact.
How much does our current center depth have genuine impact on a Rempe vs. Korczak debate for example? I don't think I'd be willing to weigh it in at all still, but I get it.
I don't know what suspension are like in the Q, but if/when this kind of thing reaches the NHL it's where the league really needs to lift its game.
If you are going to ban fighting, you need to really crack down on the head-shots etc that lead to fights. Not occasionally suspend a player based on how popular they are.
Major + game misconduct (for an illegal hit)? You sit for the next game as well. Multiple offender? Double each time.
Many other sports are able to play full-contact without needing in-game fighting, I'm sure the NHL eventually can figure out to do it as well
The Crypto Guy
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I just dont see fighting ending in the NHL.
As it is, it’s dropped significantly since the 80s and 90s. It will likely keep going down, there are only a handful “enforcers” left in the nhl, but there will always be the need to drop the gloves here and there.
Juniors, yea, they are kids.
As it is, it’s dropped significantly since the 80s and 90s. It will likely keep going down, there are only a handful “enforcers” left in the nhl, but there will always be the need to drop the gloves here and there.
Juniors, yea, they are kids.
eco's bones
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The Q had significantly less fights last year than the WHL or OHL. The most fights by one team in the Q was Charlottetown which had 17. Vancouver had 44 and 8 other WHL teams were over 30...this is for a 72 game schedule. The OHL only had one team over 30 but 9 teams with 25 or more. The league that gave us Barnaby, Laraque, Brashear and Worrell were just much more ready to move away from it. Keeping in mind though that the Quebec based LNAH where many pros move on to when their NHL/AHL days are over is arguably the most violent hockey league in the world and it's been that way for quite a while and it's a league that usually draws large numbers of fans.
RempireStateBuilding
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They need to start making the fines actually hurt. $5k when these guys are making 7 figures doesn't make any of these guys blink. Make it a high 5 figure fine from the get-go (say $75k) and maybe they'll start thinking a little harder before taking a run at someone.
Imagine Marchand/Cooke/Wilson getting 20-40 game suspensions+racking up a couple hundred thousand in fines in their hayday? If only. But the NHL seems to not understand that they are the ones that created these rules, and are the ones that can change them to legitimately crack down on the behavior they claim to want to crack down on.
I understand the idea behind wanting to stop literal children from fighting/getting seriously hurt. I don't think it's going to stop them from fighting at higher levels if they're really intent on doing it, or they will just go through another league. But the NHL are (mostly) grown men, and fighting has been part of the sport for(mostly)ever. I don't think it's quite as close to being on the way out in the NHL. They have to stop pretending that all the cheap shots and shit were what made the game fun/interesting back in the day, though.
IIRC the fine amounts are actually something that's agreed upon in the CBA. So, it would have to be re-negotiated
RempireStateBuilding
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Yea, that's what I'm seeing from some cursory searches too. So it is what it is then.
Amazing Kreiderman
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IT'S THAT TIME. 5 PM BECOMES COLLEGE FREE AGENT DAYM RANGERS PLEASE SIGN SOME CENTER AND RW DEPTH
Intrigued by Farinacci, Wise and O'Brien
- Sep 1, 2010
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Doubtful NYR sign more than 1
Especially with rookie pro forwards Othmann, Berard, Korczak, Edstrom, Sykora already likely Pack-bound
My simple minded gut suspects OBrien and the Drury BU connection
[ haha just noticed the Wise BU connection - some seasons before OSU - too]
Got 5 spots available. Could sign 2 if they choose too. I can see 2 of them being signed. Maybe Rangers take a chance and give one of them an AHL deal that turns in to NHL deal if he reaches certain bonus clauses. Can the Rangers have a singing like that where say AHL player scores 15 goals it turns into NHL ELC for the following season??
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don't think there can be formal/enforceable link from AHL to NHL deal.
Probably always the risk of being 'Marchessault'd' when signing promising guy to AHL deal
Makes sense.
I have a question and this always bothered me, why waste an NHL contract with a player that has no chance of playing in the NHL like those 28 year old vets like Turner Elson, Anton Blidhl etc. I would rather give those NHL contracts to 22 year old prospects that might make it.
- Sep 1, 2010
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just one guy's set of responses to this point ..
IMHO this is subjective thinking on your part: "player that has no chance of playing in the NHL"
NYR have been very fortunate re injuries in last ~ten years,
but look at Colorado and Caps last season, Flyers 2 or 3 back
- numerous regulars at multiple positions out at once, game day rosters full of call ups and fill ins
Also, it's not as easy as you might think to know who will be an NHL player and who will not
- look at Derek Ryan, didn't sniff NHL til almost 29, didn't become NHL regular until turning 30,
now has averaged >70 NHL GP/season over last 7 seasons
Players want NHL deals, even if anticipate mostly playing AHL, not just for the possibility of joining the big club,
but for better pay, and benefits, and service times.
NHL teams want vets to stabilize and lead their affiliates.
The best of those have market value meriting NHL contract, either 1-way or with notable AHL salary
Also, teams don't want too many prospects at the same stage in their contracts,
then all at the same time, many guys become RFAs and/or Waivers Required
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eco's bones
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I don't see fighting disappearing altogether. When it declines it just finds another level. But really it's like saying hard hits will go away or slew footing. Something happens that's not right and a player goes off. That kind of thing is always going to happen. It'll happen even in the Q a bit this year. Occasionally someone will go after someone just because he or a teammate has been done dirty.
The Crypto Guy
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Agreed. And just because they “banned” it in the QJMHL, doesnt mean it wont happen. All it is, is a game misconduct. So the player just gets kicked out that game. It will deter it a bit, but not completely.
There's always competition for the higher-end AHL guys and sometimes you need to offer them an NHL contract, which if nothing else entitles you to the terms/perks/protections/etc. of the NHL CBA rather than the PHPA/AHL agreement.
I get that guys like Elson, Riley Nash, Mac Hollowell, and so forth, are not likely to contribute much if anything to the Rangers, but they'll all play important roles in Hartford which in turn is a boost to the development of our own prospects that are down there. We could sign 3 or 4 NCAA free agents but the likelihood is that a couple of them end up AHL/ECHL tweeners or outright ECHL guys, and then we hope we have maybe one guy who can legitimately contribute in the AHL. That doesn't help us much.
I'm all for stocking the cupboards with prospects, but the vast majority of those unsigned NCAA guys just aren't good prospects. Honestly, the UDFA pool is a better place to look that the drafted but unsigned guys, where in the latter case a team has already invested in the player but decided after several years of watching him that the player wasn't worth a contract. The interesting drafted/unsigned guys are ones like Hayes or Vesey that have decided they do not want to sign and instead become UFAs.
In any event, the Rangers have space to sign a couple of players if they wanted to. We're usually one of the more active teams when it comes to UDFAs, and we're almost always in on the big-name drafted/unsigned guys, but this crop doesn't have a ton of interesting players.
There are suspensions for being the instigator and being the "aggressor" in the fight, which can be automatic, and there are automatic suspensions if you fight more than once. There will be a handful of fights no doubt but the league is serious about getting rid of fighting and this will pretty much kill it in the Q.
"Any player found to have instigated the fight will also receive an automatic one-game suspension.
The person declared to be the aggressor during the fight will receive a minimum of two automatic games of suspension.
In addition to the game misconduct, an automatic game suspension is imposed starting with the player's 2nd fight of the season. This suspension is in addition to the sanctions described in the preceding paragraphs."
I don't fully understand the difference between being the instigator and the aggressor but that makes it sound like you could very easily be suspended three games automatically for your first fight.
eco's bones
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AHL is a tough league and no team is going to do well with just prospects on ELC's and developing prospects on teams that win more than lose is a lot better than teams that lose more than win. That's one reason why NHL teams want veteran guys on their AHL teams. Old pros that have been around and know what it takes to win. Most forward prospects coming into the AHL do not score a lot. Most prospect defensemen coming into the AHL struggle with their defensive games. As well acclimating players to the pro game....to a new city or culture ( particularly if they're European) is important. Veteran players bring a sense of stability to an organization. Having someone to go to is a very big deal for first and second year players. Even 20 year olds coming out of the CHL need that stability, knowledge of the ins and outs of living on their own for the first time to fall back on.
I heard Chris Peters earlier this year say that the crop of undrafted NCAA players this year was not very strong. Not that I would be in the know but I heard no rumors this year of Rangers being after any of these players. Several rumors in the past.
Teams also don't want to sign guys who are likely to be ECHL players to NHL contracts and tie up one of the fifty contracts for 2-3 years. The Rangers don't need to have more Jake Elmers who take up a contract for 3 years and can't make it even to the AHL.
Like you guys have said above, this class of unsigned drafted college FAs isnt very inspiring. The big NCAA fish this year was Ryan McAllister. Unfortunately Florida won that bid. He was an UDFA rather than a drafted player who's rights were expiring, like the above players. Very few notable UDFAs remaining. The ship has sailed for many, most of them are either signed already or committed to staying in school. I'm sure guys like TJ Hughes and Collin Graf recieved NHL interest this summer. The flipside to that is there's a handful of players that are trending toward being really solid UDFA targets in the following couple of years.
You could always steal guys on AHL deals too
You could always steal guys on AHL deals too
This makes sense to me with respect to Hughes and Ciccolini as I read that both had graduated from Northeastern and Michigan respectively, and transferred to new schools where they would be pursuing graduate degrees. It didn't make sense that we'd still hold their rights, even with the COVID year thing.
Kjellberg I can at least kind of understand.
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