Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 5

[T REX]

Who has JBB drafted and developed that has become a top 6 player? Dmen?

Anyone?

 

[Felonious Python]

I think we’re done for now. We’ll enter training camp with a lot of players competing for forward spots.

Atkinson, Goncalves, Gauthier, Ylonen, Geekie, Groshev are all possibilities for the 2nd line. If two of those guys perform well we could even push Sheary down.

If that doesn’t work, make a trade in season. Waiting until the trade deadline may be too late.

Ylonen going from 8 pts in 59 games with Montreal to our second line would be quite the glow up.

 

[DFC]

I don't know if we have a single viable forward prospect ready to make the jump outside of Goncalves. If there is any one consistency in the Jon Cooper era other than defenders not playing on their off hand, it's the near refusal to develop prospects at the NHL level. In 10 years we developed Point and Sergachev without some 150 games and 2 years of AHL time. Like thats it. Maybe Killorn too. If the Lightning have a role in mind for you and you don't meet it, you either get traded or turned into another ABB or Slater Koekkoek. For Goncalves' sake he better hope they see a career 4th liner and they don't yeet him back to Syracuse if he plays like one in his *checks* 3rd career game onwards

Our development system has become the blueprint for the rest of the league. We borrowed it from the early 2000s Wings.

The problem isn't that we are developing guys in the AHL for too long. That led to cups. The problem is we no longer have talented players to develop. None of these guys are knocking at the door the way guys were in the years past.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I don't know if we have a single viable forward prospect ready to make the jump outside of Goncalves. If there is any one consistency in the Jon Cooper era other than defenders not playing on their off hand, it's the near refusal to develop prospects at the NHL level. In 10 years we developed Point and Sergachev without some 150 games and 2 years of AHL time. Like thats it. Maybe Killorn too. If the Lightning have a role in mind for you and you don't meet it, you either get traded or turned into another ABB or Slater Koekkoek. For Goncalves' sake he better hope they see a career 4th liner and they don't yeet him back to Syracuse if he plays like one in his *checks* 3rd career game onwards

Duke, considering his skating has improved, is definitely a viable forward prospect. His ability to play up and down the lineup is a huge asset. I've considered him to be the long term Killorn replacement, fill that type of void in the lineup.

Howard is viable, but still needs work in the NCAA. His game is weird in that he doesn't meet the eye test in many games but he finds ways to get it done offensively on a pretty consistent basis. Worried though he's a AAAA type.

Gauthier should be a decent 3C at minimum, but that's still a couple years away.

Interested to see what Huuhtanen can do in Syracuse. Proven everyone wrong since being Mr Irrelevant in 2021, really good in the Dub for a year and then pretty damn solid in Liiga for the past 2 years.

Geekie should get some games this year in the NHL, but he needs ~1 year in Syracuse to get fully acclimated.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Ylonen going from 8 pts in 59 games with Montreal to our second line would be quite the glow up.

No doubt, it’s a lottery ticket. But you don’t know what you have until the numbers are called.

 

[Felonious Python]

It's hard to envision a scenario where a team takes on Laine's full AAV. Columbus will have to retain salary to make this move work. But with his age, maybe the Blue Jackets can get a second-round pick, if not a first-round selection, in moving him.

The Carolina Hurricanes were among those interested clubs. Portzline noted they made an offer for Laine at the draft, pointing out they have sufficient cap space (over $11 million) to take on Laine's full salary.

 

[These Are The Days]

Duke, considering his skating has improved, is definitely a viable forward prospect. His ability to play up and down the lineup is a huge asset. I've considered him to be the long term Killorn replacement, fill that type of void in the lineup.

Howard is viable, but still needs work in the NCAA. His game is weird in that he doesn't meet the eye test in many games but he finds ways to get it done offensively on a pretty consistent basis. Worried though he's a AAAA type.

Gauthier should be a decent 3C at minimum, but that's still a couple years away.

Interested to see what Huuhtanen can do in Syracuse. Proven everyone wrong since being Mr Irrelevant in 2021, really good in the Dub for a year and then pretty damn solid in Liiga for the past 2 years.

Geekie should get some games this year in the NHL, but he needs ~1 year in Syracuse to get fully acclimated.

I mean yes but I don't they aren't gonna be ready this year. I would love to be wrong and remember to go back to this post doing so

 

[Outl4w]

We need to move out sheary regardless of bringing a real top 6/9 forward. Bring some competition and hustle in thr line up from the ahl and prospects.

 

[Peacefool]

We need to move out sheary regardless of bringing a real top 6/9 foeward. Bring some competition and hustle in thr line up from the ahl and prospects.

JBB on his press conference after loosing at 1st round told pretty clear that he is accounting on SHeary, so I dont think he will be moved

 

[Peacefool]

Ok we gonna trade Perbix, Sheary all 1st rounds untill 2043, Cirelly (I hope Not),like 12 of crunch guys, and some scouts from Europe, for Draisaitl and than we gon have legit 2c and Cirelly will be 3c and we will get like 3 cups again

 

[These Are The Days]

Our development system has become the blueprint for the rest of the league. We borrowed it from the early 2000s Wings.

The problem isn't that we are developing guys in the AHL for too long. That led to cups. The problem is we no longer have talented players to develop. None of these guys are knocking at the door the way guys were in the years past.

I'm inclined to agree with that. None of our guys seem to have taken any sort of step towards being counted as noticeable or even noteworthy. A lot of them are just too old to play anywhere else but the AHL or whatever league they came out of. The development path I mentioned makes it all the less likely we see any of those names before their time. Who knows? Maybe we will be surprised. But I'm not betting on it.

 

[DFC]

I'm inclined to agree with that. None of our guys seem to have taken any sort of step towards being counted as noticeable or even noteworthy. A lot of them are just too old to play anywhere else but the AHL or whatever league they came out of. The development path I mentioned makes it all the less likely we see any of those names before their time. Who knows? Maybe we will be surprised. But I'm not betting on it.

We had a good run based on identifying late bloomers and developing them for years, teaching them how to win in Syracuse/Norfolk. Almost all of our heyday was made of rookies who came up 22 or 23. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Every once in a while a Kucherov or Point force their way onto the team, but those are two of the best players on planet earth. When you have one of those in the system, you know it. I don't think anyone knew just HOW good either would be, but we could see them taking huge leaps where other players take baby steps.

 

[Zwui21]

JBB on his press conference after loosing at 1st round told pretty clear that he is accounting on SHeary, so I dont think he will be moved

He also said that our top 4D would include Sergachev. With him, statements at the press conference are mostly a PR stunt. He also made it clear multiple times: if an opportunity presents itself to increase the teams chances of winning another Stanley Cup, he'll take it.

Personally I doubt he made all those (great) moves only to leave a hole at 2RW. He's definitely working on something now that Moser has been re-signed, but we'll have to wait and see if something viable for us comes out of it.

 

[Todd1a]

Been saying this for 3 years now



Yeah Trotz said they were looking to shed salary and since we were offering a pick it made sense for everyone.

Remember after the 2020 cup win the rumor was the lightning had 4 untouchable players point, vasy, Kucherov and Hedman and all others were on the table to move out

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Our development system has become the blueprint for the rest of the league. We borrowed it from the early 2000s Wings.

The problem isn't that we are developing guys in the AHL for too long. That led to cups. The problem is we no longer have talented players to develop. None of these guys are knocking at the door the way guys were in the years past.

Something interesting I keep hearing across the league/hockey world is "The NHL has become a young man's league", which seems to be contrary to a trend I've noticed since COVID hit: Coaches aren't trusting of most non elite tier prospects, would rather play veterans. With improvements in training and medicine, veterans are aging better, meaning slower decline & thus less need for prospects to come up. Teams continue to address needs via trades and free agency, as opposed to letting (uncertain) help come up from their prospect pool.

The NHL isn't as young as people think it is. And certainly the Cup winners aren't very young teams. Only a handful of teams have gone full youth movement over the past couple years. So we're not alone with not playing many u23 guys.

Who has JBB drafted and developed that has become a top 6 player? Dmen?

Anyone?

BriseBois only has much input in the 1st rounders and maybe 2nd rounders if we don't have a pick. After that it's all amateur scouts.

 

[DFC]

Something interesting I keep hearing across the league/hockey world is "The NHL has become a young man's league", which seems to be contrary to a trend I've noticed since COVID hit: Coaches aren't trusting of most non elite tier prospects, would rather play veterans. With improvements in training and medicine, veterans are aging better, meaning slower decline & thus less need for prospects to come up. Teams continue to address needs via trades and free agency, as opposed to letting (uncertain) help come up from their prospect pool.

The NHL isn't as young as people think it is. And certainly the Cup winners aren't very young teams. Only a handful of teams have gone full youth movement over the past couple years. So we're not alone with not playing many u23 guys.


BriseBois only has much input in the 1st rounders and maybe 2nd rounders if we don't have a pick. After that it's all amateur scouts.

I think they started saying that after thr red line was removed because the drastic change in speed all but retired a lot of the old guard.

I find this generation is aging a lot better, and it takes a certain amount of maturity to win. Most guys might put up their best regular season numbers at 22ish, but the star players of cup winning teams tend to be over 25, closer to 30.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I think they started saying that after thr red line was removed because the drastic change in speed all but retired a lot of the old guard.

I find this generation is aging a lot better, and it takes a certain amount of maturity to win. Most guys might put up their best regular season numbers at 22ish, but the star players of cup winning teams tend to be over 25, closer to 30.

COVID also has affected all of the prospects drafted from 2018-present, and it affected kids who are draft eligible for years to come. Minor hockey was shut down throughout Canada, junior hockey was full of stops and starts across the world. Training and development weren't normal. Some players lost a year of development (ex: Shane Wright), some were rushed too quickly up levels (ex: Jamie Drysdale). Interested to see how much worse some of the recent drafts will look due to the pandemic.

 

[T REX]

Something interesting I keep hearing across the league/hockey world is "The NHL has become a young man's league", which seems to be contrary to a trend I've noticed since COVID hit: Coaches aren't trusting of most non elite tier prospects, would rather play veterans. With improvements in training and medicine, veterans are aging better, meaning slower decline & thus less need for prospects to come up. Teams continue to address needs via trades and free agency, as opposed to letting (uncertain) help come up from their prospect pool.

The NHL isn't as young as people think it is. And certainly the Cup winners aren't very young teams. Only a handful of teams have gone full youth movement over the past couple years. So we're not alone with not playing many u23 guys.


BriseBois only has much input in the 1st rounders and maybe 2nd rounders if we don't have a pick. After that it's all amateur scouts.

Is he responsible for hiring and firing them? They haven't been pulling their weight. he is in charge. He did great with Yzerman's riches. Not so much since he burned through them. They will be lucky to be a WC this year.

When do we start blaming JBB?

 

[These Are The Days]

Is he responsible for hiring and firing them? They haven't been pulling their weight. he is in charge. He did great with Yzerman's riches. Not so much since he burned through them. They will be lucky to be a WC this year.

When do we start blaming JBB?

I'm ready to start blaming now. If our roster continues to under perform I'm gonna hit the fan. We let a 40 goal scorer walk away for free. Free. If Coop goes out there and basically rolls the same shit we've been seeing for the last 2 years I'm gonna hit the fan. We basically reduxed the Guy Boucher era by over using the same strategies over and over night after night long after the league has us figured out. Do something different dude. Whiteboards have erasers.

 

[ccman68]

Who has JBB drafted and developed that has become a top 6 player? Dmen?

Anyone?

the last time we drafted a top 6 forward/top4D was Cirelli in 2015. most people here consider him a third liner so maybe we need to go a whole 10 years to when we drafted Point way before JBB was the gm. maybe it’s just that we haven’t had very many high draft picks? the later rounds are all a crapshoot and isn’t really the gm’s job anyways so idk what it has to do with JBB

 

[Rschmitz]

Remember after the 2020 cup win the rumor was the lightning had 4 untouchable players point, vasy, Kucherov and Hedman and all others were on the table to move out

Yep, that was when it happened

 

[T REX]

the last time we drafted a top 6 forward/top4D was Cirelli in 2015. most people here consider him a third liner so maybe we need to go a whole 10 years to when we drafted Point way before JBB was the gm. maybe it’s just that we haven’t had very many high draft picks? the later rounds are all a crapshoot and isn’t really the gm’s job anyways so idk what it has to do with JBB

Just more excuses. Awesome.

 

[Todd1a]

This site isn’t too bad

https://capwages.com/teams/tampa_bay_lightning

 

[LightningStrikes]

This site isn’t too bad

https://capwages.com/teams/tampa_bay_lightning

Yep, I posted it in the Around the NHL thread. It looks like a 1:1 copy of CapFriendly but is missing some features. I’m sure they’ll be implemented later - provided they don’t get sued or bought as well or something.

CF also broke minor signings at times or had more detail on contract structures than what insiders and teams provided. Don’t be looking for that on CW since the Caps also bought the entire CF staff (and their connections) from what I understand.

 

[Lightning1995]

Personally I’m excited to see what this team can do with so many new faces and a healthy Vassy. I think this is the roster along with 2 AHL call ups, probably Lilleberg and Goncalves. Defense should be better and 5v5 game should improve. Will miss Stammer but this is the team.

We will accrue cap space and try to deal for a top 6 forward at the deadline.