Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

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DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
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Who are the top RFA on defense this summer? That should be a top priority for the retool. Move some pieces, w.e just get D depth that isn't a rotating door of scrub 6/7 dman
We don't have assets for compensation if that's what you are thinking? But top RFA Defenseman this year are:

Hronek
Jokiharu
Lindgren
Brannstrom
Durzi
Liljegren
Stanley
Mahura
Lundkvist
Valimaki
Barron

Won't get any of them unless we make a trade for rights, but I doubt we have any assets worthy of grabbing any of them.
 

Lightning1995

Registered User
May 16, 2016
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The mistakes are piling up on JBB. He went and got some pieces to help a loaded team. It worked and he deserves some credit for that, augmenting a roster built by Stevie Y.

Since then it’s been one miss after another outside of Hagel. He’s over paid for players that are underperforming. If he doesn’t make the Jeanot trade the Lightning have the assets for Hanifin.
 
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Lightning1995

Registered User
May 16, 2016
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I guess the Verhagee thread was deleted. I’m sure JBB would prefer it that was since his team is Carters bitch. Two game winners JBB. Ouch babe
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
17,015
9,598
Tampa Bay
No reason to write the obituary yet, we've been in this position before. Even 0-3 against Pittsburgh in 2011

I'll go full chicken little if we lose game 3 at home though, just too big a hole to overcome. Could have won this game, more frustrating than anything, but not something I feel like being a defeatist about. Just gotta play our best game of the season.
 

The Gongshow

Fire JBB
Jul 17, 2014
26,182
8,689
Toronto
The mistakes are piling up on JBB. He went and got some pieces to help a loaded team. It worked and he deserves some credit for that, augmenting a roster built by Stevie Y.

Since then it’s been one miss after another outside of Hagel. He’s over paid for players that are underperforming. If he doesn’t make the Jeanot trade the Lightning have the assets for Hanifin.
JBB needs to be canned. He doesn't know how to retool a team or even create a cup contender. He took a cup contender and pushed them over the edge to win. Since then he's strapped them at the cap woth bad contracts and let important peices leave while bringing in way too much deadweight. His time here needs to end so a new GM with a new vision can come in and properly retool this team. JBB hasn't proven to be a good GM, just a lucky one being handed such a loaded team to begin with.

A new voice at headcoach and a new system could also bring a new spark to the team.
 

Lightning1995

Registered User
May 16, 2016
4,078
1,611
JBB needs to be canned. He doesn't know how to retool a team or even create a cup contender. He took a cup contender and pushed them over the edge to win. Since then he's strapped them at the cap woth bad contracts and let important peices leave while bringing in way too much deadweight. His time here needs to end so a new GM with a new vision can come in and properly retool this team. JBB hasn't proven to be a good GM, just a lucky one being handed such a loaded team to begin with.

A new voice at headcoach and a new system could also bring a new spark to the team.
For me it’s one or the other and I have trouble blaming Coop
 
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The Gongshow

Fire JBB
Jul 17, 2014
26,182
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Toronto
For me it’s one or the other and I have trouble blaming Coop
I feel the same. I just think there comes a time when the coach takes the blame and they start there with a hopeful fix first. Just like the NFL. Coaches take the brunt of the blame for the GMs terrible actions.

Coop will unfortunately take the brunt of JBB's blunders. JBB said here's an AHL team, go and win. Coop can only do so much.

But sometimes a new coach can bring new life to a team. New system wouldn't hurt as Coops shell just doesn't work for this team....because of its lack of talent....BECAUSE OF JBB.
 

Soul Assumption

Registered User
Jul 18, 2022
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Maroon and Perry were so good against Toronto last year. JBB traded them for Jeannot+Sheary who lost their spots to the AHLers. Now bottom doesn't exist
 
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The Gongshow

Fire JBB
Jul 17, 2014
26,182
8,689
Toronto
Notable leaves since JBB toon over

Verhaghe
Killorn
Palat
Maroon
Perry
McDonagh
Colton
Schenn
Bogosian
Coleman
Goodrow
Gourde

Players to come in
Hagel (fantastic. Credit where its due)
Paul (okay)
Dehaan
Cole
Sheary
Jeannot
Dumba
Duclair

You're not gonna keep everyone but man...way to chose the wrong ones. Either capitalize on gaining assets and moving players, don't give such terrible contracts that hurt the team and don't make poor trades that strip you of assets to aquire better talent or move deadweight.
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
3,553
3,278
Central Ohio
Notable leaves since JBB toon over

Verhaghe
Killorn
Palat
Maroon
Perry
McDonagh
Colton
Schenn
Bogosian
Coleman
Goodrow
Gourde

Players to come in
Hagel (fantastic. Credit where its due)
Paul (okay)
Dehaan
Cole
Sheary
Jeannot
Dumba
Duclair

You're not gonna keep everyone but man...way to chose the wrong ones. Either capitalize on gaining assets and moving players, don't give such terrible contracts that hurt the team and don't make poor trades that strip you of assets to aquire better talent or move deadweight.
In hindsight, probably should have just brought Cole back instead of letting him walk and then panicking and signing De Haan. Shame Cole took penalties and had D-zone miscues at the worst times possible, cause otherwise, he was serviceable.

Colton trade was necessary for cap reasons but should have just kept him if BriseBois was going to sign Sheary to that AAV and term. Excited to see if Ethan Gauthier turns into anything, but have a bad feeling he'll just be an underwhelming bottom 6er from the Q per usual
 
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EmptyNetAssassin

Registered User
Dec 16, 2011
4,035
2,537
FL
We don't have assets for compensation if that's what you are thinking? But top RFA Defenseman this year are:

Hronek
Jokiharu
Lindgren
Brannstrom
Durzi
Liljegren
Stanley
Mahura
Lundkvist
Valimaki
Barron

Won't get any of them unless we make a trade for rights, but I doubt we have any assets worthy of grabbing any of them.
I thoiught he had an elite power forward that can fight in Jeannot to dangle as bait.
 

LTIR Trickery

Plz stop pucks
Jun 27, 2007
23,947
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Scrip Club
The mistakes are piling up on JBB. He went and got some pieces to help a loaded team. It worked and he deserves some credit for that, augmenting a roster built by Stevie Y.

Since then it’s been one miss after another outside of Hagel. He’s over paid for players that are underperforming. If he doesn’t make the Jeanot trade the Lightning have the assets for Hanifin.
I get we're unhappy right now, with both individual players and the team as a whole, but don't be ridiculous. Coleman? Goodrow? Shattenkirk? Patty? Schenn? Bogo? JBB made some fantastic signings, some might argue a couple of them are no brainers or fell into his lap (Shattenkirk), but to say that its one miss after another is a joke.
 

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
7,533
845
I guess the Verhagee thread was deleted. I’m sure JBB would prefer it that was since his team is Carters bitch. Two game winners JBB. Ouch babe
Carter now has 5 OT game winning goals. Now that points to having been in Those situations but the guy has finish. When one looks south it’s amazing that both Carter and Reinhardt were both given up on by there teams.
 

T REX

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
12,203
9,783
Notable leaves since JBB toon over

Verhaghe
Killorn
Palat
Maroon
Perry
McDonagh
Colton
Schenn
Bogosian
Coleman
Goodrow
Gourde

Players to come in
Hagel (fantastic. Credit where its due)
Paul (okay)
Dehaan
Cole
Sheary
Jeannot
Dumba
Duclair

You're not gonna keep everyone but man...way to chose the wrong ones. Either capitalize on gaining assets and moving players, don't give such terrible contracts that hurt the team and don't make poor trades that strip you of assets to aquire better talent or move deadweight.
100% JBB has wrecked the roster. We couldn't 't find a million to keep the scoring title guy Verghagae(who Yzerman brilliantly traded for)? JBB made some nice tweaks to a HOF roster and now has turned us into the Penguins. Honeymoon is over. Time for major changes or we'll just be out in the 1st round for the nest few yrs. SOunds like fun. Cooper's done here as well. Change is GOOD.

Anyone think Cirelli is earning his pay? Seems like he overpaid a lot recently too. SMDH
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
3,553
3,278
Central Ohio
100% JBB has wrecked the roster. We couldn't 't find a million to keep the scoring title guy Verghagae(who Yzerman brilliantly traded for)? JBB made some nice tweaks to a HOF roster and now has turned us into the Penguins. Honeymoon is over. Time for major changes or we'll just be out in the 1st round for the nest few yrs. SOunds like fun. Cooper's done here as well. Change is GOOD.
I'm not a gambling man, but putting a dime on Lightning to miss the 2025 Playoffs would be a solid bet IMHO.
 

T REX

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
12,203
9,783
I'm not a gambling man, but putting a dime on Lightning to miss the 2025 Playoffs would be a solid bet IMHO.
I didn't want to say but I agree. VASY would have to play out of his mind. Kuch isn't getting 140+ next yr. And if he does he'll expend so much energy he'll be useless for the playoffs again
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
3,553
3,278
Central Ohio
Notable leaves since JBB toon over

Verhaghe
Killorn
Palat
Maroon
Perry
McDonagh
Colton
Schenn
Bogosian
Coleman
Goodrow
Gourde

Players to come in
Hagel (fantastic. Credit where its due)
Paul (okay)
Dehaan
Cole
Sheary
Jeannot
Dumba
Duclair

You're not gonna keep everyone but man...way to chose the wrong ones. Either capitalize on gaining assets and moving players, don't give such terrible contracts that hurt the team and don't make poor trades that strip you of assets to aquire better talent or move deadweight.
I know Flat Cap and younger players demanding raises, but no excuse to lose all of Killorn, Palat, Coleman, Goodrow, Gourde, Colton, McDonagh. Sure, age was a factor on many, but I thought the goal was to win more Cups. Hard to balance transitioning the roster to younger players and going all in to win Cups.

Hagel and Paul (most of the time) are the only positive additions to replace subtractions. Motte and Glendening are likely gone, Duclair is a rental.

The trend is Pittsburgh and Washington. Miss some years, first round exits other years. Much like watching a Tampa game, they'll coast the first 75% of the year and then try for a month and see where he end up!
At least we're not the Islanders or the last generation's Sharks with no Cups and no prospect pool.
 

The Gongshow

Fire JBB
Jul 17, 2014
26,182
8,689
Toronto
I know Flat Cap and younger players demanding raises, but no excuse to lose all of Killorn, Palat, Coleman, Goodrow, Gourde, Colton, McDonagh. Sure, age was a factor on many, but I thought the goal was to win more Cups. Hard to balance transitioning the roster to younger players and going all in to win Cups.

Hagel and Paul (most of the time) are the only positive additions to replace subtractions. Motte and Glendening are likely gone, Duclair is a rental.
Yeah, I agree. There's no perfect world they keep everyone that's just reality of the game. But JBB moved the wrong guys. This team is voiceless now and lost so much leadership and grit. It doesn't help he HAD to move guys because of the terrible contracts he did give out.

He mismanaged the team pretty badly and this is where we are at. Our game changers either left or aren't doing anything. Look at Maroon, Coleman and McDonagh still making positive impacts, just as an example
 
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Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
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Central Ohio
Yeah, I agree. There's no perfect world they keep everyone that's just reality of the game. But JBB moved the wrong guys. This team is voiceless now and lost so much leadership and grit. It doesn't help he HAD to move guys because of the terrible contracts he did give out.

He mismanaged the team pretty badly and this is where we are at. Our game changers either left or aren't doing anything. Look at Maroon, Coleman and McDonagh still making positive impacts, just as an example
I know he was moved pre-Cups, but losing Miller hurts more. People never knew he'd pop off and be elite for this long, but would have been nice to have that scoring.

Again, first world extremely privileged problems that we have, but at least they won Cups. Flyers, Rangers, Senators, Canucks, Sharks, all had great teams in the 21st Century and came out with egg on their face.
 

JTBF81

Registered User
Dec 6, 2018
4,424
2,366
Tampa, FL.
There wasn't going to be room for most of the guys lost because of the exp draft and the flat cap. Even if Serg, Cernak and Cirelli had been paid a little less, there was no room for McD, and maybe, with other moves, they could've kept one of Palat/Killorn(although neither has been that impressive since leaving Tampa). Coleman and Goodrow were cap casualties as each took considerably higher than what Tampa could offer, and Gourde was lost, unfortunately, to expansion. Keeping Colton instead of Jeannot+Sheary seems like something that should've been done as well. JBB has definitely made some blunders, but with more than a.few of these losses, the lack of cap space and a new NHL team coming in gave him few good options.
 

Hoek

Legendary Poster A
May 12, 2003
11,630
9,181
Tampa, FL
Re: Verhaeghe you have to realize he also has to sign the deal and want to stay, unless you wanted to risk arbitration forcing us to sign him for even more than we could afford. You can blame Cooper as much as JBB for that for giving him the sense he wouldn't have a good chance of breaking into the top 6 scoring role here.
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
3,553
3,278
Central Ohio
Re: Verhaeghe you have to realize he also has to sign the deal and want to stay, unless you wanted to risk arbitration forcing us to sign him for even more than we could afford. You can blame Cooper as much as JBB for that for giving him the sense he wouldn't have a good chance of breaking into the top 6 scoring role here.
Why not just trade his RFA rights to a rebuilding and/or irrelevant Western Conference team (Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Arizona) at the time so there would be little chance of him terrorizing you every year? Or did they try to do that and no one wanted him? Credit to Panthers pro scouts for sure for doing their homework.
 

Hoek

Legendary Poster A
May 12, 2003
11,630
9,181
Tampa, FL
Why not just trade his RFA rights to a rebuilding and/or irrelevant Western Conference team (Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Arizona) at the time so there would be little chance of him terrorizing you every year? Or did they try to do that and no one wanted him? Credit to Panthers pro scouts for sure for doing their homework.
We'll never know but how many teams actually trade assets for some random 4th line 24 year old RFA with 9 goals? They probably would've fancied their chances in UFA just like Florida did and I doubt we were worried about that guy "terrorizing" our elite championship team at the time. At some point you gotta just say it's all just hindsight being 20/20... I'm sure Calgary is still kicking themselves for letting Marty go to this very day and he was 10 times the player Verhaeghe is and literally killed them in the Cup final despite him going as far away as possible from them. And Florida kicked themselves for letting Dan Boyle go to us too, so it goes both ways.
 

These Are The Days

I need about tree fiddy
May 17, 2014
35,320
21,333
Tampa Bay
I get we're unhappy right now, with both individual players and the team as a whole, but don't be ridiculous. Coleman? Goodrow? Shattetonkirk? Patty? Schenn? Bogo? JBB made some fantastic signings, some might argue a couple of them are no brainers or fell into his lap (Shattenkirk), but to say that its one miss after another is a joke.
Came here to say this. We're collectively mad about JFBB's replacements for the guys he traded for to begin with. He hasn't been that great but we're also comically handcuffed by a cap that has refused to go up in like 5 years
 
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