2023-2024 EPL Season

[JeffreyLFC]

Updating my Team of the Season going into the international break. And because I am bored at the airport

Going for 2000 minute minimum to narrow down the field a bit. You don’t have to if you don’t want to

Player of the Season - Virgil Van Dijk
Manager of the Season - Jurgen Klopp

GK Pickford
RB White
CB Saliba
CB Virgil
LB Robinson
CM Rodri
CM Rice
CM Odegaard
RW Saka
LW Foden
ST Watkins

Honest question, do you hate the Spurs or something?
There are no way not one Spurs player is not in the TOTY. For instance Porro>White, Vicario>Pickford and Foden vs Son would be debatable (I also think at this moment Foden is taking over the spot) and Udogie vs Robinson will also spark some debate. I am 100% with you though, Robinson is probably the most underrated LB in the EPL and Udogie is way too inconsistent for me.

 

[Savant]

Honest question, do you hate the Spurs or something?
There are no way not one Spurs player is not in the TOTY. For instance Porro>White, Vicario>Pickford and Foden vs Son would be debatable (I also think at this moment Foden is taking over the spot) and Udogie vs Robinson will also spark some debate. I am 100% with you though, Robinson is probably the most underrated LB in the EPL and Udogie is way too inconsistent for me.

Im not taking Porro over White. At all. White has been great this season and is a big part of why Arsenal are where they are. White offers much better defense, more consistent defense and very similar offensive output. I’m not having it. Pickford (who I am no fan of) is keeping Everton out of the relegation zone, and Everton have a better GA than Tottenham. Pickford is a huge part of it. Robinson much more consistent and has better numbers defensively and offensively.

I do not think Tottenham have been great since November-ish in general. I will say the same thing that I said at the time: they took advantage of an extremely favorable schedule at the beginning of the season and now they are no longer anything special. I think you can make a case for those guys for sure, and some of them would probably be runner up at those spots, but for me, I am taking the group that I’ve picked. But yeah in a nutshell, Tottenham’s defense is too bad for me to put Tottenham defenders in. I thought about Son, but think Foden’s year has been better.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

My TOTS as of today:

Watkins
Saka - Foden - Salah
Rice - Rodri
Udogie - Saliba - Gabriel - Gusto
Vicario

I have to be loyal to my capo and put Gusto in there

The actual answer is Trent who IMO has been so brilliant that idgaf about missed games

 

[Savant]

My TOTS as of today:

Watkins
Saka - Foden - Salah
Rice - Rodri
Udogie - Saliba - Gabriel - Gusto
Vicario

I have to be loyal to my capo and put Gusto in there

Don’t want to be this guy but not having Virgil in the team is wild negligence. Which is nothing against the Arsenal guys, but Virgil been better than both of them and has been pretty much the one constant in the Liverpool team. LFC have been held together with duct tape and Virgil is the biggest reason. And had to do it with a revolving door of partners in the backline. He’s the player of the season in the league

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Yes, VVD is the most important player for LFC and possibly the whole EPL MVP. We saw LFC without VVD when he was injured and LFC crashed. We saw LFC without Salah and they still scored goals. We are seeing LFC without Alisson and they still manage to win.

I think anybody not putting VVD is out of their god damn mind. In fact, he is the only LFC player I expect in the TOTY and if Salah is in, it's because he has an amazing run until the end of the season.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

My TOTS

Striker : Watkins, HM: Haaland
LW : Foden, HM: Son
RW: Saka, HM: Salah
CM1: Rice, HM: Gross
CM2: Luiz, HM: Bernardo Silva
DM: Rodri, HM: Mac Allister
LB: Robinson, HM: Udogie
RB: Porro, HM: White
LCB: VVD, HM: Van de Ven
RCB: Gabriel, HM: Saliba
GK: Vicario, HM: Alisson

Player of the year: VVD

By team:

Arsenal: 3 players + 2 HM
Man City: 2 players + 2 HM
Aston Villa: 2 players
Tottenham: 2 players + 3 HM
Liverpool 1 player + 3 HM
Fulham: 1 player
Brighton: 1 HM

 

[Savant]

Yes, VVD is the most important player for LFC and possibly the whole EPL MVP. We saw LFC without VVD when he was injured and LFC crashed. We saw LFC without Salah and they still scored goals. We are seeing LFC without Alisson and they still manage to win.

I think anybody not putting VVD is out of their god damn mind. In fact, he is the only LFC player I expect in the TOTY and if Salah is in, it's because he has an amazing run until the end of the season.

If he plays 90+ minutes the next three games in a row, Kelleher will have played more minutes in all comps than Alisson this season

 

[hatterson]

Pickford is pretty far down the ranking in terms of shots saved above expected. Everton having a good GA is far more about their defense (and poor finishing from opponents). On average Pickford faces nearly the easiest shots in the league.

The top 3 in that metric right now are Sa, Vicario, and Onana. On a /90 basis, Dubravka and Areola bump ahead of Onana.

 

[Savant]

Pickford is pretty far down the ranking in terms of shots saved above expected. Everton having a good GA is far more about their defense (and poor finishing from opponents). On average Pickford faces nearly the easiest shots in the league.

The top 3 in that metric right now are Sa, Vicario, and Onana. On a /90 basis, Dubravka and Areola bump ahead of Onana.

That’s all fine and good, but any stat that has Onana near the top of it is not convincing me. Don’t think it’s unfair to bring up though

I do not think this has been a great goalie year in general though. Healthy Alisson walks that spot, but here we are. Everton have had a really tough season off the field and still have a Top Four GA. Dyche has always been good for keepers, so burned a spot on T-Rex arms. Just don’t think anyone has been amazing.

 

[hatterson]

That’s all fine and good, but any stat that has Onana near the top of it is not convincing me. Don’t think it’s unfair to bring up though

I do not think this has been a great goalie year in general though. Healthy Alisson walks that spot, but here we are. Everton have had a really tough season off the field and still have a Top Four GA. Dyche has always been good for keepers, so burned a spot on T-Rex arms. Just don’t think anyone has been amazing.

Onana has actually been really good in the league this year. His awfulness was almost exclusively in the CL.

 

[KJS14]

Don’t want to be this guy but not having Virgil in the team is wild negligence. Which is nothing against the Arsenal guys, but Virgil been better than both of them and has been pretty much the one constant in the Liverpool team. LFC have been held together with duct tape and Virgil is the biggest reason. And had to do it with a revolving door of partners in the backline. He’s the player of the season in the league

Yes, VVD is the most important player for LFC and possibly the whole EPL MVP. We saw LFC without VVD when he was injured and LFC crashed. We saw LFC without Salah and they still scored goals. We are seeing LFC without Alisson and they still manage to win.

I think anybody not putting VVD is out of their god damn mind. In fact, he is the only LFC player I expect in the TOTY and if Salah is in, it's because he has an amazing run until the end of the season.

VVD has been great, but it's not a hot take to say Saliba and Gabriel have been better this year. There just happens to be the narrative around Liverpool with Klopp and VVD leading the kids, which isn't wrong, but I don't think he's the player of the year so far.

And I'd actually lean toward saying Gabriel has been the better of our two this year, but that may be because Saliba is so calm at the back that he's less noticeable.

 

[Savant]

VVD has been great, but it's not a hot take to say Saliba and Gabriel have been better this year. There just happens to be the narrative around Liverpool with Klopp and VVD leading the kids, which isn't wrong, but I don't think he's the player of the year so far.

And I'd actually lean toward saying Gabriel has been the better of our two this year, but that may be because Saliba is so calm at the back that he's less noticeable.

It is a hot take to say that.

Which is nothing against the Arsenal guys, Virgil has just been that good. All the individual metrics back that up as well. And Gabriel and Saliba have each other. Virgil has had a revolving door. His season is more impressive, which again is nothing against the Arsenal pair

 

[luiginb]

There's being a homer, and there's using Saliba and van Dijk in the same sentence.

 

[Evilo]

Lol

 

[KJS14]

It is a hot take to say that.

Which is nothing against the Arsenal guys, Virgil has just been that good. All the individual metrics back that up as well. And Gabriel and Saliba have each other. Virgil has had a revolving door. His season is more impressive, which again is nothing against the Arsenal pair

All 3 have been great. The metrics support Saliba being a better defender and passer in the PL this year.

There's being a homer, and there's using Saliba and van Dijk in the same sentence.

Boggles my mind how out of touch you have to be to think Saliba isn't that good.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

If you look beyond just simple GA and into the underlyings, Arsenal's defense is by far the best in the league. The only reason why the GA stat is close is because Saliba and Gabriel don't have Alisson behind them. Not a hot take to have Gabriel in there over VVD. It's close, and I don't care enough to really push on it, but it's definitely not a hot take.

Also holy shit can we give the whole "Klopp and the kids" thing a rest? Liverpool haven't had a single XI in the top 50 youngest in the league this season. Even without touching teams further down the table who are consistently younger (Chelsea, Burnley, Brighton), Arsenal and Spurs are both way more kiddy than Liverpool.

Unfortunately things get sacrificed at the altar of narrative, but Quansah is the same age as Levi Colwill and Bradley the same age as Malo Gusto. Hell, I saw someone lump in Joe f***ing Gomez as one of the "kids" recently. Egads!

 

[luiginb]

The metrics support Saliba being a better defender and passer in the PL this year.

Source: my ass. The metrics HATE Saliba, except one Evilo mentioned a while ago.

 

[luiginb]

Boggles my mind how out of touch you have to be to think Saliba isn't that good.

He is a Premier League defender, he has to be good, but he's closer to Disasi than he is to van Dijk

 

[Savant]

There's being a homer, and there's using Saliba and van Dijk in the same sentence.

Saliba and Gabriel have been great to be fair. But there is zero evidence that they can do what Virgil has done this season.

 

[KJS14]

Source: my ass. The metrics HATE Saliba, except one Evilo mentioned a while ago.

Which metrics exactly?

He is a Premier League defender, he has to be good, but he's closer to Disasi than he is to van Dijk

Enough said. Maybe you should sit this conversation out if that's how distorted your view of Saliba has become...

 

[luiginb]

Which metrics exactly?

You mentioned metrics love Saliba, post them.I already did post mine a while back, use the search function.

 

[Savant]

If you look beyond just simple GA and into the underlyings, Arsenal's defense is by far the best in the league. The only reason why the GA stat is close is because Saliba and Gabriel don't have Alisson behind them. Not a hot take to have Gabriel in there over VVD. It's close, and I don't care enough to really push on it, but it's definitely not a hot take.

Also holy shit can we give the whole "Klopp and the kids" thing a rest? Liverpool haven't had a single XI in the top 50 youngest in the league this season. Even without touching teams further down the table who are consistently younger (Chelsea, Burnley, Brighton), Arsenal and Spurs are both way more kiddy than Liverpool.

Unfortunately things get sacrificed at the altar of narrative, but Quansah is the same age as Levi Colwill and Bradley the same age as Malo Gusto. Hell, I saw someone lump in Joe f***ing Gomez as one of the "kids" recently. Egads!

But Alisson hasn’t been behind there for months.

“Kiddy” in terms of senior games played, not in terms of age. It’s a disingenuous stat that popped up after LFC beat Chelsea for Carabao cup. What LFC technically younger, sure? Compare that to transfer fees and senior appearances of said youth and then see what happens. There is no need to minimize what LFC have done besides sour grapes.

Who has lumped Joe Gomez in with kids?

Gusto played whole Ligue 1 seasons. Colwill played a whole PL season with Brighton. Bradley was at Bolton last year and Quansah was at Bristol. Stop.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I am fine with saying Gusto is still a young player it does not diminish the impact of Conor Bradley

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

My favourite kid is Ivan Toney because he didn't play first division football til he was 25

I think we can be properly impressed with what Klopp is accomplishing without having to delude ourselves into thinking that VVD is running a daycare

 

[Savant]

My favourite kid is Ivan Toney because he didn't play first division football til he was 25

I think we can be properly impressed with what Klopp is accomplishing without having to delude ourselves into thinking that VVD is running a daycare

But Quansah and Bradley are not 25. They are 21 and 20. It’s not a day care, but it’s an extremely disingenuous comparison